NERFPLZ.LOL Ahri - The Success of a "High Skillcap Champion" in "Low" Elo | NERFPLZ.LOL -->




Oct 10, 2014

Ahri - The Success of a "High Skillcap Champion" in "Low" Elo

31 comments

A lot of people have questioned the case for Ahri for God Tier, especially as the solo queue tier list takes into factor "ease of play", which translates into "consistency" and in turn transitions into "success in solo queue".

In regards to overall strength, here are some pros:
  • Strong AOE burst
  • Great gapcloser + escape combination
  • Strong 1v1 and 5v5 damage
  • Good sustain and waveclear in lane
  • Currently has damage in line or higher than most other AP mids
Riot's given Ahri a couple small buffs here and there that have increased her waveclear potential, and also nerfed a lot of her counters. But on the "con" side, the strongest argument remains that her kit itself, being skill intensive, isn't good for "lower" Elos.

However, while it's true that Ahri has a somewhat higher skill champions than others out there to use to their fullest potential, let's take a look at what happens in two basic scenarios:

Scenario 1: Ahri throws a skillshot in an open path

Skillshots by nature, require skill. However, the following phrases are commonly seen:
  • Ahri why can't you hit any skillshots?
  • XXX how is it you get hit by every skillshot?
  • [email protected]#! how did you ALL get hit by Ahri's Q at the same time?
Here's how it actually breaks down:
  1. Ahri throws her skillshot;
  2. Enemy champion either moves or doesn't move; and
  3. Enemy champion gets hit or dodges the skillshot.
That's really all there is to it. As you move up on the ladder, except for using a summoner spell, hitting and dodging will change proportionally. In regards to a single champion in a 1v1 matchup, this holds true across all Elos. There's no magic level where two evenly matched players will never get hit by charm or always hit charm.

Of course this could also go down:
  1. Ahri throws charm
  2. Enemy champion moves as close to charm as possible after he sees it go off
  3. Ahri still misses charm
However, I'd like to think that this happens less often than you'd believe, especially since it's a straight line with a guide that shows the path.

Scenario 2: Ahri throws a skillshot in a narrow path

You can probably guess what happens here, but I'll quickly mention it.

With terrain blocking a champions movement, all Ahri has to do is fire off a spell in the general vicinity of the champion group and she'll likely hit *someone*. 

She also has the added benefit of avoiding losing champions into fog of war since all her spells penetrate through objects and fog. This combined with the fact that her return Q deals true damage means that even at high ping, late game "skill" plays a relatively low factor in many jungle fights for her. I mean just take a look at Reginald below:


Even though this is from a different patch with different damage ratios (her charm is now more important), you can see how in practice it could play out similarly in regards to landing her Q in a big teamfight, although Regi clearly shows it's still possible to miss charm by firing off in wrong directions.

Conclusions

As you reach higher and higher in the ranked ladder, certain things will have to be executed better in order to keep up with the rest of champions. However, I can say with fair certainty that right now Ahri is definitely a very strong champion at low Elo, high Elo, and almost everywhere in between.

While her skillshots need to be executed in order to reach her fullest potential, the difficulty of her play and the amount of benefit you receive at each level are very rewarding at the moment. 




First time to Nerfplz.Lol or not sure where to find everything? Try the Site Map





31 comments:

  1. wukong onlyOctober 10, 2014

    Couldn't have made a better explanation. Good job on this post ssj:).

    ReplyDelete
  2. SSJSuntasticOctober 10, 2014

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  3. I was wondering why Ahri is suddenly God tier. Thanks for the explanation.

    ReplyDelete
  4. rainy1314emily .October 11, 2014

    So in a TL;DR sense @SSJSuntastic J, I'm guessing you're saying that Ahri is now God Tier because at every level of elo whereby skills are concerned, Ahri is currently strong. Her strength not only comes from champion nerfs/buffs, but also partially because of the skills it takes for players to execute on different level of elo.

    What this means is that, different level of elo demands different level of execution and Ahri happens to fulfill all levels of execution? Or is this just a detailed post of mentioning how Ahri is dealing very solid damage. But from what I understand..

    You're saying that Ahri is God Tier because at low Elo, she lands solid damage even if she misses certain skillshots. However, at higher Elo, where experienced players dominate, Ahri shines through the display of experienced gameplay made by players.

    What this also means is that, as long you do a thing or two right with Ahri, you'll definitely dominate with her. Is that what you're saying? If not, please explain in a much more layman term.

