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SEASON 3 - PATCH 3.10 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
Preface Chatter
I've got a little time on my hands so I'll pop up this tier list less than a week after the patch is released. Since it's still early, there will likely be a Patch 3.10 v2 Tier List released at a later date.
Nerfs: Elise, Fiddlesticks, Karthus, Twisted Fate, Vayne, Zac, Ryze
Buffs: Ashe, Malzahar
Tweaks:
Reworks: Master Yi
The Tier List
God Tier:
Mid-Lane Gods: Kassadin
Jungle Gods: Amumu, Jarvan IV, Fiddlesticks, Rammus, Sejuani
AD Gods:
Top Lane Gods: Singed, Wukong
Support Gods: Janna, Sona
Tier 1:
Mid-Lane: Zyra, Kennen, Malzahar, Twisted Fate, Ahri, Diana, Jayce
Jungle: Master Yi, Zac, Nasus, Hecarim, Cho'Gath, Evelynn, Nautilus, Lee Sin, Volibear, Maokai, Shyvana
AD Carry: Caitlyn, Varus, Vayne, Graves, Tristana, Miss Fortune, Ezreal, Kog'Maw, Quinn, Corki, Draven, Twitch
Top Lane: Tryndamere, Master Yi, Kennen, Renekton, Yorick, Jayce, Jarvan IV, Nidalee, Jax, Elise, Irelia, Riven, Lee Sin, Udyr
Support: Thresh, Nami, Taric, Blitzcrank, Leona
Tier 2:
Mid-Lane: Lux, Brand, Kayle, Annie, Fizz, Mordekaiser, Talon, Vladimir, Viktor, Elise, Anivia, Nidalee, Zed, Kha'Zix, Cho'Gath, Swain, Orianna, Xerath, Katarina, Evelynn, Karthus, Ziggs
Jungle: Nocturne, Elise, Udyr, Aatrox, Nunu, Shen, Kha'Zix, Warwick, Malphite, Leona, Shaco, Vi, Trundle, Xin Zhao, Rengar, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Ashe, Sivir
Top Lane: Kayle, Rumble, Rengar, Swain, Teemo, Aatrox, Kha'Zix, Vladimir, Nasus, Shen, Gangplank, Cho'gath, Zac, Darius, Volibear, Garen, Zed, Malphite
Support: Lulu, Soraka, Zyra, Alistar
Tier 3:
Mid-Lane: Morgana, Lissandra, Ryze, Akali, Pantheon, Cassiopeia, Galio, Sion, Gragas, Lulu, Fiddlesticks
Jungle: Fiora, Riven, Pantheon, Dr. Mundo, Skarner, Jax, Kayle, Darius
AD Carry:
Top Lane: Fiora, Shyvana, Warwick, Xin Zhao, Ryze, Nunu, Pantheon, Akali, Galio, Talon, Trundle, Dr. Mundo, Poppy
Support: Nunu, Nautilus, Shen, Morgana, Lux, Fiddlesticks, Nidalee
Tier 4:
Mid-Lane: Syndra, Veigar, Karma, Kog'maw, Zilean, Leblanc, Soraka, Tristana, Janna, Ezreal, Heimerdinger
Jungle: Tryndamere, Olaf, Gangplank, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry: Urgot
Top Lane: Urgot, Olaf
Support: Kayle, Malphite, Gangplank, Elise, Maokai, Yorick, Lissandra, Karma, Ashe, Zilean, Leblanc, Caitlyn
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions in Italics may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
Champion Explanations
- Aatrox - (Jungle) Aatrox Jungle is fairly strong, with a decent early game and good gap closer. He does seem to be a bit lacking in the meat shield department, but his passive makes up for it somewhat and he still works well if you have a tanky top and support.
- AD Carries - I feel like all the AD carries are very even now in terms of sheer numbers. The only difference is in their range and kits, and that of course depends on the match-ups and player mentality. After the Draven and golem nerfs, the only imbalanced picks bot lane are the supports.
- Ashe - Minor buff, was nice, but nothing to write home about.
- Elise - Major nerfs to her ganking and chasing potential, and her poke/harass potential was diminished greatly as well. She's still really strong, but definitely has a steeper learning curve in terms of when to trade and use her skills now. Her jungling strength was also slapped down by the rappel nerf.
- Fizz - Fizz gets a lot of notice, since when he snowballs, he snowballs HARD. However, he still suffers from the same things that other melee glass cannons suffer - if he fails gimping the ad carry in the initial burst, he's a sitting duck with no CDs or health to survive, although building RoA can help.
- Jarvan IV - After the repeated nerfs to other junglers, Jarvan's rising back up into powerhouse status.
- Karthus - Karthus nerfs hurt him a decent amount, and was aimed mostly at his late game face-roll suicidal dominance. He'll come back eventually when we least expect it, but he's subpar at the moment in terms of sheer numbers.
- Lissandra - Lissandra is...okay, she's got a safe laning phase and a decent ultimate, but because she places herself directly in harm's way to deal her damage, if the team can't follow up on it then she dies very quickly. Her laning phase is good and her potential is high, but you need to also need good follow-up.
- Lux - She'll always fluctuate between Tiers 1 and 2 just like AP Nidalee. Her potential level is very high, but so is her failure level. She needs to be placed on a team that's willing to wait for the perfect time to strike, and not initiate directly after she misses both her CCs...which teams tend to do for some strange reason...
- Master Yi - Master Yi is OP right now. AP Yi is dead, but his AD counterpart has been buffed to a whole new level. He's definitely not god-tier since he's counterable with the right team (think Malphite/Jarvan/Rammus), but his damage, clear speed, and ganking strength is pretty slick. His rework has also brought back the most hated strategy since Season 1...backdoor splitpush Yi.
- Nunu - Nunu's a little meh right now. It's not as fun to invade when the success rate is diminished by the nerfs.
- Rengar - I'll give credit when credit is due. His early game is very strong, and his mid-game is also very strong. However, if you can wait him out until late game, his build options limit him to either a glass melee fighter or a tanky fighter with tiny burst output. He's alright, but I think he won't be amazing until the rework.
- Ryze - His tweak was indeed a nerf. His ability to trade is very limited now compared to before.
- Shyvana - Her buffs have made her very strong...for those of you who doubt the strength of junglers without CC, just think back to the month after M5 made Shyvana a top pick last season.
- Thresh - Thresh is still a play-maker, but his tweaks have made him more fragile during his jump-into-the-fray mode. Janna and Sona are really much more consistent picks in terms of safety and utility.
- Twisted Fate - His nerfs definitely hurt his overall win rate by quite a bit, and the nerf on his pick-a-card has diminished his ability to mind-game. However, in terms of sheer damage he was untouched, so his mid-game ganking burst and late game utility are still good.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
JANGLE KARMA!
ReplyDeleteAbout Twisted Fate:
ReplyDeleteLike SSJ said his damage is untouched so his burst is still from the God material but his gameplay is quiet different...
Needs a time & mind to master the gipsy again like old time.
Let me explain...
His Pick A Card had 10sec of duration from the card selection till the end now its split in 2 you got 8sec to pick a card and 4 to throw it! On paper its not a nerf but a tweak...In reality you feel it like a nerf if you stuck with the old manner of using it! and its fking annoying!
Let's split it in 3 different manner of using it
Lock Card before TP(Dangerous since you will have like less than 2 sec to throw your card after gating)
Lock Card during TP (Activate before or while gating to your destination)
Lock Card after TP (Activate before or while gating to your destination)
Now you will have to spend more time in the Card Selection (if you are not in hurry to stun someone very close to you) than locking to your Gold asap you get it!
