Jul 30, 2014

Patch 4.13 Analysis

91 comments

Introduction

Looks like Riot's really got my work cut out for me as this patch introduces a plethora of changes! Although some people have noted that this patch's tier list will probably take me a bit longer than usual, I'll definitely try and get it out in a reasonable time.

In the meantime, here are my initial thoughts on the changes:
Tl;dr: Lee sin spanked, Vayne and Lissandra got a huge buff, Riot still trying to balance Braum, and Sona is now some sort of Melee ranged support. Most champions largely unchanged despite the massive list.

Changes

Nerfs: Elise, Evelynn, Gragas, Lee Sin, Lulu, Yasuo, Ziggs, Kog'maw, Lucian, Tristana, Braum, Nami, Thresh
Buffs: Hecarim, Jax, Olaf, Kayle, Leblanc, Lissandra, Lux, Vel'koz, Graves, Sivir, Varus, Vayne, Janna
Tweaks: Shyvana, Sona

Full Patch Notes

Nerfs

Elise [Relatively Unchanged]: Although a simple missile width nerf can work wonders (see Nidalee) and the Rappel change does diminish her escape and engage slightly, I think she'll largely remain unchanged. Those who are good at her will still be good at her, and the other 90% of people will largely continue experiencing her bottom 10 win rate in solo queue. She does have potential though.

Evelynn [Likely dropping to Tier 2]: Tier 2 isn't bad guys...the only reason I don't put her in Tier 3 is because of her potential early game snowball. Otherwise just between you and me, she's already been high Tier 2 material all along.

Gragas [Largely unchanged from Tier 1]: Although his waveclear has been nerfed, he did get a slight buff on his tanky build late game, which I think will translate into an equivalent exchange in the grand scheme of things.

Lee Sin [Likely moving down to Tier 2]: For both top and jungle, I think he'll be fairly balanced now. Jungle should be hit softer than top and may still remain Tier 1.

Lulu [Dropping a bit in Tier 1]: Oh Lulu, so close to God Tier...SO CLOSE

Yasuo [Dropping in Tier 1]: I don't think the nerfs will be enough to place him in Tier 2, but as he's getting hit on both offensive and defensive fronts, we can't be entirely sure.

Ziggs [May move to Tier 1]: I think that nerfing ziggs may have just opened the door to a lot of other viable mids including assassins like Akali.

Kog'Maw [Likely staying in God Tier]: While this hurts his late game significantly, it basically doesn't affect his early and mid game as few people begin leveling spittle until late anyway.

Lucian [May move to Tier 1]: Need to see how this pans out, but it's significant.

Tristana [Likely to stay God Tier]: Nerfed early and her snowball potential is reduced, but she still has a monster late game and safe laning phase.

Braum [Likely dropping, possibly to Tier 1]: Maybe 3rd time's the charm? His rate of movement will largely be impacted by his win rate.

Nami [Likely staying the same]: Nami's actually been rising in strength lately, but this will probably keep her in line. Don't be surprised if she even moves up a bit.

Thresh [Likely staying the same]: Still a very skill reliant champion, his playstyle will remain largely the same. 

Buffs

Hecarim [Possibly moving back up to Tier 2]: Bit of a damage increase, not sure if it'll be enough. Other junglers getting nerfed will assist him in his climb.

Jax [Unchanged]: Quality of life buff, but he didn't seem that hard to last hit with to begin with.

Olaf [Moving up]: Anything that gives this guy lane dominance will definitely improve his overall gameplay, and this is one contender you'll want to keep an eye out for if Riot's got him on his buffdar.

Kayle [Moving up a little in Tier 2]: 

Leblanc [Largely unchanged]: Bottom of the barrel win rate right now, but she still has the potential to snowball. I'd prefer if she remained unplayed.

Lissandra [Likly moving mid/top to Tier 1, support may move to 3]: HUGE buffs on Lissandra, I think she'll be a hotly contested pick this patch.

Lux [Rising a bit in Tier 1]: I don't think her late game will be as overwhelming as some think, as a lot of other glass cannons will also be very strong at that point. If her 100 to 0 is enough to take out a substantially higher number of people with her passive without being fed during mid game however, that could change.

