LoL Which Champions are Strongest When Mastered? - March 2015 | NERFPLZ.LOL





Mar 2, 2015

Which Champions are Strongest When Mastered? - March 2015

112 comments

A last minute switch from a tentative Mordekaiser musing monday to maintenance Monday, but don't fret as I believe you'll enjoy this post! As an update to the first rendition of "Which Champions are Strongest When Mastered", check out this updated list after a variety of nerfs and buffs to various champions ~  

Season 5 - Patch 5.4 Champion Gallery
"Strongest Champions When Mastered "

Introduction: 

Winning in solo queue is a complex affair. There are so many variables involved outside of player control such as lag, that consistency plays a massive part in climbing the ranks. Some champions excel in outplaying other champions, while others rely on brute force or special skills to win.

However, in an ideal situation with teammates that select champions that reasonably synergize with you, which champions offer the most bang for their buck when mastered? 

What Makes a Champion "Strong"? 

  1. Ability to dodge or negate spells and attacks; 
  2. Higher than usual damage rewarded for landing difficult skillshots; 
  3. Difficulty to kill; and/or
  4. Ability to damage enemies who can't damage you back, usually through one of the following methods:
    • Durability
    • Untargetability
    • High Range
    • Crowd Control effects
  5. High potential damage output
Although some champions may overlap, the criteria above is used and the following criteria that we use for solo queue are omitted
  1. Ease of play; 
  2. Synergy with popular champions; and
  3. Margin of error.

Strongest Mid Laners


Morgana [Utility]: Replacing Syndra on the top list is Morgana, a champion that will no doubt raise some eyebrows being on the strongest mid laner list. The reason for this is that as a champion that is heavily "utility" based as a result of her famous black shield, Morgana is oft seen as a support role. However, in terms of waveclear, ganking, and saving potential, there are few things scarier than a quick two second snare from a roam bot at level two. Not only that, with the heavy onslaught of champions like Vi on the field, a good Morgana absolutely dominates all the powerful lockdown compositions that rely on getting in and out quickly.

Ahri [Damage/Utility]: Replacing Cassiopeia on this list post nerfs is Ahri, Annie and Xerath were a close follow up, but Ahri is simply insane for her ability to dodge and outplay with her ultimate. This combined with the damage potential and CC from her kit makes her impossibly strong at the moment, despite recent nerfs that hoped otherwise.

Zed [Damage/Outplay]: Staying on the list for a second straight term is Zed. Despite failing popularity, he remains a very strong candidate in terms of sheer talent. In terms of team utility, Zed essentially has none. He is a pure damage and outplaying machine, and efficient management of poke, clones, and all-in timing is crucial to pull off that sweet ultimate + nuke + fade away back into the shadows. However, pulling off amazing plays with him is probably one of the most satisfying things you'll ever do in League of Legends.

Katarina [Damage]: Although nerfed slightly this patch, in terms of raw damage potential Katarina is bar none, still the strongest snowball champion in the game. The second she kills or gets an assist off one champion, her damage effectively increases by an instant 50~100%. This combined with the fact that 75% of her skills are AOE means that she WILL get a reset and your team WILL die.

Leblanc [Damage/Utility]: A good Leblanc is absolutely indispensable. Surprisingly, it's her ability to poke with distortion that separates a good Leblanc from a bad one (there are no mediocre Leblancs, but plenty of bad ones). She is an extremely high risk, high reward champion, and her most popular skill order puts her right in the middle of the fray to maximize her AOE damage output. However, with good timing and skill management, she can also lure out dangerous spells via her poke before she goes all-in to burst down a squishy.

Honorable Mentions: Annie, Cassiopeia, Xerath, Yasuo. These champions are tried and true, and often have the ability to dominate solo queue by themselves. However, at the moment their damage output isn't quite as strong as others in their pool in the current patch. I would keep them tight on the radar though, as they're strong contenders in their own right.

Strongest Top Laners


Riven [Damage/Utility]: Finally making it to the list, Riven is in a great spot right now for those that use her well. It's no surprise from the videos that you watch what she's capable of, and when executed to her fullest potential, she gives her opponent(s) little to no time to respond with her fast execution combos and short cooldowns.

Irelia [Damage]: Irelia is a champion that can snowball insanely hard from the get-go, or slowly wittle down enemy top laners until they can no longer stay in lane with her, even from a losing position. She's extremely powerful right now due to her ability to quickly navigate via minion waves, coupled with her sustained true damage.

Fizz [Damage/Utility]: Fizz as a top laner is surprisingly powerful right now. His new W synergizes with blade of the ruined king extremely well, and provided he can get an early lead, no tanky top laner can ever scale against him. As a tanky bruiser his survivability is also extraordinarily high when combined with his double gap closer and untargetable playful trickster.