    Also, care to comment on her strength at the moment? Do you foresee any nerfs to Ahri once more?

    ReplyDelete
  5. BonafideBarnabusOctober 11, 2014

    Ahri doesnt take that much skill to be honest

    ReplyDelete
  6. SSJSuntasticOctober 11, 2014

    Correct on all counts, her kit has always been "good" when played at its fullest, but right now her numbers are lined up in a way that makes her "strong enough" in a way that's proportional to what each respective Elo demands from other champions, even at Bronze.

    ReplyDelete
  7. rainy1314emily .October 11, 2014

    Even after new champion with better kits come out, say for example Yasuo, is Ahri still considered a champion with the best kit? I know when she was first released, literally everyone commented that Ahri had the best of all AP Mids in her kit. I wonder if that has changed now following new champion releases and much more improved kits on every new champion released.


    How would you define good when her kit is played to its fullest? Are we talking about just damage wise, or an overall (and that would be..?). And how do you define "played to the fullest". I'm curious to know, can you explain? @SSJSuntastic


    Does this mean Ahri is strong though? Or she is only strong because of the cyclical change to mid laners? Or it is the fact her kit makes her so good that no matter how many times Riot plans to nerf her, she will always be good in the hands of an experienced player.

    ReplyDelete
  8. SSJSuntasticOctober 11, 2014

    There are definitely champions out there with similarly strong utility in their kits, Yasuo being one of them.


    Playing a champion to the fullest means dodging big spells that can reasonably be dodged with your ult (like Malphite ult), only using your charm when you know it's going to hit (unless they flash or use a spell) , and using your Q to actually do damage and not just "zone".


    Ahri's strong for a variety of reasons, currently mostly because of the cyclical changes (other champions don't offer as much easy power). However, similar to other champions like Kassadin, Akali, or Jayce, even if their damage is nerfed they'll eventaully cycle around just based on utility and snowballing power.


    Meanwhile, that's why although also strong in the current meta, champions like Malzahar and Brand don't cycle around in popularity as fast since they're perceived as "lacking" outplay potential.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Great article once again SSJSuntastic. I'm a big fan of your website. You have done a great thing with it!!

    ReplyDelete
  10. SSJSuntasticOctober 11, 2014

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  11. the main problem with versing an ahri(I think) is that she is not only a high damage mage but she also is very high mobility. so in lane she can be very aggressive and with one charm get her whole combo off, without you doing anything about it. And then it is almost impossible to catch up to her when chasing because of her three ult charges, and possibly a flash. Riot definitely has to do something about this. P.s. great article, big fan

    ReplyDelete
  12. csb, great input for a fantastic article. We are all sooo jealous

    ReplyDelete
  13. Ahri's Q is barely a skillshot. The only thing that she has to aim is her charm, which is a relatively fast projectile.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Josh ThurlowOctober 13, 2014

    And decent sustain on top of that.

    ReplyDelete
  15. yeah her passive(I think) really makes it hard to do well against her

    ReplyDelete
  16. Another Great article, links on reddit?

    ReplyDelete
  17. I highly doubt the arguments here. I read the article and bought this champion. After trying her for a whole week, I still keep feeding. I don't think I am that bad at adaption. I picked up Lulu, Swain, Fiddle, Morgana easily (not to mention Ryze, Annie etc.), and they are all much more intuitive and useful throughout the game. I main mid mages and play in low in low elo normal. Putting her as God tier is not appropriate as you clearly need "more" skills to make her viable and useful to feel that you have outplayed your opponents.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Basically, my view is that Ahri is a skill-shot based burst mage/assassin that can only shine if you outplay your opponents. She is not relevant enough if both sides have similar level of "execution". Overall, she needs to take too much more risk or level of "execution" while gaining limited rewards. You can influence the game much more easily with a much safer pick like Ryze, or Swain and more others. The risk/reward benefit seems not to hold, at least for low elo games that I have been playing in.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I am not claiming that you're subpar or anything of the nature. However.. ever since I picked her up I've won mid, over and over and over again. Annie however is a counter to ahri and overall brings more to a team fight and ryze is also one of her hardest counters. So those two comparisons are a bit unfair. However Swain's biggest influence is a skillshot snare. Fiddlesticks is also very strong, but he needs to get too close and will get bursted down by an ahri.

