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Sep 12, 2014

Riot Pwyff Chats About 4.17 Forecast



Riot Pwyff's released a tasty updated forecast on what's in store in Patch 4.17, and since 4.16 was rather bland I figured you'd all be interested!

Interestingly enough, note that Pwyff indicates that they traditionally only target HIGHLY BANNED CHAMPIONS and typically ignore champions with low-counterplay with low visibility (aka the actual "strong" champions in my book). Even Riot's balance team caters more to the whims of players (which is smart from a company standpoint).

Buffs: Leblanc
Nerfs: Akali, Talon, Yasuo, Fiora, Nidalee, Tristana, Kha'Zix
Tweaks: Rammus, Viktor, Soraka

[9/11/2014] Live Gameplay Forecast!

Riot Pwyff:

Spinning these Patch Forecasts back up as more changes come hurtling to the PBE. In the future we'll be experimenting with the forecast to see what's the best way to communicate pre-PBE changes, but for now we've got some neat things on the way that we wanted to talk about.

The overarching narrative for this patch is to reduce stagnation in the live environment by targeting highly banned champions and (finally) looking at those champs who make for a low-counterplay game (looking at you Talon). Speaking to the latter (low counter play dudes), it's worth mentioning they've always had low counterplay, but that we've traditionally let them be due to their low visibility and (occasionally) lack of current-meta strengths. More below!

SSJSuntastic: This paragraph above says so much...


There's also the GLORIOUS EVOLUTION of Viktor with his gameplay update (PBE friends, check that that feedback thread:

  • AP on each upgrade of the Hex Core reduced to 20 from 25 (Perfect is now 168 AP from 183)
  • Base damage on Q empowered attack changed to 20~210 from 15~250
  • Augment E explosions start faster (0.25 seconds faster to be precise)
  • BUGFIX: Q empowered attack properly procs Lich Bane
  • BUGFIX: Q empowered attack no longer works on structures
  • BUGFIX: Put back missing Siphon Power shield particles on Creator Viktor skin
  • BUGFIX: Creator Viktor's Death Ray makes a distinct sound again
  • BUGFIX: Fixed R becoming too chaotic 


The still-glorious-but-not-named-glorious evolution of Soraka with a larger gameplay update of her own (PBE friends, once again: ).

More Changes

There are a few oppressive champions out there who have been climbing the ladders in terms of ban rates, play rates, and win rates, and we've finally decided to get into the weeds to make them a bit healthier to play against. Between 4.17 and 4.18 you can expect some small changes to champs like Akali, Talon, Yasuo, and Fiora (oh man Fiora), with most focused on reducing some in their low-counterplay abilities (maybe not eliminating, but reducing at the very least).

Speaking of strong dudes, there's a few more on our radar that we wanted to address specifically:
Nidalee - Cat lady's doing pretty well in all levels of play, specifically when she's thrown into top lane as a low counterplay bruiser-bully. We're looking for ways to reduce some of Nidalee's high AD / auto-attack focused strengths while maybe giving some love back to her AP bruiser / AP burst builds.

Tristana - Don't really need to say much beyond this, but Trist's pretty good right now. Specifically her early / mid-game tradeoffs just aren't being made when she's got such a monster lategame potential. We're looking for ways to fix this, specifically by adding windows to actually beat her up throughout the game.

Kha'Zix: As an opportunistic assassin, Kha'Zix's gone back to his missile-bugging days of prioritizing W to poke away at people. Given W's got tons of utility already piled on top of it (slow, vision, aoe), we're a little concerned that as missile-bug picks up, Kha'Zix will go back to losing a lot of his counterplay, especially since he can poke for high damage on grouped up individuals. We'll be keeping a close eye on Kha'Zix as our changes develop, but if he needs help assassinating people, we're prepared to give him some love in those areas!

