All tier lists are archived for historical tier list purposes. The full always-up-to-date League of Legends Tier List has moved to a permanent bookmarkable page: League of Legends Tier List.
SEASON 4 UPDATE
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
Still working on the new developments for this tier list, but in the meantime check out the updates for Patch 4.17! Tons of new changes including reworks on Viktor and Soraka as well as a slew of buffs on some older underplayed champions.
Let's hop right into it!
Patch 4.17 Summary
Updates:Buffs: Cassiopeia, Garen, Heimerdinger, Karma, Leblanc, Miss Fortune, Nautilus, Rammus,
Nerfs: Maokai, Nidalee, Talon, Tristana
Reworks: Viktor, Soraka
- 9/30: Moved Rammus up to #1, quality of life buffs in the patch were actually very substantial
- 10/1: Added some thoughts on Azir
- 10/4: Jayce moved up
- 10/9: Riven moved up, Ori moved up, Lux moved down, Morg moved down, Vel'koz/Zyra support moved down
The Tier ListSearch for a champion:
God Tier [Highest Influence]:
Mid-Lane Gods: Katarina, Ahri
Jungle Gods: Rammus, Amumu, Wukong, Kha'Zix, Jarvan IV, Maokai, Warwick, Fiddlesticks
AD Gods: Tristana, Lucian, Corki, Jinx
Top Lane Gods: Wukong, Ryze, Maokai, Fiora
Support Gods: Janna, Morgana, Leona, Blitzcrank
Tier 1 [Strong/Preferred Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Talon, Orianna, Akali, Fizz, Swain, Lux, Malzahar, Syndra, Vel'Koz, Brand, Ziggs, Galio, Zyra, Xerath, Zilean, Anivia, Morgana, Heimerdinger, Wukong
Jungle: Vi, Sejuani, Pantheon, Skarner, Nunu
AD Carry: Draven, Miss Fortune, Caitlyn
Top Lane: Rumble, Swain, Warwick, Lulu, Irelia, Akali, Malphite, Jarvan IV, Tryndamere, Gnar, Yorick, Singed, Teemo, Vladimir, Lissandra, Jayce, Riven, Pantheon
Support: Sona, Nami,
Tier 2 [Viable/Balanced Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Twisted Fate, Yasuo, Diana, Lissandra, Pantheon, Lulu (AP), Annie, Viktor, Kayle, Karma, Zed, Karthus, Fiora, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Teemo, Ryze, Jayce
Jungle: Nautilus, Master Yi, Lee Sin, Volibear, Udyr, Xin Zhao, Rengar, Kayle, Jax, Shaco, Zac, Cho'Gath, Nocturne, Tryndamere, Aatrox, Olaf, Malphite, Dr. Mundo, Nasus, Trundle, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Kog'Maw, Vayne, Graves, Sivir, Ashe, Varus,
Top Lane: Kennen, Nasus, Heimerdinger, Darius, Volibear, Yasuo, Alistar, Rengar, Jax, Renekton, Dr. Mundo, Trundle, Aatrox, Udyr, Karma, Garen, Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, Shyvana, Kayle, Cho'gath, Olaf, Gangplank, Xin Zhao, Viktor, Poppy, Quinn, Vi, Zed
Support: Thresh, Braum, Vel'Koz, Zyra, Alistar, Annie, Lulu, Xerath, Zilean, Karma, Taric, Fiddlesticks, Soraka
Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
Mid-Lane: Sion, Kassadin, Kennen, Gragas, Veigar, Leblanc, Nidalee (AP), Kha'Zix, Riven, Tristana, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks, Kog'maw, Ezreal (AP), Elise
Jungle: Hecarim, Evelynn, Leona, Elise, Shyvana, Shen, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Gragas, Riven, Poppy, Darius, Fizz
AD Carry: Ezreal, Quinn, Twitch, Twisted Fate, Kennen
Top Lane: Shen, Gragas, Nidalee, Master Yi, Zac, Talon, Elise, Mordekaiser, Sion, Vayne, Nunu, Galio
Support: Nautilus, Lux, Gragas, Maokai, Volibear, Nunu, Kayle, Teemo, Malphite, Anivia, Syndra, Veigar, Gangplank
Tier 4 [Low Benefits for Effort Used]:
Mid-Lane: Cassiopeia, Urgot, Soraka, Azir, Janna
Jungle: Gangplank, Garen, Blitzcrank
AD Carry: Urgot
Top Lane: Soraka, Urgot
Support: Nidalee, Orianna, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Shen, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
- This tier list takes data from ALL players; however, since the majority of players fall in the first three tiers, the majority of data points will come from there.
- Win Rates are important in analyzing each champion's strength, but are not the end-all criteria for any champion's position.
- The creator of this list is diamond, so there may be some personal bias towards higher tier play on certain champions.
Champion Explanations
- Azir [Tier 4 Mid]: Azir offers very little in the way of obvious damage, and his skills are difficult to synergize with, hence his rock bottom win rate. There's probably a skill cap factor involved as well; this combined with the fact that nothing he does it very understandable for allies nor offers enough benefit to utilize on enemies means that he's not viable for solo queue at the moment.
- Brand [Tier 1 Mid]: Despite seeing next to no professional play, Brand is actually very strong in solo queue right now simply due to his insane amount of damage and surprisingly long CC and range. With nerfs on other popular mid laners the community will soon remember what a lane bully he was upon release. Poor Annie.
- Braum [Tier 2 Support]: Despite many people still reliving the horrors of pre-nerf Braum in their mind repeatedly, he's really not as strong as you remember him to be.
- Cassiopeia [Tier 4 Mid]: Simply put, she still needs more. Her win rate rose from 39% to 44%, but that just makes her better than Urgot (which is nothing to write home about).
- Garen [Tier 2 Top]: His buffs have made him surprisingly strong; we'll see where it takes him. A lot of champion in the current scene are still highly mobile, which causes difficulties for him.