Lissandra [Damage/Utility]: The only top laner to stay on the list two renditions in a row, Lissandra's ability to outplay via her untargetability combined with her long distance initiation/mind game power gives her extremely high utility. This, in sync with her strong AOE damage output means that she can shred down targets extremely efficiently when combined with her teammates. 

Hecarim [Damage/Utility]: As a top laner, Hecarim brings heavy sustained punishment via his auto-resetting spell, and can swiftly take down most melee champions with ease. The most popular builds on him actually run teleport and ignite, which gives him the ability to chase down quick double kills bot lane and snowball to victory. With his insane movement speed, a fed Hecarim is extremely difficult to avoid and can engage/disengage at will.

Honorable Mentions: Nidalee - Nidalee is definitely a decent top laner right now, but I like her in the role below more.

Jungle


Shaco [Damage/Utility]: In terms of snowball potential, there are few champions better than Shaco for quickly ending a game in 20 minutes. While his late game teamfight is significantly weaker than most, even when fed, a skilled Shaco can make it impossible for an enemy team to get organized. With strong split-pushing, objective control, and assassinations, Shaco can definitely single-handedly carry games.

Fiddlesticks [Damage]: Few junglers (or champions for that matter) have the ability to make an entire team run or die at almost any point in the game. Fiddle is one such champion, and through his ultimate, has the ability to change the tides of a game by himself. However, because of his weak constitution, he needs to be careful in terms of when and how he engages. Getting interrupted or instantly bursted down before using Zhonyas is enough to make bad Fiddles completely ineffective.

Nidalee [Damage/Utility]: Replacing Jarvan IV on the list is jungle Nidalee. With her strong jungle clear courtesy of Riot buffs, Nidalee is an extremely powerful presence in the jungle right now. Her ganks with a successful spear are exceedingly high, and even if they quickly flash away, the damage from impact is more than enough for your teammates to win their lane. While forcing a flash is good, oftentimes you'll see your allies still lose lane. However, from 10% remaining HP, few people can outplay their opponents. This combined with the amazing utility from her cougar form W have earned her a place amongst the greats.

Lee Sin [Utility]: Some of you may be surprised that Lee's not higher up considering how much free press he gets from pros. Lee's ability to dodge skillshots and make insane plays is highly touted worldwide and rightly so. He can do it. Although nerfed many many times in the past, his kit still remains highly versatile and gives players the ability to make crazy plays.

Master Yi [Damage/Utility]: Master Yi's main draw as a high skillcap champion lies in his alpha strike, which effectively negates whatever was just thrown at him. Additionally, Master Yi's renowned base backdooring abilities make him one of the best come-from-behind; I'll-win-this-myself; and feed-game-win-game champions in the game.

Honorable Mentions: Jarvan IV and Vi. J4 is still fairly strong despite his nerfs, but I think it's time for a new round of champions to take the mantle. Vi is also fairly strong right now, but moreso for her numbers, which will soon be nerfed.

Strongest Supports


No change to supports this time around. While Annie is getting popular, I don't think her potential impact is on the same level.

Janna [Utility]: Janna is close to being indisputably the best support in the game in terms of sheer utility that she provides by herself. Through both her tornado and her monsoon (ultimate), Janna has the ability to block a massive number of champion "jump" attacks mid-air, including but not limited to the following:

Lee Sin, Akali, Kha'zix, Tristana, Corki, Lucian, Jarvan, Ahri, Fizz, Pantheon, Shen, Wukong, Xin Zhao, Vi, Fiora, Amumu...the list goes on and on.

Not only that, but she provides nearby teammates the ability to simply be faster than enemy champions whether it's for running away or for chasing down. This combined with the ability for her shield to deny death and also give an insanely strong damage buff cements her as a top tier support.

Thresh [Utility]: Where Janna is the queen of preventing plays from happening, Thresh is the offensive version, and king of making plays happen. His lantern and hook make him essentially the best support initiation in the game, as he can bring a friend with him during his initiation as a free gap closer. Additionally, all the champions listed above that Janna can block Thresh can also block with his flay (although with a shorter range/window of opportunity).

Blitzcrank [Utility]: Where Janna and Thresh keep teams ahead of the game, Blitzcrank has the ability to take away leads from even careful enemy teams. With his hook, he has the ability to create advantageous teamfights without needing to get close enough to the rest of the enemy team. This, combined with his speedboost makes it so that he can get the job done.