Vel'koz [May move to Tier 1]: That's a pretty substantial buff, and I think it'll bring Vel'koz up quite a ways through his poke and combo ability.

Graves [May move up a bit]: His level 6 combo potential just got very high, and should be enough to kill in more situations than before. His late game also received a bit of a buff, and should bring him closer to other champions provided this Vayne buff hasn't been overdone.

Sivir [May move up a bit]: Pretty big buff to her late game team buff, we'll see how this pans out. If champions like Akali start coming back into the scene then her chasing power may prove to be more valuable than it seems right now.

Varus [Largely unchanged]: Although Varus is largely balanced right now, the change seems to just be a reminder that this champion exists.

Vayne [Huge buff, we'll see where she lands]: Vayne just got a massive buff and will likely come back into the scene as a pro pick of choice. However, we'll have to see if this also translates to be enough for her to be overpowered again for the rest of the population. My thoughts point to yes with nerfs on a lot of supports and junglers this patch, but be sure Riot will have their eye on this one.

Janna [Unchanged]: The changes this time around seem too small to have much of an effect, if any, on her power level.

Tweaks

Shyvana [Largely unchanged]: She's a bit more bursty now in teamfights, which is probably more of a buff.

Sona [Likely moving down to Tier 2]: Without seeing her live, it seems like her overall power level has been decreased. She's no longer a simple champion to play and now has a more complicated set of rules to follow when it comes to positioning and item selection.

Item/Summoner Spell Changes

Frostfang was nerfed slightly, which puts a damper on champions like Morgana. I don't think it's substantial, but it does delay her sightstone slightly.

Heal was nerfed, but I think it's still a better alternative to Barrier. Exhaust was tweaked, and now it's stronger early game and weaker late game. Be sure to use it BEFORE your AD carry uses his burst to maximize the arpen.

What are your thoughts on the patch? Agree/disagree? Comment below!




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91 comments:

  1. FINALLY THE BLIND MONK IS DOWN. RIOT HAD LEESINED TO MY PLEAS >:D

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  2. SSJSuntasticJuly 30, 2014

    I see what you did there

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  3. FuzzyliteninJuly 31, 2014

    Lee Sin didn't

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  4. Nathan133July 31, 2014

    Lissandra is one of my favorite champs. It's about time she got some buffs, although her W nerf does not make her as bursty. Hoping that the additional CC makes up for that.

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  5. I guess Hecarim is not viable since he can't tank the same damage that before. Even with this buff, will be only map Pressure

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  6. I definitely think we'll see a rise (or a ryze if you will) in AP sona mids. keep your eye out, summoners.

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  7. Liss's Q is almost as spammable as eve's q now. But they nerfed her W making her dfg 100-0 combo weaker. :/ Luckily Meddler said that this wasnt the last time we see buffs on lissandra. He's working on a way to tweak liss's passive by giving it some sort of shield that gets stronger the more times liss cc an enemy(s). This will definitely help her survive in teamfights with her short range.

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  8. I hope this is true hahahaha

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  9. .Two major issues with the changes and the meta:

    -Junglers: Will Elise be a permaban now at higher elos as the alpha early-game jungler?

    No more Lee Sin or Evelynn? I think that maybe Jarvan, Vi, Nunu will get more popular, don't quote me on this.

    -This point is very subjective, but I think Galio may get some popularity soon, with the AP top/ AP mid combos you see nowadays. Yes, Galio is countered by Braum's passive, but his winrate recently is huge due to the increase of AP heavy teams. So, as long as Braum is banned out or picked by the same team, I believe Galio "counters" the current meta

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  10. Nomad's Medallion is now op

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  11. Cyrus GivianpourJuly 31, 2014

    Alot of people do not see the Lissandra changes as buffs. It was hard enough to 100-0 someone with DFG now its pretty much impossible.

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  12. I heard what you did there

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  13. BegclawmrfJuly 31, 2014

    Unfortunately Sona is now basically release Braum. Tons of safety, and the ability to 1v1 the enemy adc (even with Lucidity boots, Sightstone, and eventually a Frozen Heart, I was the most fed on my team because of 1v1ing if I was alone and cleaning up kills when my very bad adc died, granted though everyone else on my team was either like 1/2/2 or feeding but i was like 8/2/5 with no damage items and the whole time I kept talking about how stupid this damage is) I had 9/0/21 masteries, too.

