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Dec 31, 2011

Graves Still Too Strong Post-nerfs

As if you couldn't tell from my massive pea shooter...

AFTER GRAVES WAS NERFED to the point where he couldn't take 5 enemy heroes to 1/3 health using nothing but his spells, Riot assumed he was balanced. However, players know better. Graves isn't the jaw-dropping champion that he was before, but his AD carrying power is still through the roof. Now that his ridiculous ultimate been nerfed slightly, the rest of his kit is really shining through.

Some quotes from top players are as follows from their streams:
"Graves is all around the best AD right now. He's got a good laning phase, good single target and AoE damage for team fights." - Chaox (TSM)
Question: "Chaox, who are the top 3 ad carries and why?"
Chaox: "1. Graves 2. Graves 3. Graves"
Question: "Where is Vayne?"
Chaox: " Under Graves"
"I always knew Graves Soraka was really gay...but now I REALLY know. It's that infinite mana on Graves." - Doublelift (CLG) 
"We shouldn't have let them get Graves both games against us...that was probably a really retarded move" - Saintvicious (CLG)
"Everyone knows Graves is just...stupid." - TheOddOne (TSM)
Graves gains increasing armor and magic resistance the longer he remains in combat. Bonus of 1 at lv 1, 2 at lv 6, 3 at lv 11. This can stack up 10 times.

Since a good Graves player will constantly be attacking, this passive will give a flat 10 armor for most of the time at level 1. Masteries give 6 of each, and a full page of flat armor yellows and flat mag resist blues gives you +13 mag resist. Graves basically gets an extra half a rune page of defensive stats at level 1, and then it scales.

Graves fires three bullets in a cone, dealing physical damage to all enemies in their path. Enemies at close range can be hit by multiple projectiles, but each bullet beyond the first will deal only 25% damage.
Damage: 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 (+0.8 per bonus attack damage)
Max Damage: 90 / 157.5 / 225 / 292.5 / 360 (+1.2 per bonus attack damage)
Mana Cost: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 mana

This can be compared directly to Caitlyn's AOE:

Caitlyn revs up her rifle for 1 second to unleash a penetrating shot which deals 20 / 65 / 110 / 155 / 200 (+130% Attack Damage) physical damage (deals 10% less damage to subsequent targets, with a maximum loss of 50%).
Mana Cost: 50/60/70/80/90

Assuming that we start with around +28 damage with Doran's Blade, flat AD runes, and the +3 ad mastery, Graves will start with 79 damage while Caitlyn starts with 75. Caitlyn will deal a maximum of 117.5 damage whereas Graves will deal a minimum of 82.4 and a maximum of 123.6
  • Graves also throws his AOE out faster than Caitlyn, which makes it harder to dodge.
Graves fires a smoke canister dealing 60/110/160/210/260 (+0.6) magic damage on impact and creating a smoke cloud at the location that lasts 5 seconds. Enemies inside the cloud have their sight radius reduced and are slowed by 15/20/25/30/35% while they remain in the cloud.
  • This move's basis is op. It obstructs sight and is an absolute CC that will take you at least a second or two to get out of.
  • This move's duration is op. 5 seconds.
  • This move's size is OP. AOE that can easily cover 2 or 3 heroes.
  • This move makes lower end PC users LAG in FPS
As for his dashing steroid and his ultimate, they're just simply highly useful spells that just further aid his quest in staying alive and decimating his enemies.

To further illustrate the point, here's a video played by ecKohh at 1630 ELO killing 4 people with nothing but a pair of level 1 boots. Yes I realize the tower had a part in killing the enemy, but if you count, the tower hits the enemy 3 times and hits graves twice.

Agree? Disagree? Got better videos? Post below, your opinions matter to me! Thanks for reading~

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  1. no idea how u can say in the description that its graves doing all the work.
    They pushed into an oncoming wave and took damage
    They focused the soraka instead of the graves
    They also had very bad positioning allowing them to be bunched up like that infront of a graves is very bad play are you sure this is 1600+ and not 900+? very poor play from purple.

  2. I didn't say it was Graves doing all the work, yes I'm sure this is 1600, and he's the only AD hero that doesn't lose a single point of single target damage when there are more people bunched up.

    Everyone else actually loses damage when there are more targets. For example: Caitlyn's Q loses damage, Ezreal gets blocked, and Sivir's W loses damage.

    Meanwhile, the only other two that don't lose single target damage with their AOEs, Corki/Tristana, have to get in close to melee range to throw their AOEs, which is extremely risky 1v3.

  3. No one argues Graves isn't very strong,he is mostly because how tanky he is for an AD carry,but he gets countered pretty hard even in the NA scene(see the recently Dignitas games on which almost all ADs Qtpie played won because he had as support something so strong like Leona).But also in Eu where even in soloQ people prefer to ban Vayne over Graves and people fear him only on top AD players which would probably stomp anyway.

  4. I think the only reason people pick Vayne over Graves is that since Vayne has a stun in lane, she can get early game kills easier than Graves.

    Meanwhile, she also has an invis, which in most 5v5 ranked should be useless since the support always has an oracle. In solo queue on the other hand, she always gets to take full advantage of this invis.

  5. Damage: 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 (+0.8 per bonus attack damage)
    bonus AD not Total AD, ur math with graves Q is wrong

  6. You're absolutely right, I thought those numbers were a little too ridiculous! Not sure how I failed to catch that. Should be correct now :)


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