- Janna [God Tier Support]: I've wanted to keep her a secret while I stack up the free wins, but after worlds I think it's no secret that she's OP now. She may be stronger than Morgana in some regards, but I think that a lot of her success still comes from the fact that Morgana is banned 100% of the time in solo queue.
- Katarina [God Tier Mid]: Katarina is an absolute monster in solo queue right now as champion after champion gets nerfed. Even if she goes relatively even in lane, you'll hear a lot of "I did fine until she started feeding off you guys".
- Malzahar [Tier 1 Mid]: Malzahar, like Brand is a solo queue machine and does very well slaying assassins, tanks, and everyone in between. His laning phase is also very simple and as long as you remember to place W under a champion before you R, his success rate is very high.
- Miss Fortune [Tier 1 ADC]: The strut change is significant, although limited in use.
- Nidalee [Tier 3 Top]: Nidalee's nerfs have brought her down a whole new level from "Needs experience to do well" to "needs experience to do mediocre". I suggest staying away from her completely now unless you know you're just THAT good at her (and that bad at everyone else).
- Soraka [Tier 2 Support/Tier 4 Mid]: She'll likely move up in both places, but I'll reserve judgement for now as I haven't actually played her mid and while she's definitely a better than before her rework, it doesn't appear to instantly place her above other crowd favorites.
- Talon [Tier 1 Mid]: Although his silence removal does offer "counterplay", the change to his silence really only affects players under Diamond, so expect to see a lot of high ranked players saying the nerfs meant nothing. The speed at which Talon can execute his entire combo honestly doesn't offer any counterplay once he gets fed. Death is the hardest CC, just ask Katarina.
- Tristana [God Tier ADC]: Simply put, her nerfs were relatively meager in comparison to her power level, and very situational where it would cost a lost lane or game.
- Vi [Tier 1 Jungle]: Moving Vi down simply to make a bit of room in the god tier junglers. She's still strong, but not as impactful.
- Viktor [Tier 2 Mid]: His rework gave him some new life, but I'm seeing some mixed reactions on the charts, keeping an eye out for him.
- Vladimir [Tier 1 Top]: Vladimir's seen a steady climb after Riot nerfed spellvamp long long ago. With the elimination of a lot of his predators, he's finding new prey.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
Yay Katarina God Tier.
ReplyDeleteBlood For Noxus
suck it talon.
Idk if kat is a god tier mid right now since she gets shat on by cc and her laning phase is pretty hard against the fotm caster mids like Orianna and Syndra. Respectively if she gets her resets and knows how to roam properly she can make a huge influence after laning phase.
ReplyDeleteZed should be higher regardless of his high skill cap he's a stomper atm
ReplyDeleteI agree his damage is insane and he has a great escape.
ReplyDeletemid lane tristana got nerfed hard so i think shes teir 4 as she works with her ult alot
ReplyDeleteRumble is god, for all the korean meta sheep.
ReplyDeletealso ap nid may be more viable
ReplyDeleteI guess riot didn't release a pay-to-win champion for once. ;)
ReplyDeleteViktor is in a very good spot now after the rework . His kit provides a lot of options and he can be very adaptable to most situations . But just like what most people say : he need practice . He can be built in many more ways than a typical champion by prioritizing which augment is suitable against his opponent add to that his death ray needs practice to learn . But he is very rewarding if a person invested some time in him . He can easly 1v3 ,zone , harass,stun .burst, engage, run ,trap ,deny enemy farm , and delete enemy waves by just one death ray . But yet he isn't a carry nor OP . You cant just build any item and spam or troll just because you are a certain champion. He is more like a game maker if you had at least a decent farm early game then you are good to go and just destroy your enemy .
ReplyDeleteYou just described orianna.
ReplyDeleteWhy was Swain moved down? :( I think Swain is ridiculously strong.
ReplyDeleteVLAD TIER 1 YES I KNEW THE DAY WOULD COME!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDelete1 thing to add, tryn and malphite both for the past month have had a win rate of greater than 52.5% in solo que, considering how much they can carry a game in completely different ways might be worth moving them up even more then where they are...
ReplyDeleteIs Lucian mid any good?
ReplyDeleteno
ReplyDeletewhy is elise so low? just found this tier list but i dont understand shes a really good jungler with lots of team utility and a high skill cap?
ReplyDeletejanna will forever be lose lane in yolo queue bec relying on ADC with half a brain there is impossible unless you're gold 2 or higher.
ReplyDeletePretty much said that people need to take advantage of her shield AD instead of using it as a pseudo heal.
While I don't completely agree with you, you have a great point. If we're talking bronze here, I really don't think Janna's a good pick. Yes, you have the disengage and the CC.....but in laning phase, 50% of the time your ADC will be getting butt stomped by the enemy leona/thresh/morgana with the lucian/graves/jinx. I feel as if it actually takes a more experienced ADC to know how to lane with a Janna....when i was in bronze, no ADC understood that the shield gives you an AD boost....so it was always wasted, thus hurting some of Janna's impact.
ReplyDeleteYES GODDAMN IT YES. THAT PUNK ASS NIDALEE IS FINALLY GONE... Hmm excuse me.
ReplyDeleteAlso happy to see Garen being back to being t2
The Rift needs more Demacia
Why is thresh tier 2? I can think of no reason for him to be so low.
ReplyDeleteHuge nerfs in 4.13 made him have a lot less kill potential than before.
ReplyDeleteYasuo needs to be at least Tier 1, he's banned in so many games.
ReplyDeleteI actually agree with this one, his crit passive is so stupid but just because a champion is banned a lot doesnt mean he is the strongest, look at Nidalee, still banned like crazy yet useless.
ReplyDeleteEverything after Rammus in God Tier Jungle needs to be dropped down to Tier 1. Wukong is not optimal in jungle, although good. With Khaz and Jarvan, neither of them are any where near the potential of a Rammus or Amumu as far as solo queue goes.