Strongest Marksmen (AD Carries)


Ezreal [Damage/Utility]: Technically speaking, if you were to hit every one of his Qs on enemy champions every time it came off CD except when they flashed or otherwise dodged it on purpose, Ezreal would be the most broken AD carry in the game, bar none. Luckily, most people seem to only be able to hit around 20%, if that.

Graves [Damage/Utility]: Replacing Lucian on this list after a rapid series of nerfs is Graves. With an extraordinarily similar kit, it's no wonder that people drew parallels when Lucian was stronger, calling him the "better Graves". However, now with Lucian nerfed to balance, we have Graves, the "better Lucian".

Sivir [Damage/Utility]: Where Ezreal and Lucian feel smooth to play with the complicated mechanics, Sivir falls short in the quality of life department, and often feels the pain of her somewhat slow boomerang and sometimes clunky auto attack reset animation from her W. However, when mastered her burst damage is absolutely outrageous, and can easily chunk someone like Sona down to half in a single combo at level 3.

Draven [Damage]: Draven has the strongest level 1 burst damage in the game bar none. 1v1, he will beat everybody. If he's able to all-in level 1 with a creep advantage, he essentially wins his lane then and there, provided he catches all his axes.

Kalista [Damage/Utility]: Replacing Vayne on this list is Kalista. While strong in her own right, Vayne simply doesn't have the early game cheese Kalista provides combined with the mid game utility and snowballing power that Kalista's passive gives her.Melee champions with high cooldowns on gap closers stand absolutely no chance against Kalista, and catching or chasing her often provides to be a self-defeating task.

Honorable Mentions: Corki, Vayne. These two champions have strong, ranged damage output. However, their nerfs have reduced their effectiveness in terms of damage.

Previous Versions:



Thoughts on other champions who should have made the list? Comment below!




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112 comments:

  1. Sooo... do you think irelia is getting nerfed soon?

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  2. BestSyndraNAMarch 02, 2015

    :O an update :D too bad syndra got removed tho

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  3. Nooo, my Syndra :'( You were the reason I started to play her, and now I own with her, and she's gone D:

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  4. Michael ThompsonMarch 02, 2015

    I still think Syndra should have made the mid-laner list. They just buffed the collision radius of her knock back and her damage is insane.

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  5. the fourthMarch 02, 2015

    Fun Fact- The last time irelia was nerfed was 2012
    so better nerf irelia doesn't even apply anymore
    #BetterNerfKassadino

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  6. KeiisankiiMarch 02, 2015

    My opinions, though expect backlash:
    Mid: Viktor, Xerath, Zed, Ahri, Diana and Cassiopea HM: Kat, Talon, Annie
    Top: Rumble, Gangplank, Riven,Teemo and Malphite HM: Kennen, Irelia
    Jungle: Sejuani, Vi HM: Xin Zhao
    Support: Janna, Thresh, Leona HM: Braum
    ADC: Quinn, Graves, Sivir, Draven HM: Kalista, Ashe, Varus

    Note that these are just opinions, and I totally understand why the list above is ranked the way they are.

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  7. There was Yasuo on the last HM, what happen to him?

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  8. WhySoSerious?March 03, 2015

    Thank you SSJ for realizing what a good champion Shaco is.

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  9. Josh ThurlowMarch 03, 2015

    @SSJSuntastic just a heads up, you have "how" instead of "now" under the Graves description.

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  10. You should mentionned Rumble top lane ! :)
    Nice list, but what happened to the Mordekaiser Monday ? :o

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  11. SSJSuntasticMarch 03, 2015

    Thanks! Fixed ~

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  12. SSJSuntasticMarch 03, 2015

    Always good to also think for yourself, no backlash for that!

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  13. JuandermanMarch 03, 2015

    I think Vayne should replace Graves tbh, as Graves isn't particularly hard to play

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  14. Aaseem D. KapilMarch 03, 2015

    Upvoted because of Viktor, Sejuani and Quinn

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  15. I'm quite astonished of not seeing rek'sai jungle mentioned , she got overall incredible map control, and her ganking potential pre 6 is just awsome ( due to the fact that she can come from crazy angle ), her passive is also another strengh,
    Could some one explain me her weakness, and the main reason why she is not here !

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  16. The Poppy on the cover is so misleading....


    Hecarim top? Never seen or tried it, but it seems interesting.

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  17. MasterOfMetalMarch 03, 2015

    I was actually just going to mention the poppy thing when your comment popped up hahaha

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  18. Hahahaha Poppy can be quite OP if she's mastered tho

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  19. Thanks for removing Rengo, so that everyone thinks they can pick him up and play him top. Free lanes incoming.