Hope you understood the "new" trick. :)
Hey, I like the updated tier list, but why is support fiddlesticks tier 3, a 3 second fear at max rank is really strong, good sustain with w and silence
ReplyDeleteCan you write at the begininng of thread who go up and who go down after patch?
ReplyDeleteStill an exotic pick imo and i think in the eyes of SSJ too.
ReplyDeleteFiddle performs way better Mid/Jungle.
Diamond Style :)
ReplyDeleteIm still not sure about Shyvana. She still doesn't match up the best.
ReplyDeleteShyvana Vs Yi atm isn't fun.
That said, every Shyvana game other then that I won, but, Yi just clears too fast to keep up and control against while his ganking is still better then hers.
Yi needs nerfs. They gave AD Yi everything that AD Yi had before and the stupid playstyle of AP at the same time. Best of both worlds.
I would change Yi from "Rework" to "Rework and Buffed".
There is no doubt his power increased.
I just watched a gold/diamond ranked game yesterday where Shyvana stomped Singed (considered a "God" in this list) in top lane. I don't know if anyone considers her one of his strong opponents, but it was pretty 1 sided. He was playing Singed well and just couldnt scratch her 1v1. He'd run, try and mist her (kited for awhile), then she'd just swoop and nomnom him. As for Yi, unless you're Rammus, nobody is fun playing against him anymore. Totally agree on the Buffed.
ReplyDeleteFYI - Saw a Swain destroy WuKong in top lane yesterday if anyone is looking for a counter.
ReplyDeleteThatta guy!! Malphite on the support tier even if its tier 4 :D
ReplyDeleteThis would be cool, but it isn't needed.
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly did they do to Karthus?
ReplyDeletei swear this Tier List is Opinion Based and it makes noobs look at this look bad it should really be looked at more and its getting really annoying this tier list is by far the worst ive seen.
ReplyDeleteJust my 2 cents
What was the name of the Shyvana I did the same thing the other day and I'm curious if it was me you were watching.
ReplyDeleteInteresting updates. Btw, since Karma saw professional play over the past week: Told you she was good. :P
ReplyDeleteSejuani still freezing the jungle, but is reliant on a team to do the damage for her. I don't see many Junglers be able to carry a team other than Yi. Mumu can also kinda carry but Yi is just ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI too am interested in watching that. Low evers, Shyvana should win and if she wins well, getting bork quickly would make her dangerous.
ReplyDeleteI would like to watch this.
Tryndamere and Fiora are stronger picks for split pushing, team fights and 1v1. Just not in the jungle. Your list reflects that Yi gives more to a team, which I strongly disagree with.
ReplyDeleteElise nerfs weren't that bad. She's definitely up their with Wukong for top lane and definitely a tier 1 jungler. Of course that's my biased opinion because I'm an Elise main.
ReplyDeleteBut Shyvana...Really?
Hi Hei Wu, I'm sorry you feel that way, any input you have to make it better?
ReplyDeleteI will think about it, I do already highlight all the major changes in the giant block of text below the list though.
ReplyDeleteI've seen it work before :P
ReplyDeleteYes, Shyvana is quite strong, you'd be surprised what a few buffs can do for her :)
ReplyDeleteHi WindAeris, I know you're a giant Fiora fan, but I'd be a little hard-pressed to be convinced that Fiora is a better split pusher than Yi! Her 1v1 is certainly better though.
ReplyDeleteShe's aiite, very easy to mess up though.
ReplyDeleteHi John, they reduced the AP ratio on his defile.
ReplyDeleteI pay attention to suggestions :)
ReplyDeleteI think vi needs to be moved up. She counters a lot of the more common jungles and her kit is fairly easy to learn. Being able to negate nunu and yi needs some sort of recognition. Id say pantheon is also similar here but doesnt snowball as well.
ReplyDeleteOne paper it's good, but in game it's a little meh. The fact is that if fiddle starts up his drain, then in a 2v2 situation he's lost the majority of his damage. It takes a special type of player to play support Fiddle well, and also needs someone with a good knowledge of how to trade and when to engage. Less can be said about Sona.
ReplyDeleteYou say it's a counter unless you have more data points. Maybe if you can see Swain destroy Wukong 7 out of 10 times, perhaps. And you may have to factor in jungler skill/visits too.
ReplyDeleteYou could just look at the patch notes posts on this very site about buffs and nerfs, there's usually a summary up top.
ReplyDeleterengar is a ad character
ReplyDeleteGenerally speaking, I'd classify junglers as either contributing damage or CC to a team. The ones who contribute CC, like Sejuani, have a hard time carrying absolutely terrible teammates, but they can be useful to a team where the lanes will properly react to proper jungle support, which I believe is an assumption that this guide makes.
ReplyDeleteOn the opposite end of the spectrum, champions like Yi who provide little to no CC, but a lot of damage, tend to the be the ones who get the kills during ganks, and tend to snowball themselves, as opposed to their team. As a result, they fill in a different position on a team.
I'd say that overall, "support" junglers are better than "damage" junglers, but I'll openly admit that I prefer helping my team to snowball over snowballing myself.
Agree with you Wind
ReplyDeleteTrue dat!
ReplyDeleteHey SSJ, another really well thought out tier list.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Vi, I know Justin mentioned that she should be higher and I have to agree. She goes great with a dive comp and her innate armor shred and percentage damage makes her a strong pick. I think she is sharing the same benefits as J4(all the other junglers getting nerfed), just to a lesser extent. Great job nonetheless.
P.S. I vote for Zyra God Tier support.
She is quiet a Tier 1 material but God Tier?
ReplyDelete- Her Q can be thought to land
- The ultimate can be very situational... (also can get canceled by CC ?)
Situational why? because she is a bit a like Leona E if the team doesn't follow or you get into a trap(or both) there are no way to go back...
It's those kind of champions Double or Quit !
For Zyra in God support...wonder why since she isn't originally a support and has 0 support benefit (Heal/Shield/Buff)
I guess you got lost in SSJ description about Rengar.
ReplyDeleteHe gave 2 type of Rengar the glass-canon style (Pure AD Damage) low in HP/Resistance and the total opposite with really small burst which is a must if your team lack in taking damage during team fight which in case you don't want...it might be the main reason to a defeat. (nuff said :))
I kinda have problem to believe in this as well SSJ :(
ReplyDeleteLast time i saw a Shyvana (2days ago) she was awesome to ruin our fiddlesticks ultimate (i let your imagination work on this one ^^)
Zyra and Kennen imo are not tier 1 mid laners. I feel like Ahri and Annie have a solid spot in Tier 1 as well. Annie is so easy to use, and has barely any counters. Ahri has a free escape/intiate with great wave clear and roaming potential. As for supports I feel like thresh deserves god tier, simply because of his kit is way to strong. You also underestimate fiddles support, and it probably deserves a spot in tier 1 as well. 3 sec fear is so brutal, ADC's never get any kind of tenacity, save for QSS/cleanse, but then you can target someone else.
ReplyDeleteU should look at Vi, after the nerf of other jungler´s me and my brother hes diamond 2 and I´m gold V and we are having a HUGE success with her (tanky build Golem, Solari, Spirit Visage and LW ) definetly she is in a really strong place right now.
ReplyDeleteThink itemization - Ravenous Hydra is common on Fiora. With kits only, Yi is far better.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't Ahri be in Tier 1?