ReplyDeleteI agree as well. Easy to play, and also scales so well.
ReplyDeletelawl
ReplyDeleteBut his game carrying power is still one of the best for supports in soloqueue. Why are nerfs in 4.13 making him drop two tiers 4 patches later?
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Elise is her skill floor. After her nerfs a while back she became a champion that was next to useless unless you could play her well. There are just easier jungles to play that can offer more without having to master the champion. You will see Elise played at the competitive level because of her high skill cap, but you'll also see easier to play jungles such as Nunu or Rammus. At the end of the day Elise is like Nidalee where if you can play her well she is a monster but if you are not comfortable with her then other champions can offer more.
ReplyDeleteMmk. As far as Azir is concerned. He's definitely not God Tier or anything he definitely has bad matchups and weaknesses. But overall I'm calling him at minimum Tier 2 with the ability to hit Tier 1. Problem i'm seeing now is that alot of Azir's are pretty much noobs following the recommended build to the T. Nashor's Tooth is not a great item for it. It gives him a power spike in a sense but this Power Spike is much more efficiently reached with Athene's Deathcap and Boots of Lucidity. The problem with Azirs on live at the moment is lack of build knowledge and how to play this character. But in my mind with proper practice and skill he has a relatively high ceiling for play making when it comes down to it.
ReplyDeletewhy is cassiopeia tier 4 if you are good with her you can carry so hard and her ult is so good in
ReplyDeleteteam fights
see Malz is very strong people use him to kill akali
ReplyDeleteIt's the best ADC mid if that's what you are thinking, but it still sucks.
ReplyDeleteWhy ashe is so low on tier 2 ? She has about the same winrate as god tier adc, and she is quite straightforward to play.
ReplyDeleteWe need a Tier List for High Elo. I mean wtf? Kata God Tier? Everyone in High Plat and above will laugh about that.
ReplyDeleteI Think that janna is a good Pick for lower divisions, you can make up for your team's mistakes, since you are a peeling machine.
ReplyDeleteHello.
ReplyDeleteYes, some champ like Katarina or Amumu are much less powerful in hight elo. However, they can do surprisingly well in diamond. They are far being trash at this level. At diamond 1 and challenger, that might be different but then you should have your own opinion.^^
ReplyDeleteYellow :)
ReplyDeleteNerfs and a high skill requirement
ReplyDeletei need a new way to play him right now i just cant seem to do well with him probably cos i vsed a syndra
ReplyDeleteThresh has probably more presence than janna could ever wish in lower elos. Also he has the kit everything.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, a good janna and competent adc make sure they'll shred the opponent without them laying a finger on your carries. The fact that her real strength lies with teamwork(duo q) means that this tier list is just chuck full of opinions based on recent e$ports matches.
Need i remind you again this is a solo q tier list?
My opinion is not based in this Word's matches, i was really choked that Janna received that much attention. About the duo q thing, the tendency is that Duo Q do better than 2 unknown ppl in the bot lane. About Thresh: i have a huge problem using him (i'm a Silver player), ppl tend to use HEAL + FLASH other than using the freaking lantern. But i guess that you are right, Janna is too dependant on her team, it would be easier to carry using a Pub Stomper, just as Leona
ReplyDeletewhile i agree with you that elise has lots of team utility and shes a strong duelist early on in the game, people just don't know how to play her. I don't know how many times i have come up with and against elise and they go for a gank and end up dieing and giving away a free kill. Since this list is catered for lower elos (bronze-gold) i would say that she is fine where she is but it was for higher i would personally put her in tier 1 or even god tier. This is coming from an elise main so i have tons of practice with her.
ReplyDeleteMostly because she has little mobility, and her winrate is below 50%. The rework helped and she may move up as time goes on and people get better with her, but the buff wasn't enough to move her up really high. I've yet to see any Cass "carry really hard"
ReplyDeleteAgreed with Mr. Squirrel. Trim the gods to be only the top 2-3 in each role.
ReplyDeleteJarvan is really good, but I've still seen so many failed Cataclysms in Bronze/Silver that do more to lock their teams out than to lock the opponents in.
Operative part of your statement is "soloqueue". Many times those in solo don't even have the situational awareness to grab the lantern to either escape or to join in on a gank.
ReplyDeleteAs his impact on lower tiered games continues to decrease, so does his rank in this list I'm imagining. That and other supports are being buffed and moving ahead of him. Keep in mind that Tier2 is the balanced tier and he's the tops in that range. I would agree that all those above him are better at this point.
Have to agree here. I've seen some decent Janna's in bronze/silver, but usually the ADC cannot follow up. She's not god tier right now. Bit of a knee-jerk reaction to the recent LCS showcase for Janna.
ReplyDeleteThe problem though as far as this tier list goes is that he requires a high skill cap. Under the basic assumption that this tier is for average level players, with average level team support, and average understanding of a champion, it makes going into solo q somewhat challenging with Azir. Obviously learning to play a champion can make you do better things with them, the point is still that right now learning to control Azir is beyond most players. Add to the fact that most teams don't understand him right now, and you're creating a champion that isn't being utilized correctly. So I can understand where a tier 3 would be recommended, but isn't that somewhat just splitting hairs?
ReplyDeleteGranted I think as people learn to use him better, his skill cap will decrease since it will be easier to find guides and proper builds and what not. But for now the average player can't really use him.
Actually, Janna has a top 10 win rate in silver as well.
ReplyDeleteOne could make the argument that every support player in the game sucks and is completely reliant on an ADC to be good. Also there are people that can say "well i played xyz champion and was super fed", it doesn't really change much. The point of Janna is that she provides a passive speed boost, a huge peel with her ult (arguably one of the best support ults in the game), a shield, and lots and lots of disengage. Yet you say that is less helpful than Thresh? Who requires an even higher skill cap, and even more interaction with an ADC as if they don't click the latern they die. At least a shield from Janna if you're in range is automatic, which you should somewhat hope you as a support know how to protect your ADC.