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  20. NotEnglish But Spaghetti :DMarch 03, 2015

    why poppy's image if she isn't there XD?
    Anyway looking at various sites fizz is rushing trinity and then bork,is there any particular order like taking bilgewater first and then rushing trinity or just pick trinity and then build bork?

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  21. Onur BulunMarch 03, 2015

    Why aren't they chosen if they are strongest? For Example: Hecarim, Ezreal and Master Yi.

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  22. SSJSuntasticMarch 03, 2015

    Hecarim and Ezreal are actually very popular right now. Master Yi isn't chosen because he requires a lot of calculated predictions and fast reflexes to maximize his potential.

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  23. If she falls behind even a tiny bit she is near useless.

    that is her only "Weakness"

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  24. I think she is still worth it IMO, the stun widht wasnt that great of a nerf as everyone is saying, (Rito plz dont read this)

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  25. Overlord MalzaharMarch 03, 2015

    The article is about the strongest "when mastered". Most people do not bother to master a said champion because it requires a lot of time, practice and probably a lot of research. The word 'mastered' should not be taken lightly: Boxbox has mastered Riven, but a challenger ADC main that plays her top when he can't get his role, hasn't.

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  26. I kinda disagree with morgana being one of the strongest mid laners I agree with her being tier one in the soloque tier list because she is really reliable and is really hard to mess up with her, but I dont think she isnt one of the hardest carries in the game

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  27. KGS MrsMermaidMarch 03, 2015

    I'm shocked to see that Leona hasn't been mentioned in the support list. She can actually be difficult to play at higher elo's since her only main playstyle that wields high results is a non-stop aggressive dive and kill everything playstyle. If she falls behind early she can become useless, but is one of the best supports for snowballing. She has the ability to peel, engage and tank whilst still doing relevant damage mid game.


    She also has decent outplay potential since two of her skills are skillshots which can be used to predict movement abilities (Tristana w/Lucian e/Graves e/Ezreal e/Leblanc w [return]). She is a very simple champion but many people have the inability to play her properly. Never mind to her full potential.


    Another is Braum. Good timing of "Unbreakable" and using Glacial Fissure in the right moment can make or break your game. He is strong in lane with decent poke and dueling. He has good burst with an ignite passive q combo. He has decent peel, lowish cooldowns and is kind of a hyper-tank late game. The best melee snowball support in the game no doubt. Also has decent mobility and good at assisting in ganks.

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  28. BoltOfSpadesMarch 03, 2015

    Can it be 5.5 yet? I want Azir back on this list.

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  29. no honorable mention for yasuo? he's fucking ridiculous with how much free utility he gets and his ability to dodge and outplay with his dash is ridiculous.

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  30. SSJSuntasticMarch 03, 2015

    Fine, he can get a HM

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  31. Jim PaponettiMarch 03, 2015

    those champions are easy as hell compared to most on this list

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  32. calico jonesMarch 03, 2015

    Totally agree with Fizz. Just went 18-1 with him. Rushed botrk, then Gaunts, then some troll items because I was so ahead.

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  33. calico jonesMarch 03, 2015

    I think you have to choose your fights more wisely with graves, since he's more of a dash in, q+r a clumped group, then dash out. Vayne can tumble around a fight melting anyone and even a new Vayne player can kite a champ that lacks utility. I will say Vayne seems way harder to master though.

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  34. What do you guys think about Kayle mid? Is she viable?

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  35. Can Jarvan get one too, he still brings a lot of utility and damage even after that nerf

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  36. Ryan HerminaMarch 03, 2015

    Wukong should at least be honorable for top. His ult is so useful and just an instant game changer. No matter how far off i fall behind with him, his natural damage still deals a good amount of damage and have you seen full ad wukong? Almost thought i was an assassin. And his escape mechanism is better than most people think it is since you can just hold S and act like a clone and maxing your Q just deletes people's armor.

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  37. The list isn't for hardest carries, its for best when mastered. Morg mid is just here because of Utility. Utility isn't necessarily going to carry games. If this was all about hard carries, it'd just be all the insane damage dealers (riven).

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  38. He doesn't require mastery lol, he's an extremely easy champ to play

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  39. I play Kayle mid mostly against Yasuo and Zed. Very viable if know how to play her.

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  40. Peter Joo Boomz KiangMarch 04, 2015

    Actually, utility does carry game, not in the manner of killing champion, but in some other way that is so huge that it carrys game (kinda like sp, example OMFG LULU KEEP ULTING VAYNE, BROKEN)

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  41. I don't think Janna's as good for chasing down opponents now with the tweak to her passive. Unless she's somehow in the frontline which would be dangerous haha. She does have even better synergy with captain boots enchantment tho.

