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Hi everyone and welcome back to the newest edition of the Solo Queue Tier List "Division Climbers". This week's update includes tons of changes, mainly focused on the Devourer jungle enchantment buff. There's also been a large shift in AP based items, but the effects are a bit more subtle.Check out the full scoop below!
SEASON 5 - PATCH 5.13 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
"Division Climbers"
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
Preface Chatter
Hi everyone and welcome back to the newest edition of the Solo Queue Tier List "Division Climbers". This week's update includes tons of changes, mainly focused on the Devourer jungle enchantment buff. There's also been a large shift in AP based items, but the effects are a bit more subtle.Check out the full scoop below!
As always, don't forget to like the site on Facebook if you haven't already!
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Which one of the following best describes Thresh?
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The purpose of this list is to pick out the champions that when played, will allow you to climb divisions the fastest by winning more games.
Patch 5.13 Summary
Buffs: Ekko, Kayle, Singed, Thresh;
Nerfs: Jayce, Nautilus, Rek'Sai, Xin Zhao;
Tweaks: Kalista;
Nerfs: Jayce, Nautilus, Rek'Sai, Xin Zhao;
Tweaks: Kalista;
Toolkit and Options
Search for a champion:
Updates
- AP Gangplank added and then quickly removed
- Added Tahm Kench to Tier 3 Supports
- 7/13:
- Kha'Zix jungle moved down
- Strongest champion list updated
- 7/14:
- Jungle Jax and Aatrox moved up
- 7/20: Shen support moved to Tier 2
The Tier List
God Tier [Highest Influence]:Mid-Lane Gods: Ahri, Annie, Lux
Jungle Gods: Warwick, Shyvana, Diana, Amumu
AD Gods: Jinx, Ashe, Sivir,
Top Lane Gods: Wukong, Irelia, Riven, Shen
Support Gods: Janna, Nautilus, Blitzcrank
God Tier Rising: Diana (Jungle), Jinx (ADC), Shen (Top), Shyvana (Jungle), Warwick (Jungle)
God Tier Falling: Amumu (Jungle)
God Tier Falling: Amumu (Jungle)
Mid-Lane: Diana, Talon, Ezreal (AP), Malzahar, Twisted Fate, Anivia, Morgana, Xerath, Cho'Gath, Swain, Vladimir, Varus, Brand, Heimerdinger, Viktor, Vel'Koz, Karthus, Wukong, Karma, Kayle, Kennen,
Jungle: Kayle, Xin Zhao, Nidalee, Rek'Sai, Nunu, Udyr, Nocturne, Nautilus, Vi, Shaco, Pantheon, Sion, Wukong, Volibear, Evelynn, Maokai
AD Carry: Vayne, Draven, Graves, Kog'Maw, Kalista, Caitlyn
Top Lane: Tryndamere, Fiora, Malphite, Vladimir, Akali, Nasus, Renekton, Sion, Ryze, Rengar, Heimerdinger, Diana, Cassiopeia, Jarvan IV, Swain, Kayle, Singed, Aatrox, Yasuo, Rumble, Cho'gath, Lulu, Teemo, Rek'Sai, Pantheon
Support: Sona, Leona, Soraka, Lulu, Morgana, Brand, Taric, Nami, Zyra, Thresh
Tier 1 Rising: Ezreal (AP) (Mid), Kayle (Jungle), Malphite (Top), Talon (Mid), Udyr (Jungle), Varus (Mid), Viktor (Mid), Xin Zhao (Jungle), Yasuo (Top)
Tier 1 Falling: Nidalee (Jungle), Nunu (Jungle), Rek'Sai (Jungle), Renekton (Top), Soraka (Support), Vladimir (Top)
Tier 1 Falling: Nidalee (Jungle), Nunu (Jungle), Rek'Sai (Jungle), Renekton (Top), Soraka (Support), Vladimir (Top)
Mid-Lane: Katarina, Ziggs, Orianna, Akali, Lulu (AP), Mordekaiser, Kog'maw (AP), Fizz, Azir, Yasuo, Zed, Nidalee, Galio, Pantheon, Zyra, Cassiopeia, Corki, Lissandra, Ryze, Teemo,
Jungle: Hecarim, Jax, Sejuani, Skarner, Rengar, Gragas, Aatrox, Fiddlesticks, Lee Sin, Fizz, Cho'Gath, Jarvan IV, Kha'Zix, Poppy, Irelia, Zac, Rammus, Malphite, Master Yi, Trundle
AD Carry: Varus, Miss Fortune, Corki, Twitch, Quinn, Tristana, Ezreal, Lucian
Top Lane: Kennen, Hecarim, Gnar, Nautilus, Ekko, Poppy, Xin Zhao, Urgot, Morgana, Maokai, Garen, Gangplank, Mordekaiser, Lissandra, Darius, Karma, Malzahar, Nidalee, Jax, Volibear, Warwick, Zed, Quinn, Trundle, Udyr, Lee Sin, Gragas, Jayce, Galio, Olaf, Yorick, Viktor, Kha'Zix, Vi
Support: Braum, Vel'Koz, Alistar, Bard, Annie, Lux, Shen, Karma, Xerath,
Tier 2 Rising: Alistar (Support), Varus (ADC), Yasuo (Mid)
Tier 2 Falling: Darius (Top), Kha'Zix (Jungle), Vel'Koz (Support), Zed (Mid), Ziggs (Mid)
Tier 2 Falling: Darius (Top), Kha'Zix (Jungle), Vel'Koz (Support), Zed (Mid), Ziggs (Mid)
Mid-Lane: Jayce, Syndra, Ekko, Leblanc, Fiora, Zilean, Master Yi, Gragas, Jarvan IV, Ezreal (AD), Urgot, Sona, Riven, Fiddlesticks, Kha'Zix, Malphite, Tristana, Kassadin, Veigar, Sejuani, Elise
Jungle: Olaf, Ekko, Nasus, Karthus, Gangplank, Fiora, Zed, Malzahar, Leona, Riven, Darius, Shen, Dr. Mundo, Elise, Yorick, Garen, Tryndamere, Alistar
AD Carry: Urgot, Twisted Fate, Kennen
Top Lane: Master Yi, Talon, Fizz, Dr. Mundo, Karthus, Zac, Shyvana, Alistar, Leblanc, Vayne, Nunu, Elise, Taric
Support: Tahm Kench, Zilean, Gragas, Maokai, Volibear, Kennen, Fiddlesticks, Nunu, Kayle, Malphite, Nidalee, Pantheon, Anivia, Teemo, Lee Sin, Gangplank, Veigar
Tier 3 Rising:
Tier 3 Falling: Fiddlesticks (Support)
Tier 3 Falling: Fiddlesticks (Support)
Mid-Lane: Soraka, Janna
Jungle: Yasuo
AD Carry:
Top Lane: Kassadin, Azir, Rammus, Soraka
Support: Orianna, Poppy, Ashe, Elise, Galio, Syndra, Yorick, Lissandra, Leblanc
Tier 4 Rising:
Tier 4 Falling:
Tier 4 Falling:
Instructions and Caveats:
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
- This tier list takes data from ALL players; however, since the majority of players fall in the first three tiers, the majority of data points will come from there.
- Win Rates are important in analyzing each champion's strength, but are not the end-all criteria for any champion's position.