ReplyDeleteI'd have to agree with where Fiddlestick is in the God Tier. He is just so very powerful. You don't even need hunter machete to get through it. Just get a tome, and all the buffs can be solo at level one. Not to mention at level 4 with blue buff he can solo dragon. He is like a Shaco's beginning just slower. I have jungle as Fiddlestick for awhile. Hell I got my first quadra as Fiddlesticks. Sick ultimate, but Shyvana does deserve her spot. I was playing against one yesterday I believe and she as amazing at shutting down my ganks by countering me. And even when I could turn it upon her, she is simply too fast.
ReplyDeleteQuinn in Tier 1?
ReplyDeleteShe's one of my favorite champions in the game, but I'm surprised to see the sudden jump to Tier 1, SSJ. What items would you say are good for her, and what makes her Tier 1 in your eyes?
when did Kog and Quinn became tier 1? I'm glad but last time I checked here they were much lower on the list
ReplyDeleteAs someone who mains Talon, I am pretty happy someone agrees with me on the fact that he belongs above Zed and Khaz, though to me, that is because he has more over AoE damage than the other two. Could you give me your opinion on his current state maybe? Do you think it'd be possible for me to go Gold, Plat or maybe even Diamond just playing Him and Annie?
ReplyDeleteJust wonder for a tier list opinion I guess.
I don't think Quinn deserves a tier 1, i was actually playing against one that wasn't very bad and she couldn't carry or help the team even when she was far ahead (almost like 6/1), she has decent damage output and a very good chase/escape kit great for adcs but still i don't think she deserves to be at the same spot as others adc (maybe not tier 2 but i think draven or twitch have more to give to the team than Quinn)
ReplyDeleteJarvan mid should be in tier 1 list, his burst lvl 2-4 and 6 is stupidly high, and if the enemy has 30- armor you can just poke to death him with your Q early and finish him with your full combo, he also is very difficult to gank
ReplyDeleteFor split pushing. As a champion, Fiora's kit and itemization is better.
ReplyDeletewell anyways im coming back and i realized you changed some stuff and i didnt want to hate so hard but i think you should relook at it abit more. It will improve if you work on it a lil bit. Also im not sure if its in order. Also i believe zac should be higher and also not sure about ashe being that low i feel she is really strong right now(that ulti to catch people). and before i recalled you putting j4 much lower and you finnaly put him higher. also nami's bubble got changed for .5 seconds but i think she should be higher. Top lane rengar is Amazing in soloQ and gets banned in high elo games for a reason. those are just some small things i saw i think ill come back to point some things out but just keep working on it. Im my comment below 8 people agree to that hate msg lol
ReplyDeleteYes, she should, not sure why I have her in Tier 2 at the moment...ninja edit time :P
ReplyDeleteIt's a constant work in progress Hei Wu, I'm not so arrogant to think I'm always right. Zac's been hit with a few nerfs recently, and while I agree he's still really good, I'm not sure if he hangs with the best anymore.
ReplyDeleteAshe is always tricky too, since against a team without gap closers her near infinite kiting potential will definitely shine hard, but against teams with strong assassins and juking abilities (Zed) she's a little sub-par.
Rengar is strong in lane and mid-game, but he does tend to fall off if he doesn't snowball hard enough. I did have him too low in the past update though.
Nami's definitely very strong. I had her in god tier before, but I think that Sona and Janna are just a step more consistent.
I think it's very possible to get to any one of those levels playing either one of those two. Mid-lane is also very much clear/roam/gank oriented as well, and both those champions are very good at that.
ReplyDeleteI think Talon's still decent mid, but seeker's armguard hurt him substantially. I don't think he's very good top.
Before I wanted a clear distinction between the AD Carries, but then I realized there really isn't. Quinn and Kog might not be FOTM at the moment, but they can still carry a game very hard with the right supports.
ReplyDeleteShe's got good chasing power/burst/poke potential, and in terms of AD carries I feel like they're all pretty similar now. Before it was whoever can survive against Draven and MF the longest in lane was the best, now it's up in the air.
ReplyDeleteThat's true, I'll take another look at Vi. I don't think she's quite at Tier 1, but she may move up in Tier 2.
ReplyDeleteShyvana does much better against AD champions :P
ReplyDeletePRO LIST TY
ReplyDeleteGotta say, SSJ. You (and everyone else) seriously underestimate AP kog'maw in solo queue. An organized, skype team is going to destroy him for obvious reasons. A group of random strangers? highly unlikely they can clear the enormous distances to stop his farming, and late game he's pretty much untouchable.
ReplyDeleteAs another note, galio in pretty much EVERY position. Spirit visage is too powerful of an item on him, and I don't think it's possible to lose your lane with it. You become a brick wall after about 1400 gold.
ReplyDeleteI'm just a lv 26 player but... Regarding to this tier list, Janna/Ezreal mid are worse than Soraka mid... Isn't a bit wrong?
ReplyDeleteJust my noobie opinion :P
For the God tier and Tier 1 champs, could you leave up the original explanation about why you think they're so strong in a separate section? Only started reading this last month and I'm guessing some of them have been there for a long time.
ReplyDeleteI say shyv is a very viable top, I mean you don't need to spamming you're w to dominate the minion farm and push. She can last hit very well with q and with CDR runes and a kindlegem to start, I have my q very quickly. I have won 4 games in a row with these tanky brick wall tops like shyv and udyr and even shen who I'm shocked is not tier 1.
ReplyDeleteHey I like the list, glad to see you moved Viktor up... I think his kit takes a lot of thought to be used properly but he's real powerful for most of the game, peaking before most champions in the game. Question, I see at low leagues Shen being banned a lot, but on this list he's a low tier 2... can low players just not handle his ult or why is he not so high on this list?
ReplyDeleteSoraka mid is more powerful than most people give her credit for, really. I'd give her an edge over Janna mid, certainly.
ReplyDeleteWhether or not Ezreal mid is better than Soraka mid depends on the build, really. I've seen people build AP Ezreal mid, but I don't think that's particularly strong. On the other hand, non-blue AD Ezreal seems to be okay mid, perhaps better than Soraka mid. Then again, I'd say Ezreal mid is underplayed (for a reason) and I don't have enough experience with it to truly evaluate his standing.
Another thing to consider is that this is a solo queue tier list, and "specialty" champions who work best with more specific team compositions tend to fair worse. Janna mid being a prime example, in that as a mid she contributes very little over support Janna, but the additional disengage can be useful on certain teams. I'd probably take Gragas over Janna for mid most of the time, though, since his ult serves a similar function and he can contribute more damage than Janna.
As an amendment to what I wrote, I'd like to mention that this is purely my opinion and that I'm hardly qualified to make objective statements about the game.
ReplyDeleteAlso, SSJ, what do you think about Sona mid? I'd say she's worth including on the tier list for being roughly equal in strength to some of the other Tier 4 mids.
Why Ahri in tier 1 now?
ReplyDeleteAnd what do you think about people saying Amumu is a "bronze pick or ban"?
The thing about Aatrox is that he needs to snowball. Needs. If Aatrox doesn't snowball he becomes near useless and that is why I think he isn't seen too often in competitive play. Because of this, I feel like jungling with Aatrox is much more suitable to his needs than top laning, because snowballing is a bit easier as an aggressive jungler. When you're laning, there are a lot of factors that determine whether or not you can snowball. One being farm, two being getting ganked, and three being that your solo top lane opponent may be much more practiced than you. But when you're jungling, farm isn't as abundant, but it isnt an issue either. Aatrox isn't totally susceptible to counter jungling either, and the only two real things you need to worry about when jungling with Aatrox is being caught off guard by the other jungler, and getting enough kills. So yes I do agree with this List. Aatrox is fairly balanced and belongs in tier 2.