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  14. What about poor lux :(

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  15. I think Zilean mid needs a to go up a few tiers shown by the koreans.

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  16. If only Tryndamere was mentioned in this analysis. It would've said he would be in god tier. The nerfs to most top laners with Elise and Lee sin make Tryndamere rise to the top. Also tryndamere counters ww top.

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  17. Roku KaemonJuly 31, 2014

    Yeah but her Q is up constantly now and her R has a MASSIVE slow. She is more of a sustained damage dealer now.

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  18. Sona - Till lvl 6 she doesnt do the same damage than before, but at some point she becomes really powerfull: the ammount of damage and utility is really high. Very important thing is maxing her CDR.

    Rammus - He is getting stronger and stronger with the nerfs to the other jungler, same goes for Maokai

    Vi - She could be the next permaban (since all those nerfs to the others): She doesnt require a lot of skills to play her decentily, and her teamfight power is enormus.

    Shaco - maybe a comeback of this champ?

    Yasuo - I still ban him because ppl have no idea on how to deal with him

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  19. Cyrus GivianpourJuly 31, 2014

    spamming her q isnt really practical in team fights due to her short range and high mana cost. the r slow is very buggy and is only going to be noticeably stronger at max rank. As a lissandra main, I like the old lissandra better but it may just take some adjustments.

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  20. Roku KaemonJuly 31, 2014

    Well 825(725 without shatter) range isn't that bad. 215 (65% AP) ain't half bad if it's on a 3 second CD.

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  21. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Vi becomes *the* jungler. If her early game cooldowns weren't so punishing, I'd agree. As is, however, her early game is pretty abusable - pretty much any jungler can take her down if they can invade or coutnergank her before level 5 or so. She obviously scales quite well and synergizes quite nicely with the current meta mid laners, however, so a case could be made.



    Either way, I don't think she's ban worthy.

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  22. wait I though shyvana does less dmg now :O

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  23. Overlord MalzaharJuly 31, 2014

    Can't say much since i agree with most of what you said, but two things i want to point out:
    1. About Lissandra, i think the best thing about the changes for her is the 70% slow on rank 3 Ult. It means that Lissandra will be a really good pick in 'surprise team-fights' comps, functioning pretty similar to Fiddlesticks - Waiting in nearby bushes or jungle camps until the enemy team approaches enough to 'E' in and Ult. Yes, it's kind of a niche pick, but i think it can work out in teams/high level games, so maybe we'll see Liss filling that role in the competitive scene? Not so sure about solo-queue performance.

    2. About Janna, the cooldown and CC changes aren't as significant since most players use Q as a reactionary tool, not really charging it up since most of the times it doesn't pay off. But the passive changes are quality of life improvements. The old range was really small, but it's not really such a big deal, it won't give her more power, but people who play her already will enjoy it.

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  24. Roku KaemonJuly 31, 2014

    Best thing shac can do in a team fight is use his clone to initiate. It ain't half bad cause it can totally freak people out when suddenly shaco is standing next to their carry; chaos issues then you mop up at the end.

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  25. Roku KaemonJuly 31, 2014

    That's always been my thing about kogmaw solo Q as well. If your team doesn't protect the kogmaw then he just has a little true damage self destruct. I find Nami and baum synergies with him the best, Nami especially gives you great kiting potential and can peel for you.

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  26. Darius getting better cuz everyone else is getting nerfed >:D dunks incoming

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  27. That's right... i totally forgot about the long CD in early game!

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  28. I strongly agree with the "seriously though"!

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  29. ownagemobileAugust 01, 2014

    I think this change will make lichbane good on her now, increasing her dps end game... I wouldn't rush it, maybe like 4th or 5th item

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  30. ownagemobileAugust 01, 2014

    Sona is definitely not that safe and NOT release braum. She has one of the lowest base health's in the game. I'm sorry but you were probably playing against a really bad bot lane to be able to get really fed and solo people.

    Also a one game sample size is really not a good indicator... If you have a 8/0/18 support urgot game one time would that make him op?