ReplyDeleteCan Thresh stop a Lee Sin's Q, and Akali's R, and a Shyvana ultimate all at the same time? (Technically yes I suppose)
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, think about how surprised you'd be if a Thresh did it compared to if a Janna did it. If a Janna did it then the enemy team would just say she's broken. If a Thresh did it then the entire enemy would be like OMG SO PRO.
Also, her Q can do it from much longer range than Thresh, has a larger effective range, and she still has her ultimate as backup.
Pawn used her on Worlds and they rekt lol. Plus, this tier list takes data from Bronze to Gold since most statistics are from there.
ReplyDeleteR.I.P. Talon (2011-2014)
ReplyDeleteMy favourite thing about Brand is the fact that it's leaps and bounds easier to 1v1 him than to 2v1 him.
ReplyDelete"I'll come mid to shut down Brand"
"NONONON- enemy double kill!
Hmmmm, Vel Koz, Gnar? I don't get it why people kept saying Riot purposely releasing champions "op" just to earn more money.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, you're some Minecraft kid.
If you dw kata to be god tier then who u want in god tier? Zilean?
ReplyDeleteHow is Draven not "[Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]" -- serious question.
ReplyDeletetristana ap shoudn't be there,you can kill ONLY with ulti,your spells got monstrous cd and only spell with reset is your jump that lead you in dangerous situations
ReplyDeleteThe Janna build used at worlds is carrying me through silver. Frostfang mobile boots with captain enchantment sightstone and locket plus a bunch of pink wards.
ReplyDeleteis early is so weak and he's melee,this mean that is dangerous to play safe until first items
ReplyDeletei think it too but in mid she provides low utility and in top she's a bit useless now
ReplyDeletegnar op? HE'S ONE OF THE WEAKEST CHAMP IN LOL
ReplyDeletevel koz op?HE'S ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT CHAMPS IN LOL
azir op?HE'S SO BUGGED NO ONE CAN USE HIM
viktor at least low tier 1,everything now he does is better than viktor pre rework
ReplyDeletewith all those ap tank that passively farms he's surely better but i think ryze is better cause everything he gots is aoe(ulti) and he also got a snare and spellvamp
ReplyDeleteplease if they rise people will use them and they will got nerfed
ReplyDeleteif you can dodge spells with e yes (aka you're a korean player)
ReplyDeletewhy should i take elise and wait a month for master her when i can just take rammus and spin my way to gold?
ReplyDeleteNow janna is god tier? Bitch please! She's god tier long time ago before worlds.
ReplyDeletejanna completely counters leona initiations and can deal with all the tanky supports,
ReplyDeletelate game she saves your team from those amumu's 5 men stuns (morgana can't do it)
for the shield question...you just shield the carry when he's about to engage and no power boost will be wasted
janna is op guys,i won a lane with a retarded lucian who didn't know how to use passive,just shielding him when he was going to engage
ReplyDeletewhy should i wait a mont for master tresh when i can just use blitzcrank and reach gold in one sec?
ReplyDeletei agree but only in mid,in top he gets bullied too much
ReplyDeletei agree somewhat but wukong isn't suboptimal in jungle and can carry almost like amumu
ReplyDeletei saw a cassio 14/5 but we still wrecked her,she's so weak to all ins
ReplyDeleteprepare for nerf stick
ReplyDeletebecause he depends on his Q and many people fail on that, especially on team fights
ReplyDeletei think she's more tier 3 than 4, but whatevs
ReplyDeleteSorry, what I meant was not optimal compared to other places. Wukong's a much better laner. Mid or Top, put him where can get gold from cs and poke enemy laners and that's where he shines early game. Also, he absolutely does not carry as hard as Amumu with any build in the jungle.
ReplyDeleteHe still deals insane damage and has the most snowball potential out of any ADC, what is keeping him out of God Tier is his skill cap.
ReplyDeleteDont pick her because she has a really hard time with any meta ADC atm.
ReplyDeleteShe turns the lane passive, which is not always good with a lot of low elo players who want to trade/fight in lane. Maybe its just me, but in my experience, low bronze adc's are a little trigger happy. Some think it's "lame" to stay passive. Some simply don't understand how to not play the same way every game, and that you might have to adjust. I also noticed her winrate picks up in silver and gold.
ReplyDeleteHe has been there, SSJ just now explained his placement. His base damages are through the roof, only thing keepin him out of god is his 0 moblility(he is worse than Vel'Koz at this aspect)
ReplyDeleteHis pick potential is amazing but he is now really reliant on his team since he deals next to no damage. I still pick him though as his utility is through the roof but he really struggles in laning phase now.
ReplyDeleteEzreal wants a word, although I suppose in mid he's an APC rather than an ADC so nevermind xD
ReplyDeleteMake videos about it! Most champions that have absolutely destroyed everyone had a bad start (e.g., Kassadin, Twisted Fate).
ReplyDeleteEr, well, I'm not saying TF has destroyed everyone, but he was considered bad before popularized
ReplyDeleteDid you mean more DEMACIA!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletei understand yout point and this is why is save tornado only for disengage,lots of janna's players camp bushes and charge tornadoes but this open a window of engage opportunity for the other duo.
ReplyDeleteIf played well anyway i think she can protect the worst trigger happy carry(for example a vayne) even vs a killane like blitz/corki cause her peel and her shield is insane right now
I feel that Tristana still beats him... oh wait she got banned again...
ReplyDeleteMore viable yes.... still not good in most matchups and not nearly as forgiving as she was pre-rework
ReplyDeletei understand your points and i agree but i personally like wukong jungle a lot more.