ReplyDeleteWAIT! Sona a support god? WHAT?!? She has been nerfed so much, now she is kind of meh, very meh
ReplyDeletenot to be rude but they obviously werent that great. she has a very different playstyle. one of the few people i can get a penta with. she is lots of fun but you have to have the right team. she is kinda like vayne. without the right team she can suffer a lot.
ReplyDeleteyou must not see many zyras or kennens but they are strong mid laners. they both carry so much cc that its completely ridiculous. i think thats why he put them there. they can cc an entire team while doing insane damage. in the end they do way more damage than ahri and annie due to their abilities hitting more than one person. not saying ahri and annie aren't great cause i love them too. and i agree on the thresh thing. he is stupid strong pretty much no matter what
ReplyDeleteI agree but i want to put out there that Sej with rylai's and liandry's can do so much damage it's kind of scary. I can usually come out of a game with one of the higher damages with those two incorporated into a tank build.
ReplyDeleteOthers got nerf and since huge nerf on Taric and Soraka
ReplyDelete(because you seem to have been sleeping a rock with that reaction)
Janna & Sona got resurected followed by Nami who received nice buff and Tresh got tweaked/nerf to something more apropriate :)
About Ahri it's kinda a come back
ReplyDeleteshe didn't get any buff but since some got nerf she is like seeing some light and fame again she never stopped to be great !
Just the fact a champion is super good and kinda between abused or OP let's say! we had great exemple with Nunu not long ago and boom dissapeared im sure the pick rate of nunu dropped of atleast 5 even 10%...
Sick when you actualy may realize he is style great but not broken so people are like "its nerfed its shit" WRONG !
Amumu must back pick ? just HueHue at their face....this time is over...
Agreed that galio is very strong at the moment. Ap tank with scaling defensive stats and an aoe ult is annoying. I expect heroes start packing wits end and abyssal specters.
ReplyDeleteNami and zyra are seeing more play lately. Ive seen some very strong plays by both heroes. Both should be tier 1 supports, if not god tier.
hey, im a long time League player and i would like to compliment you on your list on everything except for a couple small mistakes, first id like to say since this is a solo que quide you should have shaco in your god tier as jungle, with his kiting abilities, his capability to have a double flash, his tower diving abilities and the fact that his passive gives 20% more damage from behind the target which to excape a gank you have to turn tail and run seeing as wards cant detect a good shaco. next id like to ask you about zilean and moving him to a tier 1 or god support, his revive takes away from the opposing teams adc kills and he has a speed buff when utilized correctly can help chase ealy and late game prioviding constant kills for a good team. plus his area of effect damage help him to secure assist in team fights and provides a revive to the carry.
ReplyDeleteHey, another question from me would be: Why did you put Syndra in Tier 4? I am really interested in that because I've realized, I can get fed with Syndra extremely easily, but somehow always lose the game, and that only seems to happen with her.
ReplyDeleteDo you think she lacks late game or team fight capabilities? Because I consider her to have one of the best Laning phases personally, sometimes even against AD assassins.
Morgana's got to be at least near the top of tier 2.
ReplyDeleteI've found the same thing to be true for a lot of people. Personally I think it has to do with her set-up time to ramp up the perfect combo. In a teamfight there are a lot of moving parts, which makes it hard for her to hit her full potential.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile in lane, you can easily chip down at your enemy 1v1 and set up the perfect field, since they have nowhere else to go.
Syndra :(((((((
ReplyDeleteTBH i dont think they are called gods because of lane match ups but rather because the impact they have on the team. Sure singed may get stomped my shyvana but think of the late game impact of shyvana and singed. Singed clearly wins with all he really needs is a rylais and archangel staff. They are called gods because of the impact that champ has on the game rather than how they can stomp a lane
ReplyDeletei highly disagree with karma tier 4, i think he damage output and poke are very strong. and can harass someone out of lane and just farm in lane.
ReplyDeleteWaaiiit, whats with Kennen sneaking up to the top of Tier 1 like the little Ninja he is?
ReplyDeleteIs he really on par with Tryn?
"I am the wind" - Kennen
ReplyDeleteGood point, but you're forgetting the major champions that are also hanging out in mid. Some of them counter Karma and others have more burst damage and can out sustain. Her poke is strong though, I'll give you that.
ReplyDeleteBut when I think of mid champions like Talon and Brand... or even the Godly Kassadin...
However, you're right about how low she is. I don't think she belongs in Tier 3, but if she does, at the bottom.
ReplyDeleteHi SSJ, I'm a platinum jungler main (NA: Enright) and I've always find that parts of your jungle list differ drastically from my personal experiences on ranked. One thing that specifically stood out to me was the in this list was the drop for Elise all the way to T2. I main Elise jungle (70%+win rate) and even though the impact on her Rappel is quite noticeable, I don't feel that any of her 3.10 changes really changed much of her effectiveness. Elise still has a kit making her one of the very best gap closers in the game and her damage wasn't nerfed at all from last patch. I don't feel that putting her in the same tier as Shen/Trundle is merited at all.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, I've always been curious what the justification is for the constant classification of Rammus as a jungle god. His damage is pretty low, has a very bad clear time, can't catchup if he falls behind, is very mana intensive, has no reliable way to get to high priority backline targets in 5v5 teamfights. I never see him picked in my ranked games, the LCS, or jungle streamers that I watch (Oddone, Meteos, Cyanide mainly). I feel like he's overrated by people with low elo mentality who think you can't ward against him. Why evidence do you feel justifies this god tier lable?
Hey SSJ, just saying, maybe I can tell you who was moved up and down and what not. I could give you the whole list if you want :D
ReplyDeleteYou forgeted to put a place for Yi mid, since his ad output is high and most of the mid champions are squish against ad champions. I thought it can have a place at tier 2 or 1 easily.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Gangplank in Tier 2 now? Just curious, maybe it was a typo? Or maybe the item changes helped to affect his potency? Could you elaborate on that?
ReplyDeleteMantheon tier 3? Not even a mid character? Lol
ReplyDeletemundo jungle tier 3? i guess people underestimate him a lot..his clears are fast albeit negative sustain, duels like a tiger and is essentially a health sponge late game. grab exhaust with smite and his ganks become better.
ReplyDeleteLux should be on God Tier. Even if she loses the lane and gets focused horribly, she can do incredible damage to the enemy team thanks to the AOE burst and shield to negate some damage (which is pathetically powerful)
ReplyDeletetotally agree. she may have a terrible dps, but she is the most annoying mage in the game because of her hard CC and huge magic shield
ReplyDeleteSeconding this. What's changed to make Gangplank more viable?
ReplyDeleteTanky champs definitely can contribute damage, Sejuani more than many others. Part of her damage output comes from stacking health.
ReplyDeleteStill, her role in a fight is to soak damage and CC, not provide the damage to kill the entire enemy team. In laning phase, before she's got those items, she's all about CC, not damage. My "support" versus "damage" jungler bit refers to the laning phase more than the late game.
This is probably a stupid question, but how is Fiora tier 3 top lane? Seems like she should be 4 IMO.
ReplyDeleteWukong Top lane God? What? I beat every wukong, I find with Pantheon.
ReplyDeleteRammus is god tier because of his ridiculously amazing utility. 500 MS to chase in a team fight, then he just taunts their adc for 3 SECONDS and an easy kill.
ReplyDeleteHey Peter what's up? What I've found is that Elise is very strong early on, and she definitely does a good amount of damage/scales well. She might be in the same tier as Shen and Trundle, but she's at the top of it, probably closer to Tier 1, really just depends on the player's ability to hit that skillshot.