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  31. ownagemobileAugust 01, 2014

    Most popular supports still go frost fang or relic... Tho I think thresh will want coin more now for picks. I think nami still wants frost fang, but maybe coin isn't a terrible idea on her

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  32. So, Vi and J4 seems to have fairly similar kits. Which do you guys think will be stronger in this patch and why?

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  33. koreans aren't even good. NA>Korea

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  34. BegclawmrfAugust 01, 2014

    Oh I didn't mention that I get that result (or at least have sona do really good) in a large majority of games I've had with Sona. Also to the urgot thing, maybe if he was 9/0/21 and built 0 offensive items.

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  35. rainy1314emily .August 01, 2014

    Someone asked if Assassins are getting buffed to bring them back in to the meta. Anyone wanna share some thoughts on that? I know the Chalice and Banshee nerf was considered the "buff" for Assassins. But I'm talking about value buffs, whose gonna get it?

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  36. ownagemobileAugust 01, 2014

    Did you play sona before the rework? And if you did you think you do not damage now?

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  37. Roku KaemonAugust 01, 2014

    I mean if we are talking about competitive then shaco is just gonna need his clone to be indistinguishable from him. And have his boxes activate(as in from setting them to working) faster.

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  38. BegclawmrfAugust 01, 2014

    Yeah i played her pre rework (she was the first champion i ever really liked to play) My real point is that she's really safe for her adc as well as doing a considerable amount of damage without building for it, and then also having that huge teamfight changing ult.

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  39. drack fareliAugust 01, 2014

    "No more Lee Sin or Evelynn? I think that maybe Jarvan, Vi, Nunu will get more popular, don't quote me on this." - Atixja

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  40. KingoftheSocksAugust 01, 2014

    Ehh demands a fed team member for him to be his viable stage. Without it all he has is good aoe damage, an ms increase and cd reductiin and seeing as fizz is getting popular and more powerful Zilean isn't that good. I would disagree T4. Maybe T3 instead but nowhere above T2 at most

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  41. ShadowSectAugust 01, 2014

    I disagree and agree with both you and begclaw. Sona is an incredibly safe pick for the long haul, but a terrible pick for an early game benefit support.
    Her early game got SCREWED. She's always had one of the lowest base health (that's not new), but that's not what hurts her early game. Her long CD, weaker heal, and expensive mana problems can be a nuisance, and she's pretty susceptible to ganks.
    That being said, her late game got the opposite. MOTHER OF ALL GOD
    I've played her rework ever since it went onto PBE, and now on live, I'm doing really well by what normal Sonas haven't done yet. CAPITALIZE HER LATE GAME.
    Her late game is atrociously good. Her heal quickly becomes incredible, her ult's passive is a huge benefit, her shield is now more useful, her ult no longer requires a flash to pull off thanks to her expansive mobility, and if you take advantage of her auras, she's nigh god tier.
    That all being said, she hasn't changed from Tier 1. It's weird for a support to have an terrible terrible early game and a godlike late game.
    As for Begclaw, I question him. Why in the world did you go 9/0/21 with the new Sona, and get those results? I actually not only doubt it but also that you did well with a Frozen Heart. WTF
    That is NOT how you build the new Sona, and it makes your item build seem like BS.
    She is extremely good with CDR items now, but not those ones if you REALLY want to kill people. Athene's and Morellonomicon are top.
    I want to see these games. Proof?
    My proof is my PBE file if you have PBE. Check the accounts RhedogianPBE, EzrealandTARDIS, and NJ Ice, if you have PBE and are able to do that.
    But never have I gotten kills, especially with what you describe. It doesn't matter if the bot lane you were going against was atrocious or not, but did the enemy team SERIOUSLY not gank?

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  42. ShadowSectAugust 01, 2014

    I sincerely doubt that Sona is worse than she was pre-rework. If anything she got better. Her late game is OUTRAGEOUS despite her now atrocious early game.

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  43. wukong onlyAugust 01, 2014

    But his passive helps a lot with other lanes getting fed and has a win rate above 50%. late game his q can basically have a 3.6 second coolddown and his ult a 40 second cooldown, and potentially a permaslow or perma ms boost. Also he has good wave clear. Not only his he starting to get banned in competitive a lot but his win rate shows that he is clearly good and deserves at least tier 2 if not tier 1.