- The creator of this list is diamond, so there may be some personal bias towards higher tier play on certain champions.
Champion Explanations
- Alistar [Tier 2 Support] - Alistar is slightly stronger this patch simply as a result of his nice synergy with the new Spirit Visage as well as the influx of "poke" champions such as Ezreal and Varus into mid lane. Providing some much needed peel and sustain, he works well as long as he can resist the suicidal tendencies that Alistar players are prone to (See: The Lee Sin Effect)
- Darius [Tier 2 Top] - As some of you correctly surmised, Darius' success last patch seems to be majorly linked to his bug. However, he's definitely still a viable champion and worth playing if you like him.
- Ezreal (AP) [Tier 1 Mid] - Oh Ezreal, you were *this* close to God Tier. Surprisingly, his success rate is actually higher at lower Elos than at higher Elos despite the skill gap required to play him. The only thing I can infer from this is that the best way to win against Ezreal is to flash kill him instantly instead of letting him poke you down waiting for the "perfect" moment to engage. On a team with good peel, he definitely looks and feels much stronger than he should, but that seems to be more reliant on the support players rather than Ezreal himself. He does much better with Soraka support than Teemo support.
- Kayle [Tier 1 Jungle] - The new devourer changes are exceptionally good on Kayle, as predicted in the patch notes by Riot. She synergizes insanely well with the enchantment as a primarily on-hit type champion, and is quite strong at the moment.
- Shen [God Tier Top] - Again, you, the Nerfplz community members correctly deduced this one long before I noticed it rising up. Shen's damage level is definitely very good right now, and his last set of buffs a few patches ago were extremely kind to him. His ability to dominate his lane at the moment is strong, allowing him to freely impact other lanes. His late game damage is also very good, allowing him to chunk ADCs to half with his combo.
- Shyvana [God Tier Jungle] - Despite initial mixed reviews on Shyvana with devourer, it seems that the item does indeed synergize incredibly well with her. After getting this item and Blade of the Ruined King, she can build pure tank and still continuously scale up through the game in power. She's finally relevant again.
- Tahm Kench [Tier 3 Support] - I definitely see some potential in the champion, and he has an interesting skillset. However, I think that the weirdness of his skills causes confusion for teammates as how to best utilize his moveset. We'll see how he pans out as time goes on.
- Talon [Tier 1 Mid] - Strangely enough, even though the AP item changes seem to be a buff to everyone AP based and nerf to the AD based champions, assassins like Talon are performing exceptionally well in the current meta. He also happens to be one of mid-lane Ezreal's worst enemies, so there's always that.
- Varus [Tier 1 Mid] - As an AD based poking mid laner with super short cooldowns, he's one of the most difficult champions to itemize for. Against other poking AP based laners, by building an early Aegis on the team, they can mitigate a large chunk of damage. However, against an AD poke champion like Varus, you have to count on your team to hopefully either farm harder or itemize for armor sooner.
- Vel'Koz [Tier 1 Mid] - The price increases on Void Staff, Rylai, and Liandries hurt him quite a bit as a support. As a champion who relies more on Magic Penetration and the Liandry proc rather than pure AP, Vel'Koz does need them before he really gets going. However, the decrease in price on needlessly large rod does shift his item build a bit, but is still beneficial to him.
- Warwick [God Tier Jungle] - If there's anyone who really gained from the devourer changes, it's Warwick. Mildly reminiscent of the old Feral Flare days, Warwick is extremely strong right now. While he's by no means a must pick/ban at the moment, his mid to late game is horrendously strong, despite his non-existent early game impact.
- Xin Zhao [Tier 1 Jungle] - Similar to Warwick, Xin Zhao found the devourer changes greatly in his favor. Even though there was a slight nerf to the AP ratios on his heal, it was basically a cheese build avoidance move. As his standard AD type builder, Xin Zhao is pretty solid right now.
Disclaimer:
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for champion selection.
I'm surprised shen support is still t4
ReplyDeleteLux is really strong as long as she stays out of range
ReplyDeleteI can see him doing decently against some of the lower tier supports, but against the majority of the common ones his range and free stats don't really compare well.
ReplyDeleteYi is ridiculous with devourer, but thats probably only in low elo
ReplyDeleteIt seems like a ton of people have been using devourer, to the point adc's, Vayne especially, have been grabbing it. Even onn hit, attack speed champs are insane with it, with Yi, Shiv, and many more shifting the meta.
ReplyDeleteThe change of ap items though, adds great diversity. I tried many things and having a Tear of the Goddess and Athens means a never ending mana on my spammy champs such as Lux and Ziggs. But regardless, the big AP items total ratio is slightly less. Getting the Echo Zonyas and death cap trinity is faster to build on the first items but slower on the death cap with expensive it is... it's more of an all or nothing rushed item or a 5th or even last built thing. Especially when Void staff got a buff by 20 ap.
Not all the time, mind you. She is still squishy as a flower and tends to explode if you have a stun to make sure she can't flash away or barrier. I love playing her and love how more responsive she is combat. She is still easily camped though but is a bigger bully herself, with still huge mana problems early to mid game.
ReplyDeleteEspecially with Morgana supporting against him.
ReplyDeleteHe can't do anything if she is fast on the black shield and can freely peck the adc and pressure him or ehr.
Great list!
ReplyDeleteI was recently thinking of picking up Jayce to play in top lane. What kind of position do you think he's in now?
He is rather low on here but I was thinking of picking him up since he is good against top lane picks that I struggle against(riven, darius)
Aatrox jg deserves a better position. Really :/
ReplyDeleteI was just about to talk for this, Devourer makes him clear camps super fast and he is imo a better ganker than the top Devourer junglers.
ReplyDeletei expected a rise in malzahar's win rate because of the rod of ages buffs and liandrys buffs
ReplyDeletemeh, he's about the same as he was before this patch from what i have seen
ReplyDeleteBeen playing Tahm A LOT since he came out. The feeling I have is that, the people that I saw playing him, don't do well because they are not used to play the support/tank type of champion, so it's like they don't have the frame of mind that he requires. On the other hand, as my favourite champions use to be of the tank/utility/support kind, I been having a looot of success with him. You just have to know what a good peeling is and you're good to go. It's kinda mesmerizing, being in silver, and knowing what peel is, and seeing gold and up players that just don't get it! Anyway... His laning phase is like this double edged sword, as I feel he is very, very item dependant, so he's not that tanky at first, it's hard to MAKE things happen with him, you usually get your adc the kills when the other laners makes mistakes. But when it's about PREVENTING things from happening, Jesus Christ...I mean, he basically is a fat, walking middle finger to your opponents. Thresh's Q? *chomp* Morgana's Q? *chomp* You get the point...and unlike with, let's say a Janna, or a Thresh you don't even have to make some very skilled move to save your adc from hard situations, you just press fucking W and that's that. And as soon as the game progresses into mid/late, you'll be stacking itens, getting real beefy, and he just turns into this peeling/cheesing monstruosity, I mean, there's so much you can do, with can reposicion your brainless adc or apc, stun and swallow anything trying to get to your backline, etc. And he is a chasing moster too, once you hit the first Q it's like a fucking death sentence. You can continuosly hit Q's, eventually stuning them, get that pesky Sejuani into your belly and throw her at them, etc. And on top of all that, as if it wasn't still good enough, there's the ult. Just put the same pesky Sejuani into your ult, go behind the enemy team, proceed to win the team fight as your enemies run like ants with nowhere left to go. Need that fast rotation from the bot's T2 you just destroyed with your pal to the recently spawned dragon? Suit yourself. Anyway, just sharing my personal experiences with him. For me, even for low elo he can be considered tier 2 AT LEAST. I know is where you'll end up putting him anyway, as he is strong if you know what you're doing and depends a little bit on your teammates. Probably tier 1 at least in the FOTM list though. (sorry for my crappy english, not my first language)
ReplyDeleteShen support doesn't deserve Tier 4, he has about 48% win rate in Platinum+.