ReplyDeleteRammus as jungle god has always been somewhat dependent on the other junglers in the game. His damage isn't enough to carry, but the main problem is he can gank from pretty much any angle, even past wards. Similar to TF, his ability to be everywhere on the map faster than expected (especially with homeguard + mobility), really allows him to have good presence throughout the map.
Of course, when other junglers like Nunu or Vi just happened to have an excessive amount of stats, their success rate in any given gank or counterjungle would outclass other champions. Rammus on the other hand, has always been more of a utility-based champion that would sometimes get smashed down by overpowered champions from stats alone.
Sometimes it's because of the way high level play and the other 98% of the player population works out, things that work almost constantly simply don't work in higher level play. Strangely enough, platinum is still something like the top 2% of the population, which is why I have a few accounts spread out over a few Elos that I play on to get a feel for each tier.
Hi Josh, thanks for visiting :) Shaco's definitely good, and I'm a big fan of a good Shaco on my team. On the other hand, he's also a big squishy if he doesn't get snowballing, and can be a huge liability against AOE team comps.
ReplyDeleteZilean's a very underplayed champion, I may be giving him less credit than due. He hasn't been highly played since around when Ahri was released if I remember correctly...it's been a while!
Hi Mikhail, Gangplank's actually got pretty decent damage output and utility, his main issue earlier that dropped him so low was the fact that so many top laners like Darius, Kayle, and Jayce had the ability to simply bully him out of lane from level 1. While he's still not anywhere close to where he used to be, he's no longer the pushover he was a few patches back.
ReplyDeleteBuilding elemental on him also makes up for a lot of his flaws (waveclear, cc, survivability, etc.)
Wow. Haha thanks!
ReplyDeleteAhri's always been pretty decent, it's just that certain heroes outclassed and outdamaged her for a while, like Zed and Khazix would one shot her every time she tried to cast a spell after level 6.
ReplyDeleteAfter nerfing champions that destroy her and the advent of the Seeker's armguard, she's back to viability, and her roaming, poke, and damage are all very strong.
Amumu is strong is all Elos, as for Bronze I guess he's still good. Personally I think that his late game bandage toss is way more annoying than his ultimate; with some CDR it's almost impossible to ever escape.
Thanks, I have a lot of time on my hands :D
ReplyDelete? quin was like last teir a week ago. i still find her awful
ReplyDeleteI don't get how even AP Nidalee is a tier above Morgana.
ReplyDeleteI really think Quinn deserves a place in jungle.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Mundo is that if he tanks, he doesn't have any peel (slow is nice, but any decent enemy champion with a gap closer will stick right next to a target just fine). And if his damage is too low it's way too easy to ignore him and head straight for the back line.
ReplyDeleteThough exhaust is actually a great idea. :)
Can Singed really carry a game?
ReplyDeletekk thanks for the insight..
ReplyDeleteprioritize maxing heal (w) and watch the enemy laner lose via attrition (unless they have their own form of shield/sustain aswell)
ReplyDeleteward brushes to be able to anticipate hooks/immobilizes against blitz/thresh/leona/naut
Her burst is actually deceptively high once 6 and no her ult isn't a channeled ability; albeit a moderately long delay before it strikes.
ReplyDeleteFor support zyra her seeds can be set up like caitlyn's traps and bushwacks to anticipate ganks PLUS additional poke/cc once she casts a spell. It doesn't cost anything and uses the ammo system (like shrooms and essense of shadow). As an added boon if the game goes on long enough she can go support carry mode and build like how would a mid zyra will and deal tons of damage on top of the crowd control and peel.
Just my 2 cents :)
I think Lissandra is definitely --- at least --- tier 2, roaming with her is just really really powerful.
ReplyDeleteSo according to your logic, why isn't Ashe an AD Carry god?
ReplyDeletegragas should be at least 2, if not 1.
ReplyDeleteI really dont think ryze belongs in tier 3 for solo q. Athene got to diamond from scratch in 2 weeks playing a GP10 build that really gets around his nerf. Ive been playing this build and must say that its insane for solo q. your team can get beat up to no end and you can still snowball and carry the game. He was in tier 2 before they nerfed murmana, his range, and banshee veil. That clues me into thinking he being underestimated here.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think the GP10 ryze build is god tier for solo q
ap mid zyra op. insane damage and cc with passive cdr and getting blues. it brings so much cc and damage to a team. especially if you rush a rylais. just carried 18/6/12, 7/0/7, and 13/3/3 after not playing her in about 4 weeks or so. youre untouchable with all your cc and your damage is unmatched.
ReplyDeletewhy did you not comment on your nerf to zac?
ReplyDeleteWhere is Sion top lane?!
ReplyDeleteI know you have Tryndamere top of Tier 1 but i really believe he is 'god tier' material. Only chance against him is with jungle help pre 6 even then he has his E to spin away with. You cant trade with him early if he has full fury because of the broken 35% crit chance and the built in sustain wears down the enemy laners. Add in him being mana-less and you have an uber annoying laner. Really only a couple picks come to mind that do well alright against him right now: jax, malph, nasus, and none of these picks are very popular. I wont go much into his split push potential but we all know how fun that is...
ReplyDeleteTop Nidalee is Ad or AP? And why Syndra is so low? I don't say she is good but i wonder why you placed her here.
ReplyDeleteWukong has amazing poke potential, and though he is weak Pre-6, once he gets his ult, along with help from a jungler, he can take pantheon down. You also have to remember that Pantheon is a counter to Wukong, with that shield that he has being very hazardous to Wukong. My name is my name ingame so you can talk to me there if you disagree.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Zilean exactly in tier 4? I feel like he is just underplayed, but he brings a lot of utility, poke, and aoe, and a free guardian angel to any person on the team. Is he in tier 4 for the same reasons as Syndra, too high skillcap? Because I feel like a good Zilean, just like Syndra, is absolutely devastating.
ReplyDeleteI not disagree, I only disagree on the counter part. Since counter does not matter, skill does.
ReplyDeletewith a 52% win rate? meh
ReplyDeleteExcuse me but can someone explain me why Rammus is in the God tier list? o.O
ReplyDeleteI never see him IG
Ain't everyone is an "Athene" :)
ReplyDeleteBecause he is situationnal just like Fiddlesticks i think he is great...
ReplyDeleteIt's true that most of it is skill, but I feel that as a Pantheon champion, it is easier to kill a Wukong than it is for a Wukong to kill a Pantheon. I'm not saying it can't be done, I've killed Pantheons before, but when it is solo top lane, it is very difficult to trade blows with Pantheon without him coming out with less damage than you.
ReplyDeleteWin rate takes into account all the bronze ranked games, which certainly should not be taken into account in the tier list.
ReplyDeleteCould ya let me know why Shaco is that far down in t2?
ReplyDeleteVolibear Support try it!
I don't see it.
ReplyDeleteI just wanna say I'm glad to see Ahri in Tier 1. She is highly played at the pro level and in solo-q with much success. With that said, I have to say I agree highly with the others who think that Vi should be moved up a bit. I'm a huge fan of Vi's ability to anti-carry essentially. ESPECIALLY in solo-q. This is because in solo-q ( especially lower-elo ) there is one person on the enemy team who is fed to high heavens and the same w/ your team. It's basically a battle between the two, to see who can outcarry, basically. With Vi on your team she can completely eliminate that enemy and allow your fed teammate and the rest of your team to dominate the teamfights. Also, someone had commented that you can interrupt Vi's ult. This is not true as there is no way to stop it. Anyway, other then that great job on the tier list and keep in mind this is just a suggestion/opinion.