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  44. Roku KaemonAugust 02, 2014

    That's what I've found from my few games having her on my team, if you can touch her circles(easier late game) then you can see the shield you get or the bonus dmgae or the speed up. I still see that in mid game where team fights are more condensed with people squashed into a single lane that sona becomes easier to kill. Once you get to late game she is really quite strong.

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  45. I think she is also a little better in lane too, she can do a lot more burst damage than she did before. Although, this requires A LOT more risk due to the short range. Considering the supports that are played today: all-in short-ranged tanks, she will have a tough time. She can definately out-poke anyone though.

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  46. I actually think the banshees nerf helped mages a lot more than assassins cuz mages can pop it in a safe distance then instaburst them. Syndra is a great example of the mages I am talkin about.

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  47. I love how everyone is crying about the Elise, Lee, and Evelynn nerfs. I am lovin this patch, my junglers (yes I am a jungle main) are SO HAPPY: Amumu, Sejuani, Nautilus, Skarner, and Jarvan shall never die!

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  48. Roku KaemonAugust 02, 2014

    I would argue that he deserves low tier 2. Think of his ult like kayles, you click someone and if they die then they come back. Plus having a double 60% speed up is really nice. His Q has really good scaling and with his W you will almost always get 2 off so the damage is 180 / 290 / 400 / 520 / 640 (+ 180% AP). Mid he is free to build full AP items and make use of his scaling, its recommended that you build CD as well though. Putting his ult on the ADC is an almost sure fire way to win team fights cause it heals for 600 / 850 / 1100 (+ 200% AP).

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  49. Lux is gonna snowball even harder now! I LOVE IT!

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  50. Renekton would like to say otherwise.....

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  51. around 3 ticks less dude and only in dragon form, it isnt gonna move her at all.

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  52. Elises E range was OP initially and was overlooked forever due to her base damages being so high earlier. If u dont think from the edge of blue to wolves is op then idk wat is.
    Lee Sin provided way too much late game utility, he is still the top dualist jungler as his damage was untouched.
    Evelynn has A TON of snowballing power now and she can spam a lot more, instead of buildin her full tank, I would go Lizard, Liandry's, Rylais, then rest tanky.
    If you need help on out-dualing Elise (outside of the nerfed trinity), I would pick Rengar, Pantheon, Vi, Jarvan(his Q and his passive actually hurt early), and maybe give Hecarim a shot due to his q mana reduction(he used to be OP in this aspect, it may come back a little)

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  53. ...removing Lee Sin's attack speed slow makes his enemies deal more damage to him, thus making him a worse duelist.


    That build sounds... silly. Playing an immobile, squishy, hybrid champ as a late game damage threat is not the most effective use of Eve's strengths possible.

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  54. KingoftheSocksAugust 02, 2014

    But thats all well and good but he's far too easily killed early game. He's outpoked by someone like orianna as he needs to be close to get his bombs off. He's far too easily assassinated, plenty of times he can ult himself only to die as soon as he gets back up. He offers no hard cc no huge burst (well nothing instant in any case). Yes he can instant revive the adc but what if he's doing badly, what if the whole teams doing badly. Yes the exp passive helps but that doesn't mean that everyone will snowball 100% of the time.

    But much like Yorick he brings that niche of making a teamfight 6v5. His bombs do have massive damage behind them and bis w+e have decent utility. But with a large amount of ways to stop the bombs doing the maximum damage they can just be too unreliable in some matchups (fizz looking at you). And with no escape his good waveclear can just lead to early ganks.

    Also in terms of lcs never trust it when it comes to soloq. They ban more because they don't know how to counter it rather than it being a massive threat and everyone on said team is working around Zilean for the team comp and know how to play with it rather than soloq who mostly won't.

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  55. KingoftheSocksAugust 02, 2014

    A roaming blitz could do well with i. Nunu jungle as well. (Maybe even rammus for hyper speed but thats jjst sounds like for fun

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  56. She does more of what she was made to do now; kite for days. I feel she may come out more as a tanky top laner, especially as her ability to just lock down on the enemy team has become a lot, lot better.