ReplyDeleteKalista isn't Tier 1 anymore, she has 44% win rate now. Lowest of all ADC. I don't think she is still gonna be contested as much in competitive anymore after this nerf.
I'm not sure about Rek'Sai, she has 48% win rate now but after every nerf she has got, her win rate always dips down a bit and then rise up to be normal so we'll have to see.
Nautilus top should be higher, his win rate in Plat+ is nearly 52%. Better than Nautilus jungle at least. Probably Tier 1
And I think you should clean this list up a bit, something like Viktor or Malzahar top should be removed. If you add those then you should add Annie top or something like that too.
in higher elo
ReplyDeleteYou can say the same thing about Blitzcrank who is God Tier.
ReplyDeleteShen offers global pressure, sustain for his ADC ( Relic shield and his blade ), decent damage for a support and AOE TAUNT. I think he is more useful than every Tier 3 and most Tier 2 supports.
Kinda hoping on an article about the AP tweaks, and which kind of champs really profit from it.
ReplyDeleteAt the moment I have the feeling that utility mages are doing way better mid-late game then the assassins. I think the sole exception is Ahri.
>Fizz Jung in tier 2 and Jax Jung in tier 3
ReplyDelete>Not tier 1 for both of them at least
Nigga wut? Have you even been paying attention to the Sated changes and how it is affecting people?
Personally, I think these changes to them make them God Tier. The shit they can do alone, especially if they get either their sated early/a few kills in the early game, is monstrous.
you mispositioned shen as tier 1 and god tier....
ReplyDeleteThis may sound abit weird but i feel as though karthus is super strong this patch, seraphs which was a core item for karthus was buffed and the new rylais slow was massive on him as he can chain q easily
ReplyDeleteDamn, the tier 3 TOP Lane list has risen like a dough over the months, years. It's big, I mean.
ReplyDeleteNice, thanks for the new list man!!!! Shen is pretty nice this patch, i played him top-
I think Jayce mid and Shyv top should be moved up to Tier 2. Also, you wrote Mordekaiser twice in tier 2 mid.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure Corki is tier 2? He has escape, mixed damage, he is pretty safe, has trinity power spike and he is viable in this meta. I would say he is tier 1
ReplyDeleteOk, so i called shen tier one-god tier 5-6 patches ago, and i got bashed, look how tables have turned !!!, also hes god tier but in the description it says tier one xD
ReplyDeleteMana costs on his Q and especially his W are insane, also he needs that sheen proc from rockets, also sivir exists now, so does morgana
ReplyDeleteNice :) tables have turned. tides have turned. in your favour. But that was long time ago.
ReplyDeleteFormer shen main, the same rule for vayne which you broke, as long as this list is made for bronze-gold, shen supp will be t3 maximum, same place that vayne belongs too
ReplyDeleteYeah I agree, I think tier 2 is fine for Corki.... pretty much. I'm a corki fan but has some annoying enemies in 5.13.
ReplyDeleteHaha, i have two accounts gawkie and hyrp, hyrp got banned for two weeks (unacceptable behaviour) tho i dont flame and i discussed this here, rip vayne acc, was 5k away from 100k mastery points.
ReplyDeleteim playing on gawkie atm, where shen is, i have like 4 kda in 65 games with him, long time since i played here tho, O well, and yes shen was always strong, solo carry a game vs a full ad team, and a good taunt can turn fights
Offers a dodge-able taunt then what? minimal poke, 2 min ult which is meant for global pressure, if he ults top lane, he has to leave the adc 1 v 2, which makes him have the same problem as bard which everyone cried about, and this list is designed for lower elos, where most of the adcs dont know how to act in a 1 v 2 situation
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand why mordekaiser is mid tier 2 when he's been boasting a higher win rate than almost all of tier 1 BEFORE the itemocalypse buffed both liandry AND rylai, two of his key items. He's sitting at a >54% win rate at the moment in platinum and above, putting him second only to Heimerdinger in terms of win rates top lane. His play rate might not be as high as say Wukong, but 0.98% isn't too low, and his performance top has been consistently high for a very long time now across a number of patches. Imo he should be at least mid tier 1 - if Heimerdinger's consistent performance despite a small playerbase can earn him a spot there, it doesn't make sense for Morde to remain mid tier 2 despite having a win rate eclipsing all but one other top laner.
ReplyDeleteI think udyr deserves to be higher. With the new devourer, it only takes two subsequent attacks to proc phoenix.
ReplyDeleteWorst list ever.
ReplyDeleteKayle Jungler is the new FREE ELO champion.
Master yi is simply SENSELESS.
Malzahar has been sitting in the highest win rate of all champions for TOO LONG , lmao
ReplyDeleteMay be people don´t understand this but, Xin Zhao with 2 AP items and 2 Tanky items plus new devourer is super viable. I think that this isn´t tier god, but is super strong...
ReplyDeleteKalista will be one of the strongest adcs in the game as long as she has her kit, win rate drops for every champion after a nerf, then go back to their normal stats, people just need to realise how she is meant to be played now, for rek'sai, she's still one of the strongest junglers in the game IMO.
ReplyDeleteAnd sorry if i wrote something wrong, English isn't my first language.
While Kahm Tench is low support, I find his top lane works a hell of a lot better. Especially with melee tanks/bruisers being such a big thing lately, his w really hurts. It also smashes when eating a minion and shooting it at them. Plus his natural tankyness and build, plus his e, makes him really hard to kill in a gank. I think you should really give him a look and then place him in the top lane at a ranking you think fits.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if someone mentioned this before, but with a Sated Devourer, Vayne's True Bolts (8% max HP true damage) , procs on every second hit instead of third. This is incredibly powerful *if* Vayne positions properly.
ReplyDeleteshen is listed as GOD tier but in the explenation as tier 1.
ReplyDeleteHe is actually much stronger. His pickup power rose a lot with the buff to Rilay, which allows you to slow for 40% with both his Q and W. They basically buffed every core item for Malz after nerfing Luden.
ReplyDeleteOn the Vel'koz part, I must disagree with you. Maybe those items are more expensive right now, but Rilay's buff alone makes Velkoz a destroying machine. His main weakness always was the reliance on skillshots, and the buff on Rilay's slow power now allows you to slow for 40% with your W (let's remember it's also a 2-charge spell with very low cooldown) allowing your full combo to hit much easier (the 2nd W's hit part specially). He might need more gold to itemize properly, but his build path is much more solid at the moment if you build him Brand-like (Athene/Morello>Rilay>Liandry/Void)
ReplyDeleteI love vel kaz.... big damage. squishy and immobile but just gotta slow enemies and ownage from afar
ReplyDeleteNo trend with respect to Morgana with Rylai's? I expected that a 40% slow on her R (and W, but that is less relevant) would be a buff. Or are people not building it yet
ReplyDeleteikr. plus i think its a buff considering that its 100 more gold on liandried for 30 more ap. thats more dmg than he had before.