Rammus - Not really a nerf or a huge buff, but just in case anyone mining PBE files gets confused, we're making it so that Powerball and Defensive Ball Curl can now overlap by 1 second, so if you use one to cancel the other you get 1 second to consider your mistake before it actually happens.

LeBlanc - LeBlanc changes! Since we removed the silence from her sigil of... malice, LeBlanc hasn't been in the best of places. We're looking for ways to give LB a bit more power in a healthy way, so we're talking more deception and cleverness rather than more damage.

And that's it for this forecast!


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  1. Lionel AlmaidaSeptember 12, 2014

    This huge amount of shit was posted in NA forums? I'm thinkin' in take a peek there, and blame that motherfucker just a bit: "The overarching narrative for this patch is to reduce stagnation in the live environment by targeting highly banned champions" ... but there's no nerf on Yasuo or Fizz in the last 5-6 patches! ¬¬

  2. SSJSuntasticSeptember 12, 2014

    The link is marked "Source" at the bottom, they are targeting Yasuo sometime in the 4.17 or 4.18 patch (first paragraph under more changes), but no plans on Fizz just yet.

  3. ownagemobileSeptember 12, 2014

    Fizz is in an alright place, he is one of the highest risk/ reward champions in league. His laning is very poor to the point he can get shut down easily by people, but if he gets ahead he snowballs as hard as any champ in league.

    Yasuo tho... Just the way he is designed, he's got such an overloaded kit that it's hard to balance him unless you gut him... No mana costs, huge mobility, huge damage with 2 items aoe ult with 50% armor shred, wall that blocks all ranged anything, passive shield that scales per level and let's him take minimal damage from harass

    He is so toxic it makes me angry... He's super fun to play as, but can be oppressive to play against, especially as an adc main myself

  4. Another nerf to Kha... they are really testig his "survive and adapt" thing...

  5. SquirrelNutkinsSeptember 12, 2014

    What I read from this: Amumu will remain OP forever.

  6. Yasuo has been consistently nerfed the last 3 major patches. His total nerfs have been ult range, shield hitpoints, e stacking, q cooldown was heightened some. He has been getting nerf attention. They need to fix his wind wall duration. I love him and main him but even I agree hes a bit too strong.

  7. Well, RIP viktor.

    Sleep well sweet prince. Gotta love how riot butchers one of the most unique champions that they had, just because the average bronze couldn't play him.

  8. Honestly, there's nothing that can be done to Yasuo now. Nerf him a little, and he will fall off the viability cliff. He's teetering at it right now, the only things they haven't nerfed are the ones that will destroy the champion if they go through.

  9. I''ll miss you talon, I remember when i started making you my main, when nobody knew you were flat OP
    R.I.P Talon

  10. Why are every single one of my comments being marked as spam?

  11. I'm confused how is he butchered?
    Isn't having the ability to get all his skills upgraded with the hex core better and other then his q and the hex core they haven't changed much.

  12. Fizz is such an unsafe champion that any nerfs would ruin him. NO poke in lane, and if he wants to do damage he was to all-in. If you shut fizz down early, he will be useless, but otherwise GG.

  13. TonyTheLiger1412September 13, 2014

    They said they're perfectly willing to make him a better assassin. He's just too good at group fights.

  14. TonyTheLiger1412September 13, 2014

    It's bonus armor shred, so it doesn't really increase damage against carries.

  15. KingoftheSocksSeptember 13, 2014

    HOw I feel on all of this
    Leblanc: No matter how much I dislike her, if a champ can go 12/3 within 20 mins and have small impact then something needs to be done to address that.
    Akali: She's a champion that just cycles around the wheel of popular champs, and with squishier comps in the spotlight she shines as well as any other assassin, even without nerfs she'll be gone pretty quickly and her pre 6 weakness is high enough to warrent her post 6 power spike

    Talon: This has probably been a long time coming, Talon has been a no counterplay champ for a while and the rate he pushes waves and kills towers is scary, I'd aim for a lower damage increase on his q and reduced damage to minions on his w, otherwise a silence duration lowering is needed.