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  57. Roku KaemonAugust 02, 2014

    And that's why I argue that low tier 2 is the correct place for him. His passive just gives 8% additional experience which, while it can let your team snowball, will also make it harder for your opponents to outdo you in levels. I personally don't see him as deserving of tier 4 and view him as being a utility mid laner sort of like lulu. He isn't really strong nor is he excessively weak as far as I've seen.

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  58. Nicolas CageAugust 02, 2014

    Well, there are a few assassins who're pretty powerful already, like Fizz and Talon.


    If we're going to see direct buffs to assassins, I would imagine Zed is a prime candidate, since he's been out of the competitive scene for a while, fun to watch, and Riot is currently trying to diversify the competitive pool. I would hope Kha'Zix would get buffed too, since just about everyone has given up on making him work after the nerfs, including pros at this point.

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  59. Roku KaemonAugust 02, 2014

    I recently played her mid vs a zed and ended up winning the game. You have a built in zhonyas which makes her a good counter to burst assassins and she also has a root for the popular melee assassins. I feel like she is pretty decent now.

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  60. KingoftheSocksAugust 02, 2014

    Low tier 2/1st place in t3. He does have his niche and strong points. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against Zilean and would love to see him God Tier but when a pro plays a champ and then everyone annouces the champ is OP urks me. Its similar to when Overpow played Mordekaiser once or twice and then everyone got on the morde hype train before remembering why he was low tier.

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  61. Roku KaemonAugust 02, 2014

    Indeed, its rare that we see any teams get creative with their picks but if they do, and win, then they suddenly get into the mainstream solo Q and people discuss them more. In zileans case I think its a good thing as he really isn't deserving of tier 4 and is overall pretty fun to play(the amount of rage in all chat when you save your ADC is hilarious, especially in bronze when people have no clue what happened XD).

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  62. KingoftheSocksAugust 02, 2014

    Which is why I'd love Zilean to get picked a Zillion times in soloq... nope... okay.

    Speaking of unconventional picks what about Maokai top and Gragas support. nRated picking it up reminded me it still exsisted

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  63. Roku KaemonAugust 02, 2014

    Maokai top is ridiculouslying mana hungry but he fits the meta of tank tops currently. He also is a pretty effective counter to ryze top and a lot of other ranged tops with his saplings and twisted advance. More of a counter pick but decent overall. Gragas seems like a pretty effective sup but I don't see a reason to pick him as a sup over any of the other choices.

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  64. wukong onlyAugust 02, 2014

    This is true, win rate doesn't mean everything, but zilean is the only champion on the list with a positive win rate and placed below balanced tier. I'm sure galio would be placed tier 3 for example if ssj didn't see the high win rate. Lcs is different for sure but imo seeing pro play and having a positive win rate generally is enough to prove the champ is at least balanced. He has his counters, weaknesses yes, but so do even the god tier champs. Also fiora was placed god tier just because of her high win rate and nothing else, while i agree fiora is strong (but slightly below god tier) it shows that win rate does mean a lot. Zilean definetly deserves tier 2 for these reasons.

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  65. Ok, that makes sense. Thanks!

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  66. Maokai is essentially the old Dr. Mundo with hard CC. You don't pick him to counter someone in lane - you pick him because he scales incredibly well into late game teamfights where he's essentially impossible to kill and makes everybody on your team incredibly tanky. When he's not on a jungler's income, he's a *huge* late game threat.


    If you haven't already watched it, I'd recommend checking out the first game between Samsung White and Samsung Blue yesterday morning - it's a fantastic example of the power of Maokai.

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  67. Vi vs. Elise is basically reliant on who gets the drop on whom. If Vi uses her Q on a camp (or gets it rapelled), Elise absolutely crushes her.

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  68. I would run 9/21/0 going cdr and ap in offense.

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  69. The as removal doesn't hurt him much early game though. Maybe vs flare junglers but against Elise, not at all.

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  70. When you're level 3, *every* jungler is going to get the bulk of their damage from auto attacks. 3 rank 1 abilities - of which at least a few most likely don't even deal damage - are simply not enough damage to kill somebody. Elise is actually an excellent example of a jungler that was hurt by the old cripple. Her standard rune pages include one or both of hybrid penetration and attack speed, her R gives her 10 bonus magic damage on each attack, her passive gives her spiderling whose damage scales entirely with attack speed, and her W gives her 60% attack speed steroid for 3 seconds at rank 1.