ReplyDeleteBtw, I forgot to mention, but have you ever considered adding Riven to your list of mid champions? She is suprisingly strong in that role and is a beast with farm mid game and even late game. If you don't believe me, check out Goldfather8's guide. He mentions how her roaming ability, especially to botlane, is amazing. This allows you to control drag and help feed your botlane or shutdown their's. Also, she has very high mobility across medium distances ( about the length of mid lane outside of tower range .) So ganking her is very difficult. It's like ganking a Lissandra with her e up, except harder.
ReplyDeletehello, first thing i had notice is lulu is put a bit weak on supports tier list, i think she has what is needed as a support :
ReplyDelete- Awesome poke
- Control
- Sustain, well not rly sustain but a good anti-burst mecanics !
She can lane with every carry, and weak one too, for exemple with a sivir its a great counter to a burst lane like leona/graves.
Well maybe i stay a gold player and not that good with my english but i think she is a bit underestimated.
Lulu tier 2 support? I think she deserves tier 1.
ReplyDeleteYes, his ult is very helpful. Also Pantheon is very weak on escaping ganks, if he burns flash, then the second gank will kill him, cause he don't have a useful disengage, So asking ganks against Pantheon can shut him down very hard, and then wukong can easily get out top on pantheon, but on a fair match, as you said his passive is hard to beat down.
ReplyDeleteBut Fiora is OP
ReplyDeleteI'd say amumu needs to be moved down to the tier 1/2. He's just not good anymore.
ReplyDeleteElise god tier top. She's too much of a bully.
Ashe god tier ADC. The arrow is one of the best ults in the game.
Rumble should be tier 1/ god tier because his kit is just so useful.
I'd say Lux, Karthus, Fizz, Zed should be tier 1 mids.
Why are Fiora and Kennen not on the ad carry list anywhere?
ReplyDeleteAsk Dyrus
ReplyDeleteTier 3 max imo...
ReplyDeleteAnyone have an idea what it might take for Karma to be a better AP Mage?
ReplyDeleteI like her remake, visually and kit wise, and I am pretty sure Riot meant for her to be able to mid too, but STILL no one picks her as either mid or support, and it is a little sad to see Riots work, and the anticipation of the fans to make no difference for the champion.
I'd like to know why you have Akali in Tier 3, when her aggressive play style, large amounts of gap closers, invisibility, and teamfight potential (killing their carries rapidly then going invisible) make her a very powerful champ?
ReplyDeleteReading this made me cringe. That doesn't make sense on any level to me. Countering is pretty much the whole game and the reason why tier lists like this exist.
ReplyDeleteNah, Tier 2, build either AP Burst Mage or Lifesteal Pentakill... Very hard to lane against either...
ReplyDeleteDo you ever watch LCS?
ReplyDeleteI doubt so against very polyvalent skillset...plus Sion is very but really VERY predictable...rework is needed!
ReplyDeleteHer winrate in platinum is also around 51%. Believe it or not, she does quite well against certain top champs and can snowball off it.
ReplyDeleteYes
ReplyDeleteThen, you should know by now that what you said is not true.
ReplyDeleteYet she has no hard engage, no disengage, no cc of any kind, and to give her any aoe at all you have to buy ravenous hydra. Also, in teamfights her ult does just as much damage to tanks as the adc and apc.
ReplyDeletedo you have a recommended build i could use for WuKong? cos i just bought him and he is very good but i get about 5 kills and 11 deaths and i cant help it,i am unable to do much damage early game and its not till later i can start getting kills so i don't really like my build at the moment but i love WuKong could you help?
ReplyDeletei think TF's new passive should still keep him in the God Tier. the fact that all he has to do now is farm and not be as much kill hungry should still make him a huge threat. Also i do agree on the pick a card nerf but now if you know TF's card pattern then if your a good quick pick then you can still dominate lane. All the nerf really did is raise his difficulty level.
ReplyDeleteSaying "countering does not matter" is a completely false and small minded statement. The whole game is about finding ways to counter your opponents - it undeniablely gives you and your team advantages. Also when strategies are developed to shut down opposing successful strategies, that's obviously a form countering and its what you see everywhere, especially the LCS.
ReplyDeleteCountering in solo que is extremely important because you want any edge that you can get over your opponent to win your lane. To say "only skill matters" is completely wrong because you simply cannot deny that a teemo would an advantage over garon in lane.
That aside, this isn't LCS, this is a solo que tier list so to say that the two compare is completely wrong. What happens their doesn't relate to this tier list at all. A team of five highly skilled premades don't exactly compare to solo que. I would like to think that normal playstyle and champion selection between pro teams and regular players are just a bit different.
This all being said, you cannot possibly say that countering doesn't matter.
jungle karma is a force to be reckoned with, and should at least be on the board.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=28159-tsanummy-wukong-build-guide there you go man! hes really situation based; the idea is to our range most tops with your Q combo that with your E and bait with your W. If you are low health and the enemy attempts to tower dive you, the best option is to W and run away from the tower so he takes damage and then E, Q and he is dead. Also once you get your R you can W behind your opponent and R then EQ! just get a feel for when to be aggressive and when to be passive always out CS, get towers and gank when your lane is won
ReplyDeleteI agree it just seems at low ELO, (I haven't even reached 30 but lost several passwords lol) that if I do not carry my team loses, very rarely can i play support jungle although i feel it is better on a team comp. If I could, I'd use Sej every game but I hate relying on others so I stick to Jarvan or Yi to hopefully carry my team. But great points you understand the jungle lol
ReplyDeleteKha is only Tier 2? Fine for his Jungling and Top, but his mid, Really should be Tier 1. He can escape ganks (slow etc) and he have a high burst early already. Once he gets lv 3, He can leap to the enemy, then w (slow and dmg) and then e, by then, they would be half health, and also, he can aa to use his passive, boom. More dmg. Yes i UNDERSTAND that there might not be an ap, But the top / mid can do that, secondly, Khazix can make the AP Midlaner feed like hell that they cant snowball and they fail. I hope that you can reply to this.
ReplyDeleteAnyone?
ReplyDeleteAnd what do you think how you gonna counter an opponent? By nowing their damage output your damage output, your armor rating and what does it decreases from the enemys ablities, Your own comboes against specific champions, and a racional mind to get an edge of others, THINKING right, and making good decisions is the one that matters. Saying that for example Renekton gets counter'd by and Elise or a Pantheon is a completly false and stupid argument. Cause if that Renekton can think how could he turn the tides against Elise THATS, what matters, not some cheap ass counter list you got from the internet, Successful strategies are not a part of countering, It's a part of TEAMWORK, which is what the game is about, not countering, saying that in the game countering is what matters the most, is a completly false and close minded argument. You are not going to win against Ryze as Xerath (example here) if you don't know how big is his range, or how much damage can he do to you, You can only win in the lane AND in the match if you know your opponents champions capabilities and try to think how could you COUNTER THAT!!! That is what i am talking about. If a Bronze V player searches for counters at the beginning of the game to pick the champion , when he doesn't even know what that champion does or what is is damage output etc. and then complains on the internet that he is in ELO Hell then he deserves to be there. Teamwork, skill and knowledge these are the ones that matters.