ReplyDeleteI want to say that the only god tiers are amumu,maokai and kha zix because rammus is too team reliant(can work even vs double ap but doesn't make much sense) while amumu works on everything,just pop w and ult all of them;maokai's ult is insane and we can compare it to a defensive version of amumu and kha zix is just too safer and no one really can counter him(while he doesn't really counters anyone)
just my personal thoughts if you want to argue you perfectly can
in lane she gets bullied so much she will have 20 cs in 30 minutes or she will get outscaled so hard she will regret picking ashe
ReplyDeleteeasy.
ReplyDeletead gods:tristana,lucian(pretty sure)
support gods:tresh,janna,nami(maybe nami doesn't belongs here)
jungle gods.lee sin,kha zix,elise(maybe kha doesn't belongs here)
top lane gods:maokai,alistar,nidalee
mid lane gods:don't really know,maybe zed
if brand would have a form of movement he will be op but he has got none so..
ReplyDeleteprepare for the loveful nerf stick
ReplyDeletekatarina always been a monster but people still continue saying"hard cc counters her gne gne gne"without realising that a single tick of her ulti if fed is more than enough to drop squishies's hp bar to half
ReplyDeleteYes every side of the argument works in lower elo.
ReplyDelete@SSJSuntastic pointed out she starts picking up silver; which is a no brainer bec they tend to notice the AD given?
Also i have no idea why is this a Thresh VS janna thread now, i basically mentioned janna could be extremely potent in duo qs and not exactly in solo q due to the disparity of her shield knowledge vs random players.
Now that thats out of the way--
Thresh is more
You don't really need a tier-list for high elo.
ReplyDeleteNoooo all my secret OPs! Kat (well that wasn't much of a secret) Malz, MF, Fiora, Jinx (a lot of people say she isn't that good anymore) Irelia, Rumble. And I did Swain and Lulu top way before they were even mentioned in the LCS this season.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the Maokai's nerf? It seems pretty noticeable but you didn't move him...no feedback ?
ReplyDeleteI have tried so many top lane champions (tryndamere, fiora, wukong, nasus, renekton, teemo, yorick, ryze, darius, morde(plz mid lane only) and a couple others) but I cannot seem to find one who I can dominate both lane and game with. any help would be appreciated (i prefer the assassin type play style).
ReplyDeletealso I have been playing way too much Yi jg, and am looking at Skarner, Elise, and Nocturne. if someone could tell me which one is the most satisfying (lets face it Yi is viable but he's so simple and boring) I would appreciate it
just wondering, who doesn't hard cc counter
ReplyDeleteTry irelia
ReplyDeletemorgana
ReplyDeleteKassadin top is pretty good I think. Tanky AP works well for him. Tier 2 maybe ?
ReplyDeleteI have nothing wrong with where you have placed azir but i do want to make a note here that i play him in a platinum elo and i currently have a 69% winrate with him. Yes, he has a very high skill cap but that doesn't make him the worst mid laner to play. yes i would put him in tier 3 but thats only because of the current list of bugs azir has, if they ever get those fixed i would put him in either tier 1-2.
ReplyDeletewe should wait a korean build,right now people is rushering nashor that doesn't benefit him so much (he'll NEVER use the passive)
ReplyDeleteI think Viktor should be tier 1,but eh tier 2 is better then nothing
ReplyDeletei guess so lol
ReplyDeleteI liked this Tier-List a lot when i was high Gold/Low Plat!
ReplyDeleteWhy cant we do a high Elo-Tierlist?
@NotEnglish
Patch 4.17:
AD GODS: Tristana, Lucian
Support GODS :Thresh, Janna, Zilean
Jungle GODS: Lee sin, Elise
Top GODS: Maokai, Lulu, Ryze, Rumble
Mid GODS: Zed, Orianna, Syndra, Ahri
Tier 1 AD: Cait, Jinx
Tier 1 Support: Braum, Nami, Zilean
Tier 1 Jungle: Kha, Nunu, Jarvan, Vi
Tier 1Top: Renek, Nida, Shyvana
Tier 1 Mid: Twisted Fate/Xerath
My Thoughts....
UrGODS: Urgot
easy to play? To be a useful as yasuo you need to master him. He is by no means easy to play. Lol wtf?
ReplyDeleteVi over maokai anytime
ReplyDeleteI would agree with a Kass top as tier 2. Obviously, it somewhat depends on match-ups so it's not quite strong enough to pick regardless of the situation. Going top it's actually easier to farm since you aren't harassed as much, which lets you get to your power spikes a bit earlier. Plus having TP you can still roam and TP back to lane to make sure you don't lose too much farm. You can also go AD similar to a Nidalee build, but AP Top has been working out fairly well as well. But Kass Top I do think should be on the list somewhere.
ReplyDeleteYou can say the same about every champion...so that was a redundant comment. It goes without saying that you must master a champ to be more effective. That said, Yasuo is on the easier side of the spectrum.
ReplyDeleteIt really isn't THAT big of a nerf in terms of his viability. It hurts his damage in lane, but he's still really good in team fights and still is able to use the shield which is the best part. The few hundred points of damage lost hurts, but it's also not super game changing when there are other people doing 3 times as much damage with just 1 Q.
ReplyDeleteHis "needs higher skill" is an important thing. However, most people start to figure out the toss at a basic level after a couple of games. That said to truly master him takes a bit more time. So if you think of it as somewhere between God and "needs higher skill than usual" than his balance is more or less accurate. But I agree, there should be serious consideration to his ranking as a high skill champion, similar to Vayne as a high skill cap champ.
ReplyDeleteHeim mid is tier-2, heim top deserves tier-1, because in the mid-lane zed's and syndras and xerath, and brands counter him really hard
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which. While I don't think it will happen, I do think that there should be serious considerations to changing the tiers around slightly. Mainly I think tier 3 should be tier 2 and tier 2 should be tier 3. The main reason being, that if a high skill level champ is played by a player with high skill that would technically make the champion better. Which while playing a "viable" champion is okay it doesn't necessarily make them great. So if all champs requires some learning, than I would think that "higher skill cap" would outrank "viable" given the all champs need a learning curve. So from a "time invested into champion to learn their mechanics" standpoint even if it's a higher curve "higher skill cap" champions would seem to have more viability than "viable" champs time investment.