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  42. Nicki MinajMarch 04, 2015

    couldnt the same be said for graves? o wait adc is the most complex role in the game ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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  43. Nicki MinajMarch 04, 2015

    i think u should replace that ezreal with corki. corki does everything ezreal can do but has more damage. stop submitting to the ezreal fanboys. corki is a true display of skill

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  44. Nicki MinajMarch 04, 2015

    LMAO "fine if it gets u to shut up"

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  45. Nicki MinajMarch 04, 2015

    are u still owning with her?

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  46. Yes, haha. The width increase on her e+w was pretty good, I was good at her, now I am better :D

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  47. Jonathan YeboahMarch 04, 2015

    I used to love Kayle so much lol they bullied her too much with dmg nerfs tho

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  48. Irelia? Better nerf.

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  49. the same goes for shaco and he made the list

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  50. But he is not very hard to play

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  51. Mmyeah kinda agree. Corki is a lovely burster AD Carry, love Corki.

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  52. Nicki MinajMarch 06, 2015

    its called humor. i didnt mean it to be rude lol

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  53. SaberSaurusMarch 06, 2015

    No Twitch? Laaaaame

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  54. Rosario MonettiMarch 07, 2015

    So i don't catch a thing, if this list changes often, why should i use time to master lissandra(it's an example) instead of pick swain and wreck people in a easier way?

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  55. Rosario MonettiMarch 07, 2015

    It's alsa true that this list changes often, so why i should master hecarim if the next month he will be out of this list? i can just pick wukong and play with less pressure

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  56. Your mom 1337 swag yoloMarch 09, 2015

    Because if you already know how to play the champ it will get even easier noob, rekt

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  57. Your mom 1337 swag yoloMarch 09, 2015

    Nub, only EMPenjoi can play kayle, 1v1 him plz.

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  58. Rosario MonettiMarch 09, 2015

    It's hard find someone capable of good trolling skills nowadays.
    Nice try

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  59. Almost trolled me, putting "1337" in there

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  60. KeiisankiiMarch 12, 2015

    Quick question: I really enjoy this, but I was wondering how often you update this? I don't expect it to be patchly, of course. Just curious is all.

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  61. FGSDFGSDGSGSSGGFMarch 12, 2015

    it's patchly.

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  62. How is Udyr not on this list for Junglers? He can single handedly take over games, even when his team is feeding by "opening da gates", and with bear stance we has a great stun to help his lanes get ahead early.

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  63. Wukong has a lot of counters being a top laner compared to other top laners (Darius, Renek, Olaf, Rek'Sai, Riven, etc) and he's amazing and all- but late game if you fall off he's more of a ragdoll who's only use is to land his ulti for a small cc.

    If you go full ad Wukong, easily bursted down and the moment you get cc'd you're kind of fucked (Unless of course you're fed/ahead). Tanky Wukong is bad. Bruiser Wukong is great and all, but if you're an early pick and pick Wukong- he's one of the most easily counterpicked champ imo. Also fails horribly against tanks, you just can't win against tanks as Wukong.

    His escape mechanism is not as great as you think. It's very obvious if it's an S juke or an actual decoy as the decoy stops abruptly to stand still while holding s slowly transition into standing still, I hardly ever use the S juke now because of such unless I'm in a bush/a lot of Wu mains (including people like Allorim, who got to Challenger with Wu main) doesn't use the S juke.

    He's one of those champs that are amazing at low elo because people panic and Wu can burst them down. But higher elo, it's easy to shut him down early game- or simply cc him and not be bunched up so his ulti doesn't hit everyone.

    1. He only has his Decoy to dodge skill shots, which has high mana/high cool down
    2.Good damage, no skill shots but good damage
    3.Not that difficult to kill unless you let him get fed. Chasing a wu- he only has his w as an escape mechanism. Not tanky compared to Riven/Irelia/etc
    4. He has one form of cc, which is his ulti- and his decoy, that's all
    5.He does have high damage potential

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  64. Ryan HerminaMarch 16, 2015

    Difficulty of a champ is subjective. Some have it easier and some struggle.