ReplyDeleteI believe that veigar should be moved up as he has infinite potential because of his Q passive and his ultimate. Skilled players can play him as a god tier champion
ReplyDeleteVi is my best champion. People always say she's a top. I tried her top, and I can't seem to get anything but even ratios. I tried her jungle and she's fine there, but I don't see why nobody plays her in mid. If I play mid, Vi is my first choice. I've done amazing with her in mid ever since I tried it around summoner level 15. It stills works marvelously in ranked matches. I'm often getting four kills without a death by fifteen minutes in. She has her Q to pursue for a kill, or escape a gank. She has her W for a huge burst of damage if you land a full combo. She has her E for extra melee damage and poking. She has her R to secure a kill or to chase faster champions. I think she should be in the tier for mid, and the only reason I can think of to explain why she isn't in the mid tiers, is because nobody ever plays her, especially in mid. I've only seen two others try Vi mid. One was from my suggestion during free to play Vi week. The other was Shushei(I heard of him after I started playing Vi mid).
ReplyDeleteHis nerf to his poke/harass hurt him a ton and imo he now is a bit lackluster in the midlane and has a lot of tough match-ups. He's still decent and can sometimes do all the things you mentioned in mid but his tweak has transitioned him to more of an all-in playstyle and that's much better suited to the toplane or jungle.
ReplyDeleteOf course at the end of the day it comes down to skill, but you're just completely discarding facts. Countering gives advantages and you cannot pretend that isn't true.
ReplyDeleteIn a game of soccer, if your net is ten feet wider than mine you might argue that is unfair because I have a smaller net, an advantage.
This can relate to the situation here. If I pick teemo and you pick garon, I undeniablely have an ADVANTAGE - does this mean I automatically will win my lane? No, of course you could definitely be much more skilled than me and win, but I still had an advantage over you. Like in our soccer game, just because my net is smaller and I have an advantage, doesn't mean I will win. It comes down to the greater skill, but I still had an advantage, which is all I'm trying to prove to you often exists, by COUNTERING, in our games of league of legends.
Hi Bardia, Veigar certainly has infinite potential, but the major problem with him is that his abilities center around him landing that all-important stun. The buffs to his stun border certainly helped, and players like Njacky definitely play him at a God Tier level. However, for the rest of us common folk, he's not quite reliable enough to count on during a teamfight.
ReplyDeleteHer kit is best suited for the jungle imo but she can still find success in lane. I feel that in mid she could do fine and even excel in certain match-ups but more often than not she'd have a tough time against a lot of ap mages like Lux who could easily take advantage of her all-in, close quarters playstyle.
ReplyDeleteI find that toplane she's pretty lackluster after her nerfs and shes not very good against most common toplane bruisers, which is why I think you haven't found much success there. Lately you may have found a lot of success mid because of her ability to greatly punish squishy champs who don't really know what they're doing. Your luck might start to run out and good people will start recognizing her limits and will set up a devastating counterpick.
Imo her playstyle is complemented more in another position, but of course its just a game and by all means follow your preference :)
Lux is one of the easiest to beat. The only specific champion I've had trouble laning against in mid is Talon, and he's somewhat rare to see. Lux is just skill shots and they're easy to predict and dodge. I win the poke wars, and when they overextend even by a small amount I can wreck them. The only time I don't get kills is when they turret hug, but then nobody gets any kills.
ReplyDeleteYou are taking what I said way too specifically. I'm not saying Lux beats Vi no questions asked. I could argue but I'm just going to say if you can beat lux then that's great. I'm just saying imo Vi isn't viable mid and even though I threw some examples at you so try to focus more on the entire concept.
ReplyDeleteI like Quinn jungle as well, but it's a bit situational.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, she doesn't contribute a whole lot of tankiness to a team, even when built as a bruiser. That's a problem because most teams end up relying on their jungler for tankiness. This can be compensated for with certain team compositions, but we're talking about solo queue here.
She's a damage-oriented jungler as well, who tends to steal kills during ganks. Her CC is limited, and at best situational. While this is alright to an extent, because Quinn is traditionally an ADC and has the potential to win games, she still isn't going to be terrifying unless she absolutely steamrolls the enemy team, since junglers tend not to have a massive gold influx due to the nature of the jungle relative to lanes. Other damage-oriented junglers such as Yi are scarier without needing to be quite as fed.
She's got a decent skillcap as well, which hurts her consistency. Her Q isn't hard to land, but it complicates her playstyle a bit, and using her E and especially her ult properly takes a bit of practice. While this isn't a huge issue, as there are many high-skillcap champs which reside in the higher tiers, it does help to knock her down a bit on the tier list.
All in all, it's not terrible, and it's definitely possible to do well with it. I've had success in my experiences with Quinn jungle. That said, it's not the ideal way to jungle, and is only going to outshine someone like Jarvan IV in rather specific circumstances. I'd put her, as a jungler, at the bottom of Tier 3. Definitely viable, but more situational than many other junglers, and is reliant on doing well.
Okay, see it as this, If you pick teemo and i garen, then you have advantage. What do i do? Ask my jungler to come camp top and we can annihilate you. From there on you are out of the game, and your advantage is over. Thats why teamwork and knowledge is more important then just countering.
ReplyDeleteI agree he have nerfs, But the point is, His Q DEALS TONS of dmg. He can combo the ppl EARLY GAME ( E + W + Q + Passive AA) two times and they're dead. After that, He will have an easy lane and then the enemy mid (usually ap) will be screwed.
ReplyDeleteLissandra should be moves up in the tier list imo. Her kit is simply amazing. Ridiculous CC,(stun, perma slow, root). Amazing poke, great farming, great pusher, insane mobility (skipping multiple walls), even better ganks.
ReplyDeleteI've recently bought her and I lost about 2 games out of 14 matches (non with real negative ratios, most of em carried). Her ult is usually a guaranteed kill at level 6 with ignite up. Her ult has a fair amount of damage and don't forget her 5 seconds of invulnerability with hourglass.
Awesome buy, definitely maining this upcoming mid god.
You have Twitch below Draven... I'm DONE!
ReplyDeleteI started watching some singed play and yea you're right he like never dies.
ReplyDeletewhy is tryn tier 1? i'm only in silver (rising in silver 1), so i don't really have the best understanding of the game, and i never see him picked. to be honest he seems kinda weak wihen i play against him as singed or irelia :o
ReplyDeletealso, why is syndra in tier 4 and not at least tier 3? is her stun/ burst too unreliable?
Because Ashe as no impact such has Singed(Arrow is not something out of the league...)
ReplyDeleteRemember SSJ is plat so beyond Plat this tier list might be "inacurate".
There are many factors in game which you have to see...if your vision is black/white then go every game on website like lolcounter.com and watch replay of other player...
He is really hard to play early on (about his farming phase) which against very burty champs with some CC he might lose the hand on a short amount of time...when you get closer to lvl6 and above you should be just careful to don't go over confident going 1v5 mundo style is fun but could cost you the game...that is usualy where all the game lost goes with him from players loosing early or not catching the teamfight in the good shape (like fucking up the adcarry out of the team fight and killing him :))
ReplyDeleteKassadin:
ReplyDeleteHis Silence makes him the most feared mid laner (when you go AP vs AP ofc)
Plus his Slow which need skill activation yours ally or enemie is really sick and his ultimate is dedicated to SoloQ for chasing and escaping...
Kassadin:
ReplyDeleteHis Silence makes him the most feared mid laner (when you go AP vs AP ofc)
Plus his Slow which need skill activation yours ally or enemie is really sick and his ultimate is dedicated to SoloQ for chasing and escaping...
Amumu:
There everyone cannot agree with SSJ thought (even me) but once Amumu was beast he still is but in my opinion when a champion like this which was like one of the best jungler sort of FOTM (or maybe even year :p) but he can still be quiet a god material the best is to fit it with some AoE Damage to make his ultimate even more critical! ;)
Fiddlesticks:
His damage output and CC (Silence/Fear) are massive!!!
the only problem is...his substain which are one of the worst imo (as proof if you aint rushing Zhonya or you forget to activate it...you gonna have a bad time :) )
Rammus:
The is the Kassadin of the jungle but to some enemy setup oriented too much ap like 4 or 5 AD in the enemy team and rammus is one of the best pick you can make!