ReplyDeleteAs an example, Jungle Eve (tier 3) is more rewarding from a time investment standpoint to spend time on than say Jungle Mundo (tier 2). Not that Mundo is bad, but as simply a viable champion they might not necessarily cause a huge impact on games. Learning how to Eve though if you invest a few games, CAN cause a huge impact on games. Therefore, I feel that a high skill champ would actually be considered a better champ than a viable champ. Though if you're only going to play a couple of games than obviously the lesser skill ceiling applies. However, if you're using the tiers to pick up a champion to move you through ranks at each position than learning a high skill champion can be very rewarding.
I found Yasuo easier than Yi to play efficiently (Yi is the easiest assassin supposedly), all the champs only take like a week to play efficiently, and anyone can do it.
ReplyDeletestep 1. research the champion
step 2. watch players from all ranks play the champion so you know how to efficiently play them at your rank
step 3. a bots game to get used to them
step 4. play them in normals 10-15 times
step 5. if you feel comfortable play them in ranked
step 6. feed
RIP Vi
ReplyDeleteVel'Koz supp COME NABOS
ReplyDeleteWhy do your think vel'koz supp is better than thresh and braum? Its for a friend :D
ReplyDeleteTons of burst, Insane high base damage
ReplyDeleteHow?
ReplyDeleteHe's good against a lot champs top currently, personally maxing Q is the best I think for poking melee champs and for the shield against AP. Quite a good pick IMO
ReplyDeleteI don't think Azir should be Tier 4 at all, he's got insane damage, range, and decent utility (or amazing, depends how you look at it), he's just slightly harder to play than most champions.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Tier Viktor for sure. 1000 Damage Q auto OP
ReplyDeleteHe is just a bad Heimer like Diana is a bad Akali
ReplyDeleteI completely disagree that Azir is tier 4, he offers INSANE damage in the late game being able to 100-50 a backliner with two attacks from his soldiers, his tower provides great pressure when sieging, he has a decent escape and on top of that he pushes quite hard with his W being on a 6 second cooldown at max rank with 40% CDR, which Azir also will always have due to the nature of the attack speed he gets from it.
ReplyDeleteI must insist that you reconsider his position, I know that he might have a low winrate as it stands at the moment, but you put Vel'Koz in God tier just out of a suspicion that he would be a god, which he wasnt really, he was tier 1 at best.
He isn't like Heimer, they only share a similarity in that they have minions that do things for them. Heimer just kinda sits in his turrets and waits for them to get low enough to rocket them. Azir can go all in and a better team fight presence, and arguably more utility/damage.
ReplyDeleteWAS THIS SHIT MADE BY A FUCKING BRONZE?
ReplyDelete@vaynelove Snare and stun are hard cc.
ReplyDelete@not english if kata is god tier it's perfect beating a god tier with a tier 4 like Urgot. Yes, Urgot counters kata and if not babysitted kata is like afk farming until mid game. I've never lost vs a kata yet with urgot (even vs fizz and the other ad assassin). That's why i don't think urgot deserve tier 4, maybe tier 3 for top and mid lane. Adc with the meta is not ok and why isn't menzioned as jungler? I remember when back in season 3 some proes used him there and at the first gank he got a double :) he's too much underestimated.
I think Jarvan should be god tier jungle. Nobody is as good at J4 as DanDy is, but Jarvans tend to win. He falls behind Amumu and Rammus late game but early to late-mid, he's god.
ReplyDeleteOr, as you should do in a janna lane, just farm the s*** into lategame. Janna's god because Trist, Jinx and Lucian are god. in the meta of hyper late game adcs, Janna synergizes best with them. Janna = no engage, all disengage, all peel and protect. You don't get kills with Janna in lane, you farm up, and then you teamfight.
ReplyDeleteDiana > Akali imo
ReplyDeletei guess i am trying irelia
ReplyDeleteI knew it couldn't just be me, I've played nidalee about 8 times since the update. I've only won about 2/3 of those times, before I would have about a 60% winrate.
ReplyDeleteNow that her ad scaling is reduced and they're trying to bring back AP Nid, they should buff her javelin at least (if not damage-wise, at least its speed). It takes way too many all ins to get a kill now and if you build her ap, she cant AA harass and her javelin still doesn't do much damage until late game when you're at full build.. her early game AND late game is now inherently bad unless fed.
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ReplyDelete1.if you have HIV
2.if you don't have kids for your life
or any order problem please contact her she will help you
2/3 is 66%. lmao
ReplyDeleteElise is extremely fun, but takes a while to get warmed up. Haven't done Skarner, but Nocturne can potentially be a very fun pick, his Ult defines him as it allows for some timing mixups with the insane gap closer. Top lane Swain is a blast as well.
ReplyDelete2-3 out of 8 is not 60%
ReplyDeleteI think Mordekaiser's position for toplane should be reconsidered or explained. He has decent poke, great 1v1 with his ult and his passive gives him survivability and extra hitpoints in order to win trades. I think in the new toplane meta, an emergence of him is not only possible, but also reasonably strong.
ReplyDeleteYah i see a lot of bad elises but shes my go to for jungle thanks for your feedback
ReplyDeleteassassin top would be pan, akali, nid (skill needed), rengar and wu kong.... just build them glass cannon and rape by one and one....
ReplyDeleteThis is basically what most bot lanes thinks, but if you've seen recent matches, janna works bec they switch lane and got to at least lvl3 before swapping or roaming to dominate.
ReplyDeleteIf you start out bad in a janna lane (no swap, first blood, no harrass), even a nami can wreck your lane with a fq item and you'll only fall behind and get shit on regardless of your god tier status of disengage.
Also your logic on her having no engage is just lol-worthy. Yes, low kill potential but her flash R ie; can displace people and auto win team fights.