    I mean, imagine if Nunu had his attack speed slow on his snowball outright removed. Do you think it wouldn't hurt his early game much?

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  71. Does anyone have insight on the Maokai top fad in the LCS here in NA superweek? I was under the impression Maokai was best junglin', but it has been flavor of the week here in superweek.


    Why the sudden pick? What's his strengths? Is he a bully or a negator of kill potential? Aren't his mana costs too high? Is Q maxed first?

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  72. XDragonGodAugust 02, 2014

    LOL that's just sad you had to like your on comment. But I agree with one of your points, due to the nerfs of junglers like Lee Sin and Evelynn, champions that were already strong in the jungle will now be more playable because of them (Vi/Jarvan IV)

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  73. His passive is basically a Mundo ultimate in teamfights, and his ultimate is basically a permanent drunken rage (and then some) for everyone on your team. He also does respectable damage with nothing but a RoA while still being ungodly tanky.


    Also, he's pretty lousy at doing 'junger things,' so you might as well give him some extra farm and let an actually competent ganker handle that stuff.


    I've mentioned it elsewhere, but look at game 1 between Samsung White and Samsung Blue yesterday morning. It's a really good example of why he's such a high priority pick at the moment.

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  74. Lee Sin's dueling power against Junglers like Aatrox and Udyr went down significantly because of the removal of the attack speed buff. \

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  75. Lee SeunghwanAugust 02, 2014

    Lissandra is "likly" moving mid/top to tier 1

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  76. SquirrelNutkinsAugust 03, 2014

    "'No more Lee Sin or Evelynn? I think that maybe Jarvan, Vi, Nunu will get more popular, don't quote me on this.' - Atixja" - drack fareli

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  77. KingoftheSocksAugust 03, 2014

    Can I just ask what is everyone's thoughts on Fizz jungle. On the games I've played it he feels like pre nerf Kha Zix with good early ganks. Decent duels early game and a fantastic late game assassin+initiator with his ult.

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  78. oh yea I forgot about that, I though all of her dueling power was in her q, ty

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  79. The trade off is, a shift in the meta towards scaling tanks is going to make Yi's late game worse relative to the enemy jungler's. I can't imagine Yi vs. Rammus being a particularly fun matchup at any stage of the game.

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  80. Thoughts on the new Evelynn, now that I've had the time to play her a bit.


    tl;dr She is now even more terrifying when she snowballs, but sucks ass when she doesn't.


    Touching on runes and masteries- I've personally started running AD Quints and Marks, alongside AP Glyphs. The increased damage on her auto attacks mitigates the decreased damage on her Qs, and I've actually found myself clearing the jungle about as quickly as I was last patch (finishing my second buff between 3:00 and 3:05). It is a bit of a hit to her burst damage, but I think the sacrifice is worth it to keep that sexy 15 second window where you can basically pretend the other jungler doesn't exist.


    Itemization wise, I've hit upon a bit of an issue. Since you have to run offensive glyphs and 21 offense for your first clear, you're generally quite low on magic resist. Obviously, Evelynn used to rush Hexdrinker to resolve that as quickly as possible, but the damage returns are a bit low on the item. Personally, I think Trinity Force is the way to go, both because the item has ridiculous synergy with her kit (Dark Frenzy+Rage=Mach 5 Eve, Spellblade and Hate Spike have the same cooldown, hybrid scaling), and because it's got a very easy build path. With something like BotRK, there are gonna be really significant gaps where you're basically not getting anything out of your gold, while triforce gives you something handy at 400 gp increments.


    This is the main issue I'm running in to, though. Even though Triforce is an incredibly sexy item for her, it's pretty costly, and Eve is a champion that really, really needs tank stats to function in team fights. So, if you get a few early kills and farm really well, you're just a monster - you deal *way* more damage than Eve previously did, while still being about as tanky as you would have been in a normal Eve game pre patch. If you get behind early, however, you're just going to explode in teamfights and be useless all game because your itemization tree is balls expensive, and the old cheap build (Lizard+Hexdrinker) is just worse now.