    Yasuo: I don't mind him particularly, even though he's the most banned at the moment there's plenty of counterplay to him, but from what the community is saying an adjustment on his kit seems needed, I won't argue if it happens but there are probably better priorities to be looking at.

    Fiora: I like Fiora but her kit is far too dominating in almost all scenarios, not only can she do well against all of her counters but despite a lack of cc does many things much better than champion who focusses on one (split push, teamfights, tower killing etc). From what I've read Riot want to rework her and this seems like the best option as purely cutting her numbers guts the only thing she brings (even if it is overwhelmingly brilliant)

    Nidalee: This is obvious, her gap closing and burst need to be lowered, I don't mind if she's AD or AP but so far Riot have just gone too far either way with her, but like fiora just cutting numbers isn't enough, they'll need to think around her spears and the hunted passive, as well as the cd on the leap

    Tristana: I never understood why they continually nerfed Kog Maw and not Tristana, either way Tristana has been the most popular champ for a while now and unlike the last most popular champ (lee) actually holds a respectable win rate. I'd like to see her jump range nerfed as well as higher mana costs on her e, along with the removal of the grievious wounds on e and replace it with simple DoT.

    Kha Zix: There's no keeping this one down is there, I'd just aim with a range reduction on his w as well as stopping that on hit effects proc, no more aoe black cleaver procs please rito

    Rammus: Will help newer players and main of him will like the idea but its nothing huge and helps with learning how his forms work.

    Overall I like the choice of champions on the changelist, but as we've yet to see what will happen we can only hope and wait that we get what we want rather than something too little or too large

  16. Personally nerfs to Akali and Yasuo are very unjustified, Akali is barely strong and if you survive lane against her you win, whereas the only time a Yasuo is barely a threat is if it's a Yasuo only player, people ban yasuo because they don't want to play WITH yasuo's on their team.

  17. I totally agree with you rip Talon it was nice knowing you. But seriusly. Talon is already borderline viable becouse of his shitty earlygame (lvl1-6). And there absolutely is counterplay. Put him begind early so he cant oneshot stuff and he is completely useless. Plus the biggest cheat in this game: wards. Ward up and he will have a much harder time picking you off.

  18. Can you keep the old tier lists on the website? I think it would cool to go back and see what champs were really good in 'x' patch.

  19. SSJSuntasticSeptember 13, 2014

    I'd like to, but when I used to do that a lot of people would comment on outdated placements. This way keeps us all on the same page :)

  20. MasterOfMetalSeptember 13, 2014

    so many nerfs..... time for morde to be a god :)

  21. MasterOfMetalSeptember 13, 2014

    I am joking obviously, so many other champs are close to the throne my poor morde will never ascend :(

  22. he pushes all day everyday. that's all I see him do anyway.

  23. I agree. orianna absolutely ruins fizz's day (at least in all of my matchups)

  24. I believe Yasuo doesnt deserve to get nerfed, if they continue to nerf him like that soon urgot will be better than him

  25. Will Nidalee lose her viability after this patch? I heard it would be an Olaf Nerf to her :(. what do you guys think?

  26. MasterOfMetalSeptember 15, 2014

    objectives > kills

  27. Anon E MooseSeptember 15, 2014

    Okay Nidalee, time to be an AP champion again! Don't worry, a few months down the line they'll change their minds again and you can be AD. Just like always.

  28. riot is ****, they are idiots only know how to debuff, if they keep doing something like this, no body will be playing this **** game anymore

  29. Anonymus TalonSeptember 20, 2014

    Hmm, too many ppl like one champ, nerf it, heuheuehue

  30. Strongsword1066September 20, 2014

    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. "Change is good."

  31. Looks like Amumu and Katarina will remain untouched. ...sigh

  32. Lee SeunghwanSeptember 21, 2014



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