ReplyDeletein bronze and silver maybe... but cc is really good and wins games
ReplyDeleteI really didnt understand why he moved down. He got buffed this patch, liandrys is core anyway. He cant abuse rylais like eve and azir can but hey: a buff is a buff isnt it?
ReplyDeleteFixed
ReplyDeleteVayne actually has a 51% win rate in Bronze
ReplyDeleteI don't think Shen is tier 4 support, his taunt and global ultimate are very useful. How do you think? he has some damage and can take lots of damage.
ReplyDeletemmm, just a feeling but Tahm Kench is not so bad... with the correct team can be very strong none?
ReplyDeleteI'm checking out... seems Vel'koz back in game but with champ like Yasuo (here in Tier 2 mid) or Zed (also tier 2) is not easy to play because of the mobility...
ReplyDeleteIs this runeglaive or devourer Diana in god tier?
ReplyDeleteBut she requires solid mechanics, to actually carry rather than being a tank eater, and pretty much every other adc bullies her except for like kog'maw, but if you say she belongs to tier one, must mean im missing something
ReplyDeleteThanks for the reply
Runeglaive
ReplyDeleteDoubt it, because her W is considered bonus damage not on hit, so it wouldnt proc it , but if it has been tested then, ill be more than to happy to play her jungle
ReplyDeleteCould be warrior or cinderhulk since its not specified
ReplyDelete....
In the past, solo carry ADCs were popular because it was possible to do so. Nowadays, with so many backline killers it's more reliant on peel to keep them alive.
ReplyDeleteWhere survivability used to be a highly prized trait with champions like Ezreal and Corki topping the charts, it's switching over to be more of a sheer damage type of role.
I mean yea, it could, but don't try convincing this poor kid to play warrior diana.
ReplyDeleteI was sarcastic, because of his question, devourer diana isnt even a thing, so its only runeglaive because of the logical build, its like asking devourer lee or warrior just because he didnt mention it
ReplyDeleteYea i understand now , its more of raw damage than carry now , thank you for explaining haha
ReplyDeleteits works tested it alrdy
ReplyDeleteit looks a bit weird because one stack is appllied between the 2 attacks but it works:D
ReplyDelete6 patches already and Kassalose is still the trashiest champion in the game. Guess I'd better be waiting for pigs to fly than for him to be buffed.
ReplyDeleteHave you tried on pvp or custom vs bots ? I tried custom and she's a god but i wonder how this works on pvp
ReplyDeleteI'm actually playing platinum 3 ;)
ReplyDeleteIf you have brain, master yi works pretty well :)
dw, you have his lvl 16 powerspike.
ReplyDeleteWhat powerspike? He has the least burst outta any AP assassin, trash bases and the least scaling despite being supposed to have a strong late game. His "unilimted" mobility is completely gated by mana which doesn't let him move so much, and any other assassin with a non-targeted mobility (and even some with targeted) can make a better use of their skills to move as much as they need in engage and escape, while doing their proper jobs, each having their own niche of effectiveness, except for Kassadin, there is literally not a single reason to pick him over anyone else.
ReplyDeletemove Galio up he counters fotm ap ezreal
ReplyDeleteJust head over to nerfplz.br and you'll get what you need.
ReplyDeleteIt works, someone tried it in a ranked game that I was in...god was it scary
ReplyDeleteLook up Cowsep Cowculations. This is exactly what you're describing
ReplyDeletedevourer+nashor to me looks like a decent build for her,runeglaive is probably better but devourer+nashor is functional too...i think
ReplyDeletefor what i saw he's a god tier peeler with strong base damages(q+ult's passive is a very strong and unexpected poke),sadly late game his damage will probably start to fall and alone can't really do anything,your best bet is to have champs who can abuse the immortality while eaten(fiddle)or that relies on flash for engages (annie)
ReplyDeleteWhy is Velkoz falling?
ReplyDeletei've tried smite/tp fizz top and i was surprised how much damage i could dish out with just cinderhulk+red smite and after i built botrk no one could stop me,i suggest you all to try him,level 6 all ins with ult+red smite beat even riven.
ReplyDeleteAlso godyr likes devourer too,sated devourer+trinity and you can oneshot adc
if the enemy team got cc he's screwed,he's very good versus specific comps that lack too much cc or tanks but he can't do anything versus a good peel since he's prone to being oneshotted too(ashe can just ult+oneshot you even alone for example)
ReplyDeletei've carried a game once with kassalose but you're right,until level 16 you're useless.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that his kit is too difficult to balance and i think he needs a rework at this point because like old ryze some numbers could make him god tier
His damage can be scary when he gets in your face, but that never happens so its k
ReplyDeleteplus you have the added bonus of people flaming youfor picking him, then he enemy flaming riot for making him, few games ago a yasuo complain about mordes passive, as if a yasuo has the right to complain about the ability to negate some damage
ReplyDeleteI agree. Kassadin is, by nature, one of the hardest champions to balance, if not the hardest. A rework will be inevitably necessary, but that's surely going to take a long while to happen, so they could at least give him some buffs to bring a bit of his damage back, so he can do his job properly. Giving him AP scaling on Riftwalk so he gets more AP ratios for his late game to be truly good, is in my opinion, one of the best measures to be taken, especially since its Mana scaling is not just nonsensical but also very weak. Of course, they have to be careful with the ratio or else we're gonna have a bad time.
ReplyDeleteI know how to balance him, same way they balance every other champion
ReplyDeleteeg: Ryze, Veigar
make the q a skillshot XD
I know, but he still instantly shreds anyone's hp just like before, and the slow is nice but saves him just about as commonly as before, only thing is with the new ap items you cannot get as much ap as before, i played full ap malz (sorcs, all 3 120's, Rylai's, and a void) from time to time and since his ratio's are crazy he could 100-0 a fed adc with just his E and ignite, just doesn't happen anymore
ReplyDeleteXD
ReplyDeleteAs fun as it sounds, actually making it a skillshot would at least make it deal more damage (at least that's the tendency), so it could make him stronger in the end.
Hi guys and girls!:) so I thought that with the latest changes to the AP items Lissandra would have gotten slightly stronger... And yeah with the adjustment to syndra Q+E stun she should've climbed a little. Why did that not happen? I remember that before they ruined her engage she was Tier 1, so maybe she should get back there?
ReplyDeleteI love syndra, been playing he a lot recently, main issue i have with her is that she is SOOOO mana hungry, so you can put off damage and get mana, but that leaves her powerspike off too late, or you can be lazy and build damage, and then suffer trying to keep balls around for a good 7 orb ulti, which will either 1 shot or severely chunk anyone, than an E followup on that.... so juicy 5 man stun (or 4 if they are dead.... or less if there was noone else there)
ReplyDeletebut yeah, she is fine but probably too much effort for your average person who jsut wants the next "freelo"
I understand what you're saying, she has a high skill cap indeed! But I don't think that's why she's so low! :) After all, there are plenty of other champions who are difficult to play with, but still are tier 1.
ReplyDelete"A legion couldn't stop me! What chance do you have?"