His ganks are insane and often so underestimated you need to repeat 10x to your mates to care at t he way they extend! Mobility boots + Powerball its like a Ferrari Enzo coming right in your butt!
Sejuani:
To be sincere im ain't an expert on this champion at all...
But since her light rework she is so CC viable (Slow AoE + Ult Stun AoE) + Gap closer! so she might be god material maybe a Sejuani player can assist me on the perfect resume of "Why God?" :)
Singed:
I talked about it in someone else topic which can't understand how a Singed is godlike but when you see his tankiness and his poison AoE damage...you will shit bricks :)
He suffered from a tweak which took the CC reduction in his ultimate but his poison kinda trigger 3 or 4 times now...i don't remember exactly it's like 2-3 patch notes ago which you can find the explanation!
Wukong:
He is at the limit to not be a bruiser but his bursty damage and mostly his AoE Knockup turn him into the kinda of pain in the ass during the mid/late game teamfight!
(if not locked early game :))
Janna:
The most defensive support which offers tons of CC like her tornado & ultimate which are so good! and the wind shield giving +50AD you cannot hate her...(she is the support with the highest win rate atm!)
Sona:
Kinda opposite side from Janna since you got a legit small burst with her! she might be a bit overestimated but the ultimate is overall awesome (force a /d to every enemy ahead from you :))
If it was my opinion i rather see Nami at her place :)
Kassadin:
ReplyDeleteHis Silence makes him the most feared mid laner (when you go AP vs AP ofc)
Plus his Slow which need skill activation yours ally or enemy is really sick and his ultimate is dedicated to SoloQ for chasing and escaping...
Amumu:
There everyone cannot agree with SSJ thought (even me) but once Amumu was beast he still is but in my opinion when a champion like this which was like one of the best jungler sort of FOTM (or maybe even year :p) but he can still be quiet a god material the best is to fit it with some AoE Damage to make his ultimate even more critical! ;)
Fiddlesticks:
His damage output and CC (Silence/Fear) are massive!!!
the only problem is...his sustain which are one of the worst imo (as proof if you ain't rushing Zhonya or you forget to activate it...you gonna have a bad time :) )
Rammus:
The is the Kassadin of the jungle but to some enemy setup oriented too much ap like 4 or 5 AD in the enemy team and rammus is one of the best pick you can make!
His ganks are insane and often so underestimated you need to repeat 10x to your mates to care at t he way they extend! Mobility boots + Powerball its like a Ferrari Enzo coming right in your butt!
Sejuani:
ReplyDeleteTo be sincere i ain't an expert on this champion at all...
But since her light rework she is so CC viable (Slow AoE + Ult Stun AoE) + Gap closer! so she might be god material maybe a Sejuani player can assist me on the perfect resume of "Why God?" :)
Singed:
I talked about it in someone else topic which can't understand how a Singed is godlike but when you see his tankiness and his poison AoE damage...you will shit bricks :)
He suffered from a tweak which took the CC reduction in his ultimate but his poison kinda trigger 3 or 4 times now...i don't remember exactly it's like 2-3 patch notes ago which you can find the explanation!
Wukong:
He is at the limit to not be a bruiser but his bursty damage and mostly his AoE Knockup turn him into the kinda of pain in the ass during the mid/late game teamfight!
(if not locked early game :))
Sejuani:
ReplyDeleteTo be sincere... i ain't an expert on this champion at all...
But since her light rework she is so CC viable (Slow AoE + Ult Stun AoE) + Gap closer! so she might be god material maybe a Sejuani player can assist me on the perfect resume of "Why God?" :)
Singed:
I talked about it in someone else topic which can't understand how a Singed is godlike but when you see his tankiness and his poison AoE damage...you will sh*t bricks :)
He suffered from a tweak which took the CC reduction in his ultimate but his poison kinda trigger 3 or 4 times now...i don't remember exactly it's like 2-3 patch notes ago which you can find the explanation!
Wukong:
He is at the limit to not be a bruiser but his bursty damage and mostly his AoE Knockup turn him into the kinda of pain in the ass during the mid/late game teamfight!
(if not locked early game :))
Sejuani:
ReplyDeleteTo be sincere... i ain't an expert on this champion at all...
But since her light rework she is so CC viable (Slow AoE + Ult Stun AoE) + Gap closer! so she might be god material maybe a Sejuani player can assist me on the perfect resume of "Why God?" :)
Singed:
ReplyDeleteI talked about it in someone else topic which can't understand how a Singed is godlike but when you see his tankiness and his poison AoE damage...you will sh*t bricks :)
He suffered from a tweak which took the CC reduction in his ultimate but his poison kinda trigger 3 or 4 times now...i don't remember exactly it's like 2-3 patch notes ago which you can find the explanation!
Wukong:
ReplyDeleteHe is at the limit to not be a bruiser but his bursty damage and mostly his AoE Knockup turn him into the kinda of pain in the ass during the mid/late game teamfight!
(if not locked early game :))
Wukong:
ReplyDeleteHe is at the limit to not be a bruiser but his bursty damage and mostly his AoE Knockup turn him into a pain during the mid/late game teamfight!
(if not locked early game :))
Janna:
ReplyDeleteThe most defensive support which offers tons of CC like her tornado & ultimate which are so good! and the wind shield giving +50AD you cannot hate her...(she is the support with the highest win rate atm!)
Sona:
ReplyDeleteKinda opposite side from Janna since you got a legit small burst with her! she might be a bit overestimated but the ultimate is overall awesome (force a /d to every enemy ahead from you :))
If it was my opinion i rather see Nami at her place :)
P.S: sry for all the answer in singular but dunno what the issue with Disq with too long answers...
I hope it kinda help you.
His weakness stay only into the early lane phase against champion which are ranged to substain and not get flinged away.
ReplyDeleteWhen you are facing such...try not play rambo!
Just like the late game Singed players (me included) are making the typical mistake of being over confident and go 1v5 just because they are "Singed" but its stupid to crack the glass alone and risk to really break it and leave your team in a 4v5...
All you just said make perfect sense :)
ReplyDeleteThe worst i have seen yet is fiddle and sejuani in the same team...my facepalm was eternal!
Hi mrspade, I've white listed you so disqus shouldn't filter the long answers anymore. Thanks for being so active!
ReplyDeleteYou are welcome SSJ :) and thx for the white listed!
ReplyDeletei just hope to help people the most i can...even if i follow your opinion there will always be some exception. :D
I also get other people mind which are also legit! Like Foxdrop (Jungle DiamondI EUW) and Fourpaws (SoloTop PlatV) who makes really legit video for people of their kind! unfortunately for me i didn't find the same for mid laners so i build up my own knowledge :)
P.S: Im climbing to Plat Bro :) Halfway to hit it! 7 Ranked victory in row :)
Remember before posting that the tier is made for the average players and mostly between Bronze to Platinum!
ReplyDeleteeven if i agree with you since i got a mate which plays a veigar from another galaxy!
Jarvan the best jungled to carry a game with? I think so
ReplyDeleteYi should be in the god tier. Atleast for bronze silver gold. If he gets picked the game is played.
ReplyDeleteAtleast in his current state.
Where did they go wrong with Olaf :/ I want him to be good :<
ReplyDeleteYou called them heroes....
ReplyDelete