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  65. Ryan HerminaMarch 16, 2015

    You lost me when you said Riven is tankier than Wukong and his escape is potentially really good. It depends on how you use it like in brushes and it's a good initiation move too. Also 50 - 70 mana isn't that much. And his one form of cc can change a team fight completely to your favor if it gets everyone. Plus it naturally deals damage. Fiora is less mobile that Wukong and has less options on escaping plus is a lot more easier to burst down cause she's naturally squishy and she has no cc yet she was still considered god tier only cause of her better early and insane damage and her only weakness were tanks and cc. Wukong has also better influence for the team with his Q and ult and i've seen plenty of wukongs in challenger matches. Also Wukong only really has struggles with Darius, Rene, Irelia, Garen and Lee and people don't even play most of those champs so much well except Rene, Irelia and lee. Riven i don't have any issues with and it was same skill match. Same with lee, if you get a sunfire early combined with ult then he shouldn't be able to win trades. Like i said before, wukong has more team influence than most bruisers. He's a lot more harder to burst than Riven. His cc is way more useful and trustworthy than Rene's and Riven and Irelia since even if he fails it, it still has a long duration and you can flash towards the rest and with Yasuo it's just insta gg. And with his stealth he can get in there more easily compared to other bruisers and his Q will make killing way more easier. Sure he can get cc bursted but that can be said to any champion.

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  66. What rank are you? Almost every single Wukong main I seen doesn't use the S juke that much/at all because of what I stated and I already said that it's good to use in a bush. It's also good for initiating yes but that doesn't give a really big window to initiate unless you're just off their vision. Decoy is the biggest mana drainer early game and you have to watch your mana, even with crystalline flask.

    Fiora is not god tier. I don't know what tier list you're going on here but there's a reason she is hardly ever played in Plat and up. (In plat, 2% of the time she's picked, in diamond/master it's less than 1%)
    Also going off, you seen Wukong in a lot of Challenger matches? Today out of 1800 matches approx. played, Wukong was played in 24 of them. That's 1.3%. Yesterday? He was played in .5% of challenger games. 24 matches can be said to be around 12 hours of video so it can seem to be a lot, so when you said you seen a lot of Wukongs in challenger, I find that hard to believe.

    LOL no, he struggles against so many Top lane champs. There's a difference between counters and HARD counters. Wukong has many counters- but he also has a lot hard counters compared to other champs. Darius, Renek, Rek'Sai, Olaf are a few that are considered Hard counters. I'll start naming some counters off if you want, Olaf, Sion, Pantheon, Gragas, Swain, Karma, Xin Zhao, Garen, Lee Sin, Riven, etc

    Riven again depends on the skill level, but a good riven isn't going to let you soft harass like a dumbass. A Riven who knows how to play should not lose to a Wukong unless ganked. It just means the Riven you played against wasn't good.

    Everything you're stating doesn't sound like you're in plat above. The reason why I'm saying Wukong doesn't deserve to be on this list is because one you get to higher elo- playing Wukong is way more difficult than before and has less uses than before because people know how to fight against a Wukong/won't panic when Wu uses his ulti. His utility isn't as useful as some others.

    His game changing ult? Enemy team won't panic and try to run away like dumbasses anymore and instead tries to cc you and split up so your ulti doesn't get everyone one. When I said him being cc bursted, he's not like other top lane champ who are tanks that can live a little longer and he'll die before he can really do anything.

    Okay you've been bringing up that his Q is amazing and all. Are you upgrading Q before E or something? Early game, the armor shread by Q is negligible- but the damage and attack speed buff from E is far better than Q. End game, his Q doesn't work well against Tanks even with armor shread items because Wu just can't win against Tanks.

    Also don't use Flash as a "Viable reason", Flash is a one in every five minute thing- it's unreliable to say "You can just use flash while ulting and it be gg" because of the long cool down.

    I main Wukong too but that doesn't mean I'll blindly say "OMGOSH HE'S THE BEST", of course he has his pro and he's a good champ and all, but that doesn't mean he's one of the strongest top laners

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  67. WhySoSerious?March 17, 2015

    "Master Yi's main draw as a high skillcap champion lies..." I'm sorry but did you just say high skill cap? More like R-E-Q-Yommus and Bork. :|

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  68. Ryan HerminaMarch 17, 2015

    I never said anything about him being the strongest. I just asked for an honorable mention since he can still be very useful. Also i was talking about the previous patches where wukong had the third highest winrate(not sure in ranked) and when Fiora WAS godtier alongside Wukong and it was said in THIS same website that they are(were) god tier and i'm talking about 4.9-5.2 patches(I think) though i don't take tiers so serious. And yes i do max Q first cause it uses less mana and it makes dueling easier in my opinion, but i also max E too at times. And i said with Yasuo + Wukong ult it's gg not flash and it's gg. And i'm not saying you should use the S juke, just saying that it can work, i would recommend doing it a lot obviously. Anyways you probably know better than me and what you say makes sense. I just think that Wukong can potentially be very good, not strongest obviously but at a good level. I'd like to spar with you one say since i'm also a Wukong main(duh), maybe you can teach me some stuff. I'm Silver II btw gonna do promos soon and get Gold after done with studying, Summoner name is Geezas.