Why didnt Aatrox move up along the list like Xin,Ww, yi, and shyv when he makes use of the new devourer just as good and offers cc unlike yi or shyv (shyv's ult is unreliable so im not FULLY considering it cc).
ReplyDeleteConsidering a majority of his damage is in the R-->Q combo, any top lane mage would be smart to rush hourglass against that. I played Malzahar vs Fizz and his all in was potent. But, once I got hourglass, he went from 1-shotting me to dying while I still had 80% of my HP.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, Vel'koz has always been super mana-dependent to play against most other champions. While they hit their power spike first, Vel'koz has to wait and eventually gets dived because the minions are either always at his turret or he's out of mana. Or both. He really has a better support kit and it's much safer for him.
ReplyDeleteUseless post:
ReplyDeleteLucian Bolt is back! Get sated devourer and show kassadin how it's done!
But you cant jungle him...
Her biggest issue is the her Q E interaction is weird, sometimes the ball doesn't move, sometimes it hardly moves, sometimes it moves unpredictably, and ,sometimes it hardly moves at all, really easy to hit most of the time and its a crazy long ranged cc, but i think it needs some work for smoother gameplay, she's even in terms of power and has more cc than most other mids, its probably just that most tier two or one mids are easy or really strong and in comparison her skillcap sets her lower
ReplyDeleteEvery game I've played as jungle Vayne ends up in a loss, no matter how fed I get. The problem is the lack of jungle pressure. You sacrifice a lot of it to get stacks on a champion that can't really gank. Can jungling her work? Yes. Is it effective? Not really, when you compare it to the pressure Shyvana provides. And let's not forget that you can easily counter-jungle a Vayne into uselessness. She can't kill camps quickly without Trailblazer, so early counter-jungling screws her over hard. A decent jungler investing in wards can keep track of her too. Vayne will lose pretty much any 1v1 fight in the jungle unless the enemy really messes it up. In the end, she's reliant on her jungle to get stacks, and even get the gold required to get the jungle item itself. Screw over her jungle and you win, hands down.
ReplyDeleteHow the hell did Master Yi not rise? His ban rate is rising as well
ReplyDeleteThe e changes really helped her nuking potential too. She can now passive proc and nuke the enemy team in a second. She's damn strong if you have a tank carry or another carry focus on your team, but can't carry your team on her own like Ahri though cause she's slow, squishy and all skillshots.
ReplyDeleteJust saying.. Jax jungle is completely insane. The champ is back.
ReplyDeleteI would argue a good Viktor is god-tier, but his e is difficult to hit and higher overall skill cap limiting no. of people who play him.
ReplyDeleteHigh manacosts, no earlypowerspikes, and minions at your tower.
ReplyDeleteWTF do you even play this champ?
Oh My God! I told u guyz my fav champ was WW, regarding meta, and here he is :)
ReplyDeleteanyways, Master Yi jungle is at least Tier 1. He is a monster if u use devourer on him. Played 4 rankeds w/ him (I'm gold 1), and I won 3, so that's something...
gotta try him. I main him top, but I always thought that his jungle clear didn't gave him tons of money, and he isn't the best ganker...
ReplyDeletebut it makes sense. Is his jg build like this?:
- Devourer, boots, Trinity, Randuin, Banshee, BOTrK?
Youre an idiot I've seen devourer Diana's do extremely well.
ReplyDeleteI like him mid 2, idk :(
ReplyDeleteThe thing I don't like about Devourer+Nashor is that now you just turned Diana from a burst assassin into a prolonged fighter. You don't want her trading hits 1v1 when you could just delete them with a Q+R+W+AA
ReplyDeleteStalker's typically, though Skirmisher's has it's merits ( which I think is what you're getting at). But neither her passive nor Stalker's is enough without a giant's belt or a full health/armor item.
ReplyDeleteThe problem isn't early game squishiness, it's mid game squishiness. By mid-game, most people would have Devour + BORK or Devour + Sunfire/Randuin's. Devour + Randiun's is alright for backline diving, but not enough to warrant God tier (and it's certainly not the default build path).
You absolutely HAVE to have ulti in order to backline dive as Shyvanna. It's not as essential for ganks or picks.
I think the reason he's low on the list is that he can either be a life-saver or a complete troll depending on where he unloads his teammates/enemies. He's much more of a 5v5 team-based champion like Bard who do well when the team communicates effectively instead of a solo queue climber.
ReplyDeleteCool, SSJ is Diamond IV.
ReplyDeleteBecause he still has his core problems which more damage and more healing doesn't solve
ReplyDeleteTry to max w in midlane first. Then you waveclear very manaefficient ( you hit 6 minions X 2 and proc your passive). I was used to vel koz supps q max too, but try w mid and you will get results.
ReplyDeleteJust asking, why is Jax tier 3 in jungle? his early game isnt great but MUCH MUCH better than kayles and his dueling power may not be as strong as kayles, he also has great mobility with his q where kayles doesnt, and his r procs with sated devourer. Pls respond.
ReplyDeleteI know vel'koz got hit by the ap changes, but why would you build rylai's on vel?
ReplyDeletehe already has a powerful slow and his other ablities are aoe.
Kayle's kit is completely centered around "on hit" so by getting sated devourer her power is increased by essentially 33% because she needs 2 aa's to do what took 3 before now, and her core item, the good ol' nashors got some love this patch in addition to this, kayle herself got some early buffs, idk about before but it takes me about 30 seconds more to do her first full clear than it does for the average tank jungler
ReplyDeleteWhile jax hits like a truck lategame and seems unkillable, Kayle hits like a runaway train and seems untouchable, and for a couple seconds is actually unkillable, Kayle has great mobillity via her w and it's not limeted to herself, unlike jax who is selfish and really doesn't offer much to his team apart from a pretty good splitpusher, which really... i play leblanc top with tanky ap items and splitpush all day so anyone can fill that role and he doesn't have the raw AoE damage + Utility that kayle offers
Only problem the good old A A trox has is his team deciding to ignore his 3 man knockup and great effort of bursting their carries down to half in the process and deciding to start dragon while i hold them off i guess
ReplyDeletethough thats an issue for any champion in yolo q who requires followup i find that Aatrox suffers from not being able to use his passive well in the first clear, soon as he gets a little sustain its all good but earlier on its a nightmare and he has awful first clear
I play him jungle a lot I think he might be a hidden gem. They could just buff him because they will and he could become a good jungler. We have to wait and see if they game him more star buffs to help his early game a little bit more that would be nice.
ReplyDeleteWtf? Ww God tier? He doesn't even have damaging on hits. And his ult doesn't proc sated devourer passive. I've lost trust in this list.
ReplyDeletetop lane mages are rarer and most of them are weak enough that fizz can kill them without ult or just force their zhonya or their untargettable spells(vlad,liss),that's a problem later in the game i agree but smite fizz will probably try to focus adcs at this point
ReplyDeleteyeah i know but is still a thing and worth to mention
ReplyDeleteww passive is an on hit magic damage+heal,also he build much more on hit items than devourer junglers (wit's end,bork).
ReplyDeleteMaster yi is stopped by tanks and cc and ww can solo baron too probably
i agree,q and r won't even apply the slow cause the slow changes,i think you should rush liandry and the full ap
ReplyDeletePants are Dragon begs to differ.
ReplyDeleteRito bugfixed the E in 5.13, it's considerably smoother now.