Charge q > flash R > push to tornado, w , shield whoever
is a potent example.
He has zero gap closer and zero CC. Not even a slow. Getting away from Mordekaiser or even ganking him might be the easiest thing in the world if he doesn't have a summoner. In a lane so reliant on self perseverance he lacks the most important tool of them all. Lane sustainability isn't everything.
ReplyDeletehe gets kited and is reliant on items to do well. He is decent for low elo mid because he can farm easy andd farming in low elo is the easiest way to climb. but for top he will get out traded by anyone who can stick to him and sustain early
ReplyDeleteAzir is too clunky and hard to use well for low elo. He suffers the cass problem that he is really weak before items and alot of people think nashors and stuff are good on him and waste gold on useless stats. His base atk speed is TOO LOW to make atk speed items useful
ReplyDeletelol no.
ReplyDeleteHes too hard to use at low elo. He is very clunky. Has really really bad base stats and item routes. His damage is not insane. Compare his damage to a ziggs, ori, lux, ahri. Yeah suddenly not that great. And everyone i named he loses lane to. Though hes decent vs melle mids.
ReplyDeleteThis is low elo. people cant play thresh well. Braum has been nerffed hard and isnt as easy to play as you think. Velkoz allows you to do alot of damage in lane and carry a lane by yourself. Braum needs help to carry and thresh is hard to use and isnt what he was
ReplyDeleteif you camp him early he gets destroyed
ReplyDeleteWhats your IGN? How many games for that winrate? Hes ok but honestly either youre really good with him or youre getting lucky because hes really really weak.
ReplyDeletehis damage wasnt what made him op.
ReplyDelete2/3 denotes two thirds.... which is 67%. I am sure most people thought the same as Dingus Khan
ReplyDeleteAlso, 0 utility besides good damage
ReplyDeleteOh no the kata nerfs are coming..
ReplyDeletebut if you read the posters comments it would make obvious sense he meant 2 or 3 of 8 games, since 8 is not divisible by 3 nor would it make sense for a person using fractions to state a percentage in same sentence.
ReplyDeleteVelKoz has great damage with his ulti, which is deadly in narrow places (like jungle). Somehow it feels like Lux's ulti blended with MissFortune's ulti.
ReplyDeleteAnd he has long range pokes with short cooldowns, which is a bit harder to dodge compared to Lux/Brand/Lulu pokes.
So he can do well in laning phase against short-range supports (Braum, Malphite, Alistar, ...) . And in team fight his presence is pretty good due to the ultimate: can either open combat (initiative) or cleanup.
Perhaps people will do better against his kit when VK becomes more popular. But if they under-estimate him, VK support can get more kills than the AD !
Lissandra, she counters most current top meta, counters melee champs, you can make big plays. Great roam, if you prefer assassin type style, you can go DFG and do go in/go out.. due to her E, she got what i call "mini ganks" which means when you get into teamfight delayed, they wont see you comming, you just appear and... ult, yes, dat ult and her kit with massive sustained cc is what makes her able to win not only the lane but the games too. She can initiate fights too,pretty well. Specialy with zhonya that gives you cca 5 sec immortality combined with ult. Frozen heart is pretty strong too on her, but situational.
ReplyDeleteTOO MUCH BUGS
ReplyDeletediana is stronger earlier cause her shield but for every levels you pass she start to dop off hard
ReplyDeleteThoughts on Top Lane Kayle?
ReplyDeleteBased Rito please buff Ezreal.
ReplyDeleteHe just came out, if youve played under 20-25 games as him your win rate hasnt been solidified yet, although 69% is impressive.
ReplyDeletesomeone is trying to say his opinion about the nidalee's change and people troll him with "wannabe math teacher's comments"
ReplyDeleteok but he can act as a lane bully and some mordekaisers take exhaust and flash for turns ganks to double kill
ReplyDeletetier 2 is fine imho
prepare youselves
ReplyDeletelol people didn't even know that they can click on lantern
ReplyDeleteweak,instabursted by everyone and not worth try to reach level 16 cause ryze and vlad will do better
ReplyDeletethey should,he's weak in this meta
ReplyDeletetried new garen and he's a very good splitpusher,also he counters reset all ins (like katarina,tristana,kha zix ecc...)cause if silenced you cannot run away again,tier 2 is a good place now
ReplyDeleteviktor tier 1,he's good now and he gots the missing touch he needed
It's always nice to learn Riven top, great pick especially against pre-6 Nasus
ReplyDeleteOK Aaron, slow your roll just a bit here and make sure you're reading the information about the list. This is for mainly Bronze to Gold level. That's a really key point especially for some of the arguments you're making here.
ReplyDeleteLee Sin - since the nerfs he's not nearly as powerful and he's got a pretty high skill floor to be played optimally. Most people in Bronze to Gold don't have the ability to ward hop, flash, ult like the pros. His Q is also a skill shot, and despite most bronzies retreating in a straight line, I'd say it's still 50/50 that bronze Lee Sin lands the Q.
Vel'Koz we've all argued about on here, but there's no denying that his damage is through the roof. We've all made pretty clear points around Thresh and how his damage is non-existent any longer and his utility is kind of diminished by the whole lack of team coordination and situational awareness that you'll see in lower tiers.
Warwick has fast clears, good damage while building tanky for the most part and once you are level 6 his ganks pretty much guarantee a kill unless he engages while his team is almost dead or OOM.
She's pretty balanced. The nerf to her E hurt her power a lot. Still, she's got no skillshots, a nice ult for whoever initiates, and some burst. Situational pick.
ReplyDeleteThe day low ELO can learn the following, he'll be a god:
ReplyDelete1. See the pretty lantern? Click it
2. How to land a hook
3. how to use flay responsibly
I think he is one of the best splitpushers up there with nasus, and teemo, and more.