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  69. Adrián D. MarmaiMarch 17, 2015

    look this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9yJM4bbQw .... high skillcap indeed....

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  70. I still don't think he should be an honorable mention however I do find him very good. It's just he's not in a good place at the moment with where the meta is (And has been for the past patches)

    The tier list determines who's where they should be by their winrate among other things but of course- majority of players are in Bronze - Gold which makes the list skewed to the lower ranks.

    Yasuo + Wukong is good yeah, I didn't reply to it because I agreed with it, but it's should be noted that this is a Soloqueue list and having a Wu/Yasuo makes it that your team won't have a AP (Unless it's a support but meh) which means you have to dominate your early/mid game b4 the enemies catches up.

    Wukong can potentially be very good I agree, but not to the point where he should be an honorable mention just because in terms of top lane phase, he's more of a situational champ due to how/where the meta is.

    I actually don't play anymore, quit just before 5.4, but I like to keep up with updates in case I ever join in again. You should really look up Allorim's Wukong build on Solomid, the challenger I mentioned that mains Wukong, he'll help a lot

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  71. Dr VanSexyMarch 17, 2015

    Nerfs are too great on his part, he is a just a shadow compared to his past.

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  72. Jay WilkesMarch 18, 2015

    PLEASE UPDATE THIS REGULARLY I BEG OF YOU!!

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  73. by those standards, Ryze and Ashe must be "high skillcap champions" as well, right? The only outplays a Yi can do is use Q when you see a skill being thrown at you, and W to reset an auto animation. That's literally all there is to him, no matter how masterful anyone can play him.

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  74. WhySoSerious?March 19, 2015

    Cowsep is a god in his own way and he makes some nice Qs. I enjoyed that video but if your gonna sit there and tell me that focusing timing one important skill makes it hard...you are farm from right. Let's be honest here: Do you think all the bronze/silver/gold/plat players play Master Yi because they are good at timing his Q or is it because of the faceroll that you do on your keyboard when you see the enemy?

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  75. King of Red OnionsMarch 21, 2015

    I think the biggest point is, strongest character when that character is mastered. It's not saying you have to be exceptionally good to be great with yi. It's saying if you can master Yi, regardless of how comparatively easy he is, he is one of the most powerful champions. It's a tier list, not a "These are the hardest champions" list.

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  76. Ryan HerminaMarch 21, 2015

    Okay then thanks.

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  77. metalbagelMarch 23, 2015

    Fizz jungle on here????
    it should be

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  78. wukong onlyMarch 24, 2015

    The S juke is horrible, I never used it at a platinum level. Either the enemies are stupid enough to attack the decoy thinking its the real you (bronze, silver) or smart enough to tell the difference between s juke and actually pressing w.

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  79. Basically the same as yours. Allorim build is what I based mine around
    Hydra -> Lw/Bc (Bc if they have a really tanky team) -> Youmuu/lw (Last whisper if I got Bc, Youmuu if I got lw)
    I personally don't get mobis on Wukong, but that's just my personal choice- it's almost always either merc treads or swifties for me.

    As a Wukong Top, there aren't really many variables you can change for Wukong other than the Bc/Youmuu change as those core items are essential to Wukong. Tank item is almost always Randuin + GA, sell the GA when it's popped for another defensive item.

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  80. i dont think ezreal should be up here. hes honestly pretty weak at killing tanks even in good hands. i think corki is somewhat stronger in terms of damage. hell even lucian is better in good hands compared to ezreal.

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  81. SpadeAce4444March 28, 2015

    so correct

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  82. SSJSuntasticMarch 28, 2015

    I don't know if you play super smash brothers or not, but the best explanation is to compare it to Marth. Most people are cstick spammers who play the champion. He does okay like that. However, at a professional level he's not good because he's a great cstick spammer, he's good because he can chain f-airs and chain grab like nobody's business.

    Similarly, Yi is not good at a perfect level because he right clicks real hard, he's good because he can outplay 90% of the spells in the game mid execution.

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  83. SSJSuntasticMarch 28, 2015

    This list specifically focuses on champions played at the highest level, which likely does not include anyone from bronze through gold and may also not include diamond or even human players.

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  84. SSJSuntasticMarch 28, 2015

    The list isn't supposed to change that much, but when riot guts a kit hard enough, even a very level of mastery can yield average results. There was a time when urgot was the most broken champion in the game, but alas he's been gutted.

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  85. Lies. Ezreal is fucking broken. I don't know what kind of dumb build you or your allies/enemies have been building but Ezreal wouldn't even be called an ADC if he couldn't demolish tanks one way or another.