ReplyDeleteGot a double mordekaiser mid there, a few palces from each other :) Just letting you know!
ReplyDeleteI did max W to begin with. I pretty much do that when I support with him too. Maybe I just don't use the charges efficiently, idk. But I tend to hold onto my ultimate. I never feel like there's a good time to use it, except when they're low. They just back otherwise.
ReplyDeleteBut good suggestions. I might check out doing the level 6 all in. What would you recommend for starting items? Just get flask/pots and hold until 6? Doran's? Boots/pots?
How did the changes affect Vlad?
ReplyDeleteYou'd be right, I don't give half of a shit, lol. A sarcastic assholey comment to me responded to with one from myself makes me unwanted? Don't reply to people if you are going to be a dick about it. Simple. I asked a legitimate question.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point actually, thanks. Never considered the mana problems.
ReplyDeletekalistas winrate has dropped alot from the nerfs. i think shes debatabl tier 2 considering her skill cap and how she needs some decnt synergy with her support. kalista is overatted in solo Q. her competitive level is a whole other ball game but for solo Q im not feeling it. i have a positive winrate with over 60 games on her so its not like im some butthurt kid that cant play her. i just dont see whats so great about her in terms of solo Q it must have something to do with her ability to outplay skillshots but damage wise she can get shut down pretty easily.
ReplyDeletealso this has nothing to do with her potential but anyone else think shes boring to play? i mean i play literally every adc in the game with the exception for MF, quinn but i just find kalista to be SOOOOO boring. shes just a twitch that has alot of mobility BORING idk why so many people have fun playing her
ive recently tried something new with lucian and i would like to share it. heres my build:
ReplyDeleteessence reaver, shiv, bloodthirster, last whisper and berserkers greaves+ defensive item
call me crazy but i have had alot of success with this build. the lifesteal pretty much makes him really hard to kill and with the essence reaver he will never run out of mana. now he does sacrifice having no crit but he has his passive so u dont need heavy crit on lucian anyway. considering how he has 500 range i love this build it gives me 30% lifesteal and i have 10% cdr allowing me to Q and spam spells more often. its been working for me so far but im still testing it. try it yourself if u want its pretty good
There are many changes to the AP, but few changes to the list.
ReplyDeletehis ult triggers 5 on hit affects?
ReplyDeleteWhy is Yasuo on the rise? I remember a few patches ago, he was tier 3 top and mid; now he's risen to tier 2 in mid and tier 1 top respectively (especially when compared to the other high skillcap ad assassin, Zed, who's fallen from tier 1 to tier 2 midlane).
ReplyDeleteWW's ult does not proc sated devourer and 5x8% is 40% CURRENT health... not max health....
ReplyDeleteOh no, he lost a bronze follower
ReplyDeleteYea I honestly have no idea if hes talking about Vel because he literally never runs out of mana with just Marrellocon
ReplyDeletewhat about teeto top? his 3 core items got buffed (nashor, liandry and void staff) and melee top laners are popular once again
ReplyDeleteThey take longer to get now since they cost more gold, all 3 of them.
ReplyDeleteHe's actually a little over 50% as a top laner at plat+ but between 52 to 53% at gold+
ReplyDeleteI think the only viable ap item would be Nashor's.... or abyssal if everyone on your team does magic dmg
ReplyDeleteDo you people build triforce on shen then tank or just full tank?
ReplyDeleteI think Dorans is the best start because of your good earlygame.
ReplyDeleteI take flask when i play matchups i am not comfortable with (i really have a problem with those varus qs...).
I almost never go for the bootsstart but i have to admit that it's viable against heavy skillshot reliant champs like syndra or xerath.
My midlane-vel'koz improved when i started to buy more wards. I rarely buy any with ahri for example (well i should i guess) but i think the eyeball is too difficult to play without.
I think fizz mid could be moved up to low tier 1. His snowball potential is ridiculous, not the worst laning phase for the mid lane right now, and has percentage health damage for tanks. Also, he is extremely slippery with 40% CDR and zhonya.
ReplyDeleteYeah well I build almost all tanky items. But, I do pick up BOTRK!!!!!!!!!! Botrk is the thing. Percent health damage? Attack speed? lifesteal,sustain? whats not to like. It's really a good offensive item on shen. other items usually are tank.
ReplyDeleteAlso with triforce you are wasting some mana that the item gives. but its ok. But yeah, BOTRK gives u AD which gives dmg, Lifesteal which gives DMG, basic attack percent damage which gives DMG. And last but definitely not least, it gives you ATTACK SPEED. So you can proc your passive more often.
Yes slipperies suck... very annoying slippery mofo :D
ReplyDeleteSSJ, you completely ignored Jax and Aatrox on this patch when they are clearly on the rise..and deserve tier 1. Where I can see people's point around Yi win rate staying barely the same (strangely shyv stays in god when she is in the same boat regarding sated and her WR%..) they are two of the biggest beneficiaries of the patch along with Ww, Kayle and Xin.
ReplyDeleteTham Kench sucks tbh
ReplyDeleteShyvi full tank? really? With a 70% win rate on Triforce, i dont know why ppl could build her pure tank
ReplyDeleteI want to share another off-meta, some would say trollpick: Zilean ADC.
ReplyDeleteI recommend to stop here my fellow reader but should you go on you could experience some quite hilarious league-games.
I dont like zilean. He has 1 damagespell that can be dodged and it's delayed so sometimes you waste damage or kill your target too late to safe someone. Between q casts i often feel useless.
Positive things are his high basedamage on q (300), the fact that he has 4 basicspells through rewind (2qs and 2 es), the aoe stun and a revive.
Everything i listed above doesnt require ap. The amount of health your target gets reborn with scales hard with AP but often it survives the skirmish anyway because of the stasis or he is so out of position that he immediatly dies again.
Zilean as an ADC:
Botlane perks: Having zilean on a duolane is quite effective. The useless passive aside, you can speed up your supp to help him initiate, or prevent him and yourself from dying. Your chances to survive a gank are high. I learned that the supp is often the champ that uses movementspeed best in the team (i despise blitzcrank).
Of course, you can ult your supp, so you can save your supp as the ADC (wonderfull feeling).
I cant think of an ability that outdamages zileans q on botlane and only a few have more range. Because of that your earlygame is good, your aa range is 550 so you wont have a disadvantage.
The irony is that zilean, a support himself, synergizes with other supps because of his doublebomb combo. Should your supp CC someone you will hit it for sure and extend the duration of the CC coupled with huge burstdamage. This usually results in a kill. That's why he is so strong on burstlanes, but through the nature of his q, he can be played on pokelanes too.
A great nuisance is the tear you should buy. Afterwards a trinityforce (you can proc it offen) is recommended, maybe finish the manamune first. Then go for botrk because you dont have att.sp. yet. You need cdr boots.
Out of lane:
Well, i am sure you arent convinced yet and i can tell you that neither am i. The reason why i started playing zilean ADC is his e. Its range is 550, your aa range. Imagine how annoying an ADC with a speedup can be. But in most cases, the slow is more valuable. It's a high percentage targeted slow, up to 99%. Cast this twice and the poor bruiser who jumped you wished you were only an Ashe. The slow makes landing your 2xq very easy, so congrats! You offer a shitton of CC from the ADC Position. And you are a catchGOD.