ReplyDeleteRemember this a solo queue tier list and ww is a god in solo queue. I can't argue for the lee sin tho he should be at least in tier 1 :/
ReplyDeleteWhich of the following champs would you blind pick in low elo top lane, with the best chance at winning the game, and for what reason/reasons... Ren, Kayle, Nasus, Shyvana, Jax, or Aatrox.
ReplyDeleteI disagree, he has a really high skill cap, and his winrate never peaks above 50% until you get to challenger. If you want to play an amazing jg who is easy, go ww, amumu, easier champions to play with lots of reward.
ReplyDeletetresh's damage is high in laning phase when you can herass with E's enhanched aa
ReplyDeletetell me pls why did i have to spend 1/2 months trying to play lee sin decently while i can pick maokai,amumu or kha zix and carry me starting from the first game?
ReplyDeletewhen ww ult someone he's dead in low elo,even tristana late game should fear a ww with ult up
ReplyDeleteNasus is the one I have most trouble against, so I would say he is likely the most viable option
ReplyDeleteI agree with that but if that's the case why isn't he in tier 3 since he easily has a high skill cap and requires more knowledge than usual (in terms of getting a kill and translating it into game dominance as we know lee can)
ReplyDeleteRushering?
ReplyDeleteOut of those ones nasus for sure. The rest, are weak atm, except kayle is ok. But nasus is amazing since it isn't too hard to farm up ur q and win late game.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with the nashor tooth build since the item is still 117% gold efficient without the passive. Plus you end up getting more from your gold since cdr gives you attack speed. also what kind of gamer are you "wait for a korean build" screw that, take the bull by the horns. Don't be afraid to make a mistake.
ReplyDeleteIt's mostly because of how much competitive play he sees. I'd argue he's tier 3 for solo queu, and his win rate is similar in all elos, meaning he isn't as great in solo queu as in competitive play
ReplyDeleteor just naturally a weak champion.
ReplyDeleteno ult still op, but shes balance overall imo.
ReplyDeleteYea definitely if we were talking about 5v5 this tier list would be very different. In competitive play he's mostly a pick or ban (ala shook)
ReplyDeleteSeriously, talon higher than wukong when he doesn't have a silence anymore. That was basicly the only thing he had over wukong. Wukong had lower mana costs, much better early game, similar roaming potential, a knockup, and much better team fighting potential, I'd say more important than a silence anyday. Also wukong is better than katarina because much stronger laning phase and the ability to do a stealthed engage, aoe knockup, and not removed from the fight with 1 cc, while katarina has resets, flash like escape, and no mana costs. Katarina is very good but mostly by high elo skilled players. I see faker, etc do amazing katarina plays, but every time I see one they flop, since reset mechanics take a lot of skill. Wukong is just much easier to play than those champs, and will carry you in solo queu harder, because those champs just take much more skill to carry effectively with.
ReplyDeleteRammus...
ReplyDeleteConsidering how this is Blind Pick, Renekton.
ReplyDelete1. He has very little range of counterpicks, therefore very safe in blind pick (it's unusual for ppl to pick Pantheon, Garen, or Kayle top right now... only thing that's pretty common as of late is Ryze top, but even so it's still rare). Even when Renekton DOES get counterpicked, he still is one hard muthafuckah to dominate.
2. Great pusher. Current meta revolves around roaming, so either you have to counter roam, or be really good at pushing so your opponent doesn't have a chance to roam. and Renekton is the latter.
3. One of the strongest early level damage, if not the best. First Blood doesn't get easier than Renekton.
4. getting ganked? bait them into the bush and ult (make sure you ult out of sight and charge up your fury). Easiest Double kill. Otherwise you can also enjoy your double-dash to run away like a pussy.
5. Ahead? get a Hydra. Behind? Straight tank. either way, you contribute to teamfights.
DRAAAAAAAAVEEEN!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but this is a horribly made tier list and as a support main I don't think you have a clue about supports in this meta. You have Vel Koz in Tier 1 and Blitz/Leo in God Tier yet Thresh/Braum is in Tier 2. First off Vel Koz is not even viable as he brings nothing to the team due to the fact he is focused on damage and would need his own peel(which wouldn't work because there are other more important lanes to people for especially since that's the supports job) Second off Blitz/Leo you have in God Tier yet both of them are extremely situational picks. Plus in all honesty Blitz is not that good of a champion to begin with. Next off you placed the two easiest/best champions to help carry a team with (Braum/Thresh) in a tier that has Taric and Xerath in it... And just looking at the other roles is also embarrassing for example the mid lane tier gods XD
ReplyDeleteAs a support main I believe I have a clue about supports in this meta and respectfully disagree with your opinions.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Vel'koz for one, you contradict yourself in multiple ways, for instance if there are more important lanes to peel for, then why would Vel'koz need peel? If he stands away from the ones that the enemy team is gunning for then obviously one of them is not getting attacked.
Blitz and Leo are hardly situational picks and while you might feel pressured in lane depending on how you do early game, even if you're getting pushed to your turret the moment the jungler comes suddenly you're a superstar. Also, with the way that targons works now (even Threshes are building it) the sustain and active that it offers synergizes so incredibly well with both Leona and Blitz that it basically gives you an all-in lane with built-in sustain.
Also as a support main I agree that Blitzcrank is not that good a support...when you know how to lane against him as a support main. However, even if Blitzcrank loses lane horribly his utility remains extremely high and can snowball game from a losing position as long as the other lanes aren't doing horribly.
Braum and Thresh are so deeply ingrained in the sheep mentality that for someone who wakes up in a cold sweat remembering their strength pre-nerf, there's nothing I can do to dissuade you. However, I can confidently say that they've been nerfed to the point that anybody pre-platinum would be better off never picking them.
Hey! Say what you will, but keep my beloved Taric out of that filthy filthy mouth of yours. I don't want to tell you what happened to the last guy that talked smack about Taric...lets just say he's in a basement somewhere. Stunned. Permanently.
ReplyDeleteNUUUUUUUTS
ReplyDelete