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  86. Ignacio Nicolás BrandarizApril 02, 2015

    Ezreal gots a global ultimate, which can secure kills either steal barons/buffs (specially in low elo). He has a really good poke, a better steroid (Ezreal would be faster at destroying a Tower). But Lucian is a safer pick because he es easier to use, and therefore, easier for snowballing. Remember, it's hard to miss Lucian's Q, while is uncommon to see an Ezreal hitting every Q.

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  87. Alvi LoafiaApril 02, 2015

    Nice comparison

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  88. Champs like Trynd and Yi are high skill to play well.

    You say "they only right click", but thats right, they nearly ONLY auto attack and are squishy. They are melee ADCs, so your positioning, timing when to enter a fight, walk auto walk skill, determining who to focus and ability to dodge skills with your movement only all need to be much higher than when playing other champs because they have no skills to fall back on if they make a mistake. You make a mistake as a caster you have Zhonya, you make a mistake as a bruiser you have your tankyness to fall back on, you make a mistake with an ADC you have some kind of CC and a gap closer to use to get away. With trynd & yi neither of them have an escape or tankyness or CC to escape with.

    If you just run into a fight as trynd or Yi you get CCd and killed instantly. To be good with them means your other skills in the game have to be better than with other champions.

    I'm not saying they are the hardest champs to play or anything, but they are definitely one of the harder champs out there to play well. And the key words are play well.

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  89. You know, it doesn't really change through the patch, so, regular updates are not needed

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  90. Umm Jinx anyone? Jinx is the single BEST ADC right now. She MIGHT get dumpstered by Lucian and Ezreal sometimes but she IS the meta now.

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  91. Alberto RiosApril 13, 2015

    Jinx might be strong right now, but just basicaly because she hits hard and fast. Meanwhile the champions in this list are champs that with the right mechanics have high posibility to outplay anyone.

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  92. Salutations! I was just curious why there are only 3 supports while there are 5 of all the other categories?

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  93. TLR SonicBOOMApril 15, 2015

    lel anivia shud so be in strongest mid laners if mastered...

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  94. gonzalo sanz pascualApril 16, 2015

    what do you think about vel'koz? he is my main champ after i found out that if you can master him he will win in most cases his lanes even if you are vs assasins such as zed (of course you need a lot of practice).
    And i dont even want to mention the teamfights, with his stron AOE and ulti, it is a won teamfight!!

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  95. Not sure if this would be possible or what the best way to do it would be, but is there a way to post ratings for champions?

    For example, Xed and Ziggs have two very different focuses but play the same role. If you assumed that Xed is the better player once mastered but constantly lost the matchup because you could never get close and constantly got poked down it wouldn't make any sense. Yet if there was a rating system that said both were 85 out of 100 overall you would understand it's a closer matchup. Just seeing names next to each other doesn't always showcase or explain this.


    I suppose it also depends on what criteria you use. Also some of it would still be subjective but I know I'd be very interested in seeing SOME numbers behind rankings.

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  96. KeiisankiiApril 18, 2015

    I don't think people are getting this list.

    To those complaining about Yi.. There's a saying "Easy to play, hard to master." Yi is one of those champs.

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  97. MiD or FiDApril 20, 2015

    Renekton is pretty of for me especially after the 5.1 he converted into figther from tank i genarally use ghost/tp and Black Cleaver will be buffed in renektons favor and that Raptor Cloack is just so good having 480+ move speed mmmm

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  98. It would be cool to see this get an update

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  99. Fizz top was nerfed... blade of the ruined king no longer scales with his W which was turned into a dps over an instant damage that scales off of ap. Ap tank fizz is rare, and Ad tank fizz WAS viable but no longer is. WTH is this thread saying that the new fizz w scales with botrk? liek wut?

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  100. Wukong is one of the top soloq top laners nowadays. Also on a professional level Wukong is played on the jungle. So, yeah.

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  101. AD CarriedApril 29, 2015

    Read the patch version, it's outdated by 3 patches.

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  102. "opening da gates" doesen't work, unless you first lose 60% games in the process.

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  103. Abdallah RefaieeApril 30, 2015

    i wanna ask u man what about velkoz ? im good at velkoz
    if i faced mid laner like zed i can get exhaust and get him
    but im still not that mastering for velkoz
    if i mastered him what u think about him if i mastered him ?

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  104. WaddledeeguyApril 30, 2015

    I think vel is definitely really strong when mastered. Keep going with him. I think he deserves at least an honorable mention.

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  105. can you update it??

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  106. needs an update! for the current tank meta

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  107. well as junglers diana is best jungler

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