Cant killean the zilean. You have superhigh selfpeel not only from your fantastic e, of course you got r. Mistakes in your positioningabilitys are much more forgivable, even if you mess up and ult too early, you get 5 seconds of free autoattacking.
TL;Dr:
Possible downfalls:
-Tearreliant (i think)
-VERY low baseatt.sp. and no steroids (well you get muramana) so att.sp. is weak on him.
-Takes time to ramp up (i think it's the tear and the scaling through utility)
- no ad scaling on abilitys
-low damageoutput
-shields on botlane make your qs too weak (espexially sivir....)
Why zilean ADC?:
-slow is insane on an adc
-uncatchable
-massive waveclear
-selfpeel
-synergy on botlane
-makes your team more efficient
-hard cc
-nice scaling
Hope you enjoyed this little trip to the offmetarealm! Maybe this will show up as a weird pick sometime? ^^ Have fun!
1st, if u're not getting sated right after botrk, u're doing something wrong. After getting those 2, ur ult should be available in less than a minute, again u're doing something wrong if u dont. Shyv is a god tier because the raw damage she has, the extremely insane clear time and the way you always get feed even if you dont gank. Get lvl 3, get a kill or 2 assist, and u're already feed.
ReplyDeleteCoz Botrk + Devourer are enough :)
ReplyDeleteProblem is, there's just one Cowsep. On lower elos, you can get him out the match with a decent counterjungle. CC isn't the biggest enemy of Yi, any jungler can outtrade him on early and mid. And if he doesnt get feed, is just another minion running around with a paper sword.
ReplyDeleteYup, but then, u're not using her at full potential. Her Q is like one of the most OP non ult skills on the game.
ReplyDeleteHis q does alot of aoe damage and you e them before you put it on them. His w resets his q...
ReplyDeleteHis e is very life saving and his r is a free ga. He has good cc as support as well no point of playing him ad he doesnt have ad steroids and doesnt benefit from building ad as much as any other mage.
Might as well ad sona or lulu, even jannas sheild gives bonus ad shes probably be be better ad
He saves lives inalmost died without his e.
ReplyDeleteHow can you put Shyvana Top in Tier 3???? I just easily beat a Rumble.
ReplyDeleteMaybe because she has a lot of counters on top, especially god and tier 1 champs. I don't know, I play her a lot on the jungle, but the times i go to top, i feel like her sustained damage is never enough. Or maybe i'm just bad in the lanes :V
ReplyDeleteI see... So you think he scales better with Ap... Or do you build him tank? The point of using him as an autoattacker is that he can use his CC to be a threat on his own. AA itemisation gives every champ sustained damage, of course we could argue if there are better nonmeta adcs, i hope i made clear why i think that he doesnt need AP to function, unlike other mages and that his form and frequency of CC is valuable for this position.
ReplyDeleteWell i am suprised that someone put some thought into that, thanks i guess.
Tahm Kench nerf is coming :O Great synergy with Kalista on bot line, unkillable :/
ReplyDeletei beat riven with smite-tp fizz,he should be a tier above god tier imho
ReplyDeletetriforce got 70% win rate because is bought only when snowballing,if you buy triforce in an even or losing game chance of winnings become very low because of very high cost and not enough tank stats
ReplyDeleteyou build 100% tank and splitpush all day,with teleport you're the global master and later in the game you just dive and kill the adc
ReplyDeletekinda disappointed with the jungle placement
ReplyDeletehow the f is yi still tier 2
and jax deserves tier 1 with devourer
i have a feeling ww is definitely not the best user of devourer.
ult doesn't synergies with it that well, and yes, it does stack passive faster, but its not like gamebreaking.
anyways, this item, my god
i literally rofl when i tried the new devourer with jax and ended up doing more damage than their adc and mid combine
here is a few tips:
don't stop farming jungle even after you got the sated
you can clear a camp within three seconds, so why not?
always take dragon early, ideally two
you stack so much faster with that
always take crab, again faster stacking and more vision.
after devourer, buy one more damage item and go full tank.
its more than enough damage.
take baron at 20-25 minutes ideally, you should have your sated at 18-23 depending on your game, perhaps even later, you melt baron with it.
last but not least, remember to gank, don't get carried away.
sums up, you may suggest more stuff, who do you think deserves higher place with devourer?
Any input on Singed? He got buffed this patch with scaling MR, making his lane against mages a little less annoying and his favorite itens got buffed too, with liandry giving 30 more AP,ROA/Seraph both giving 20 more AP and 5% more slow on Rylai(which is bugged right now,applying 40% slow on his Q)
ReplyDeleteYou might try some other tier lists, such as lolnews247 . (just kidding, that tier list is kind of copy here - some other tier lists are rankedboost, metasrc, metalol and powerleveled).
ReplyDeleteActually WW has some other strong points, like his sustain early so the opponent jungler dare not invade, his ulti applies on-hit effects, good scale tankiness along with tank meta. He was nerfed some while ago due to good synergy with new jungle items - but now the sated devourer can make up for that - hence we have strong jungler candidate.
Yi can carry a game well, if he's in good hands. Unfortunately my hands seem never that good ;-)
I just lost against a Singed (well, actually most of Pantheon's ganks was good enough to ruin my lane domination). Looks like Shen and Shyvana are not the only ones making a come back !
ReplyDeletethe problem is not jax,
ReplyDeletethe problem is
why the f is kayle getting buffed?
the reason kayle hits harder is because she builds full ap, while jax doesn't..
jax has an aoe cc, a pretty good one, i would say.
also, you have to take into account if jax ever gets onto an adc, kiss him or her goodbye.
what? vayne? red trinket is a thing.
trist does that to everyone, you don't have to tell me that she can escape.
Let's say it's a given that one has sated right after BORK - that's not the problem. I'm not contesting the damage. I'm contesting that fact that Syv gets blown up instantly and loses her only gap closer once she dives in. Going into mid game fights, you become a squishier triforce Vi with less damage.
ReplyDeleteYes, she has good clear time. But she can still struggle against peel and kiting, which means her back-line dive won't be successful without a better diver holding her hand (Gnar, Diana, Fizz, Leona).
And please, who would ever build tri force on Shyv? That's not even a noob trap, literally no one builds that on her. I think you missed my argument completely.
"Kind of"
ReplyDeletehaving sustain does not equal to not invadible.
ReplyDeletehe clears slower than a turtle, ok udyr clears fast, but still.
shaco cares not 4 ur dueling, the jungle belongs to nunu, the golden rule guys
In the current meta with devourer, junglers tend to focus on farming rather than ganking. Warwick has always classically had weak early game pressure and insanely strong post 6 strength.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that the majority of junglers now opt to farm early game means that Warwick's lack of early pressure is almost a non-factor, and the fact that he can jungle faster via his crazy sustain means that he is exponentially stronger.
I believe you mean "uninvadable", although that's apparently not a real word.
ReplyDeleteits not, i am aware
ReplyDeleteIt should be, let's petition to add it to the dictionary
ReplyDeleteShyvana as a jungler actually has top 5 win rates in the game, it's her top lane that's keeping her overall stats down. I agree Jax should be moved up, but I'm not entirely sold on Aatrox.
ReplyDeleteI think that if you take two dragons, every crab, and a 20 minute baron, your team is probably in pretty good shape no matter who you're playing.