    In terms of general viability, I don't think she's actually changed that much on average. In games she gets ahead, she's better, and in games she gets behind, she's worse, by about the same margin either way. And, of course, she still brings stupid early game pressure, neutral objective clear speed, and pretty solid teamfighting for a jungler.


    I think that, on reevaluation, the change was more of a tweak than a nerf or a buff. She's a riskier, more rewarding champion now - but not a *worse* one. When the tier list comes out, I think she should stay in tier 1.

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  81. CHINGCHONGAugust 03, 2014

    To those who don't get tis joke-Your blinder than lee sin

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  82. Alekss IskanderovsAugust 05, 2014

    LEESIN TO ME! YOUR JOKE ISNT FUNNY

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  83. Dan IliescuAugust 06, 2014

    To those who can't see your message-This guy has some pro english skills

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  85. I think it's pretty pathetic what little discussion Rengar gets. He is an AD hypercarry assassin. There are only a few of them and it seems riot just wants to throw Rengar under that rug like Zed. This is a gigantic joke considering Rengar just had a "giant" rework a few patches ago. Now he cant even break a 50% win rate in Gold solo queue? What is wrong with the balancing department allowing them to just toss a champion out like they did with Rengar in his rework, then slowly cut him up , piece by piece , all while calling it a balance? Yo, author nerf please. I think it's pretty ignorant you give NO feedback about these Rengar changes. OBVIOUSLY you don't main him. But if you are so ignorant where you can't see what riot is doing to poor champs like Rengar, why do you have such a successful website? Feedback sites are a joke because they never discuss the true horrors at hand.

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  86. SSJSuntasticAugust 18, 2014

    Someone's being a bit over dramatic

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  87. Thanks! That's exactly the feedback I expect about a Rengar topic. Completely nonconstructive and utterly useless, thanks for nothing! Had this of been a lee sin criticism, I bet 4, maybe 5 people would have put sarcastic comments along with yours, "SSJSuntastic".

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  88. I apologize if I come off a bit harsh, but please understand where i am coming from. My account is a gold5 soloque, 2 years of league play this December.
    I have played Rengar ever since I purchased him in March of 2013. I have been through his thick and thins and I must say, this is the most lackluster and unbalanced side of Rengar I have ever seen.

    The BIG ISSUES: I'd like to see any competitive player try engaging a fight now with the latest stealth nerf. 1200 units away and they know I am coming? I was able to manage with the 1000 units... but this is ridiculous. What is the unit length for Eve.....? O.O
    BIGGEST ISSUE: --Beginning of season 4-- Riot shows their love for carries in the jungle, offering strong farming builds and aggressive builds. Jungle Carries were able to decide if they waned to have strong lane presence early with risk or if they wanted to scale into a teamfighter late game for consevation. Now Rengar is FORCED into being aggressive. Tie this in with ALL of the latest tank jungler buffs. Oh wait... didn't riot say they were going to help carries out in the jungle? If I sat here and listed the season 4 carry junglers to the season 4 tank junglers.. we should see some balance, riot? NOT.....

    I mean after all, the department is here to BALANCE the game, not create erratic number spikes at random points in a given build causing player uncertainty to say "WTF OP"? Why would you simultaneously buff junglers like Mao, J4, Sej, Vi, etc. while NERFING champions like Rengar?

    150 second cooldown on his ultimate at first rank.... Oh makes sense, Rengar is at SUCH a high win rate in solo que ranked that his all in kit should have some risk/reward factoring.. Oh wait, he isn't... so why did you nerf him riot? Yet it's okay for Vi to run around being a mobile bully who can build tank and still dish out sustained damage... Balancing department needs a giant overhaul in this game if it's going to last this decade...

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  89. Nicolò LevoratoAugust 21, 2014

    want to get free points for all your favorite games? try, you won't repent!

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  90. Bill GhustaAugust 22, 2014

    It's great as for someone who only plays fizz in the jungle(not mid) he has great mobility through the jungle if you can use him right and the ganks are great too. you just have to know how to use and build him and he will dominate. max w first for the jungle clear then e

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  91. Dr. Mid LaneAugust 28, 2014

    What is this..? .-.

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