ReplyDeleteit's not gone, i have played a couple games with her this patch and it still is bugged, though it did definately take out the sphere jumping off unpredicatbbly, if i time Q + E in perfectly it seems that just at a certain time it will move the orb like 1/10th of the distance it should, it gets annoying because i have inconsistent ping so it's not like i can just learn to not time it like that, and it also happens that if i just hit it just on the edge of her w range it will go twice as far as it would if it was just inside her indicator
ReplyDeleteI agree with the Kayle buff point, really was a bad idea on riots part because she was already pretty strong
ReplyDeletei will argue about jax though, without a full build he isn't so strong unless he is ahead, and even then, if that carry has a support by them you can say goodbye to jax, because jax dies to cc just like every other champion (except poppy, screw poppy)
So i just want to share this with anyone who cares because everyone seems surprised by it in actual games
ReplyDeleteTake blue trinket on Nocturne
Ever used your ulti and then they are lost in the fog of war right before you can do second cast?
Blue trinket
you see their jungler clear dragon ward?
Blue trinket + ulti for free drag (i call it a flyby smiting)
Big teamfight and the enemy retreats into unwarded jg?
Blue trinket
blue trinket nocturne works because while they feel safe in the FoW you have a secret weapon to make them cry out in there sleep as if from a horrifying nightmare :)
Downsides include lack of the vision or anti-vision other trinkets provide
just figured i should put this out there because once i started using it i felt like the blue trinket was made for Nocturne
Nice one, man!!! Yep! Also, in general, Blue Trinket is good :)!
ReplyDeleteTrinkets <3:P
Lol. indeed the jaks devourer is annoying shet
ReplyDelete+The mana is wasted on it, so uh, yeah
ReplyDeleteI also try Singed but afer 10 min we were loosing like 1-8 and they make a kind of gang bang on me under my tower, not the best match to check the champ after the patch.
ReplyDeleteYeah, more than little better against Mages. Magic Resist
ReplyDelete2 second cd on ult is pretty good, the way i build him i usually have enough mana for 3 800 mana ults which is fine because you have your active w on champs to replenish mana, which should be the only situation where you need 3 max mana ults. I agree his bases and scaling are utter trash especially when you are in the middle of building roa and archangels.
ReplyDeleteHe is better top because there are less people to harass him up there.... mostly.... fck teemo....
ReplyDeletebut yeah, i find that building him hybrid works pretty well, Becuase his Q has awfull scaling, so on the rare occasion that i play him i build (vs AD anyways)
Hex Gunblade > Sorcs > Iceborn > BotRK > Zhonya's > Deathcap/Void
you will have enough damage to kill almost any squishy with just a Q E then AA, i play him as a Splitpusher because he is uncatchable, takes towers fast, has great waveclear and can 1v1 anyone ( good burst for the squishies and % current + % missing health damage for tanks, plus the hybrid damage is hard to itemize against, and he has 5 different methods of slowing so no one escapes once he gets his BotRK, plus he still 1 shots carries
His passive applys single target effects.
ReplyDeleteIn low elo, effective counter jungling is almost non existent. When I get behind as yi, I just go full splitpush-bot mode which is also very effective low elo, where everyone just wants to teamfight
ReplyDeleteoh thank you ^^
ReplyDeleteDont be so sure, try it instead botrk
ReplyDeleteEx Plat 1 here. Main jungle ( Lee, and by main i mean hundred of matches). G1 now, my questions is 'bout shyvana. Is that champion worth buying? Seen here a few times in ranked but lost so hard vs her, in tf, in 1v1 etc. Idk really what to say. Looking for answers!
ReplyDeleteWell, as a main shyvana, i lol so hard at lee´s. But u already gave yourself the answer
ReplyDeleteWhat about Master Yi ? He seems strong with the devourer right now.
ReplyDeleteHehe, so you think mana is wasted on shyv? That wasnt a noob trap, it was sarcasm. Deleting an ADC with just 2 or 3 AAs? Who would want that
ReplyDeleteSSJ can you explain why Warwick is #1 god tier? I dont disagree with it, in fact i played a few games and did great, but i want to know EXACTLY WHY he is above the likes of Shyvana and Kayle. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteWhat items has Syv been taken in these games? I'd like to research the chart you're referring to.
ReplyDeleteThe ones I'm reading on Lolking show literally no change in win rate in the past 2 weeks (pre and post patch 5.13). http://www.lolking.net/champions/shyvana®ion=all&map=sr&queue=1x1#statistics
Hope this doesn't sound to aggresive, but I remain unconvinced that she's been bolstered to God Tier. This additional information could help.
Same here, I would be strongly interested to get the sources.
ReplyDeleteI've always been confused about Rengar being Tier 1 Top and Tier 2 Jg, when I feel it should be vice-versa. He struggles against nearly everyone in god-tier top, and his ultimate is only useful in the laning phase for escapes or forcing a gap close (which isn't usually necessary with bushes almost always nearby.) Plus, unless you truly dominate as Rengar top (unlikely in the current meta,) you won't have a completed bonetooth necklace until the very late game. But while the bonetooth necklace can mean almost nothing for top lane Rango, a jungle Rango can use it to turn into a furious ganking machine if he does his job right. An early game Rengar (that is, one who has at least one point in q and one point in e) can start setting up kills almost immediately; golden bola is pretty much a death sentence for any squishy early game champion. And for every successful gank, that's another step step closer to the next bonus from the bonetooth necklace, and you WILL utilize every bonus as you roam the map creating bigger, scarier ganks. The only mediocre quality of early game jg Rango is his average clear rate (mainly because blue buff is virtually useless to him,) but the point of playing jungle Rengar is for the ludicrous success rate he has in eg ganks which can put his team miles ahead. If you think you're supposed to live in the jungle and wait until level 6 before you start ganking, you are absolutely playing Rengar wrong and need to go home and rethink your life. The bottom line is Rengar's early game is unquestionably strong, and the best place to utilize his strength isn't in the top lane dancing with Riven and getting 1 or 2 kills at most. Instead, he belongs in the jungle, ready to toss that golden bola and end all chance of escape. Ready to earn one more piece for the bonetooth necklace. Ready to become the true predator he really is.
ReplyDeleteA mouthful, but I had to get it off my chest
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised Nautilus top isn't in this list. He's very strong right now and (no, I'm not a major follower of the LCS) but competitive play proves he's a worthy top laner. Tier 1 would probably be right for him.
ReplyDeleteNever mind, I spotted that he was T2 :D
ReplyDeleteIt's mostly a problem if you're facing him in top lane as a melee champ since he can zone you away from the minions if you aren't able to fight him
ReplyDeleteAatrox with Devourer gets to proc his W forms every other attack. This can make a bruiser Aatrox EXTREMELY hard to kill or he will just crush squishies faces. I've never found him weak, just people don't play him enough to really see how powerful he is. He has great burst damage, can stay in the jungle to clear nearly forever, can solo drag at level 3 relatively quickly, has pretty damn good ganks, and if he gets behind he can just splitpush all game and take towers very fast. Aatrox is my favorite champion, so I may be biased, but I have found him to be extremely strong since Sated Devourer came out.
ReplyDeleteRiot found another way to take my money by buffing this guy, making me play him then putting one of his skins on sale as soon as i got comfortable with him, he is yet another champion that makes me wish there was a 7th item slot, but the slow on his q is bugged right now with rylai's, it applies the 40% i think
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