    If both sides have the same level of execution, ahri still has the ability to kill whoeever she wants on an enemy team outside of tanks and get out because of her three dashes + flash. I feel that you just simply may be playing her incorrectly given your reasonings of why she may not be god tier is all I'm saying.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I think maybe you are right. I need more practice. I have had over 20 3v3 bot games, but my 3 normal games with Ahri were all against level 30 mid laners. I am at level 23 right now. But since I also just bought Orianna, I just have more love in Ori... Just feel more familiar with the mage feeling. I hope eventually I can master all mages, including the mage/assassin stereotype.

    ReplyDelete
  21. http://lolfreerp.com/ - Check out this page with free RP codes :) Only three steps in 5 mins and you will get your code free!! VISIT, DOWNLOAD AND ENJOY BETTER GAME!

    ReplyDelete
  22. I don't know man, I got plat this season and I have played a lot of Ahri, but my best mids are Kat and Morgana both of which I had 55% win rate or greater. Ahri I had a 33% win rate and a good kill death ratio considering I lost that much (it was above a 2.0 KDA and more kills than deaths). I just stopped playing her I don't feel she is very usable at all and it's not like I'm a bad player with her I usually just end up not being able to make a big enough impact to turn the game around even if I get mid and bot ahead. She has to sacrifice all her safety to do damage with her ult which in team fight scenarios is the death of her. The other option is to only use her ult to kite but then half the time it won't even do damage to who you are kiting because the range is so pitifully short. She has epic mana problems, and really her wave clear and ability to create picks with charm are about the only two things going for her. The safety of her ult is negated by the fact you have to get close to do damage and the other team if they are at all wise will stick together and all in you making creating picks with charm all but impossible as it is out ranged by many spells and if you want to follow up with enough damage to make a kill you negate all safety and if you don't do enough damage you won't make an impact in the teamfight till too late as your rotations are down.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Danie KanewskeNovember 29, 2014

    Ahri is listed as tier 1 not god teir. Is this a typo?

    ReplyDelete
  24. This post is older than the new 4.20 tier list.

    ReplyDelete
  25. As an Ahri main, I totally disagree with everything bad people say about Ahri. Ahri is one of the best mid laners IMO. If you know how to play her to perfection, you can easily outplay champs that are supposed to counter you. She can also 2v1 if you know how to play her. I just think people don't understand that she is all out offensive. I see so many people who either build her wrong or max E first because they are so craptastic at hitting their Q. I think the problem is that so many people don't see Ahri's who are good (after all, she is a high skillcap champ) and so they think the champ itself is crappy. I just think most people like to play the easy champs that require little to no skill.

    ReplyDelete
  26. anthony abadiaJanuary 14, 2015

    I'm salty lol, you kicked ahri out of god tier.
    Also Riot's removing dfg in patch 5.2, where would that put ahri? (unless they buff her ability scalings?)

    ReplyDelete
  27. Lunar KarmaJanuary 14, 2015

    They stated that Ahri and Veigar would be the first to get adjusted to DFGs removal.

    ReplyDelete
  28. anthony abadiaJanuary 14, 2015

    :D :D :D ;D (inb4 riot changes charm to 40% amp LOL)

    ReplyDelete
  29. You know what i am really tired of riot i really am. I am a diamond 1 ex ahri main. i mained ahri even since she came out. after her season 3 nerfs i still mained her at diamond elo. then i am like why even bother i have 1400 games on ahri and she is garbage. i spent 1400 games on ahri and most zed mains that have spent 100-200 games on zed look better then i do. i am not a bad player i am diamond ;have 4 smerfs in diamond and one Korean diamond account.the only REASON SHE WAS NERFED WAS BECAUSE OF DFG IF U REMOVE DFG PLEASE RESTORE HER TO HER ORIGINAL STATE BECAUSE MAGE AHRI WAS NO OP IT WAS BALANCED. PLEASE RIOT I AM BEGGING FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE DO SOMETHING RIGHT RESTORE TO HER STATE IN SEASON 3. JUST FUCKING DO IT NO MATTER IF U SHIFT HER AP RATIOS AS LONG AS SHE IS RELIANT ON HITTING A EASY TO DODGE SKILL SHOTS SHE WILL NEVER BE GOOD. NOW YOUR GONNA SAY OH SHE WAS PICKED IN LCS THE ONLY REASON SHE WAS PICKED BECAUSE ALL OTHER CHAMPS WERE BANNED OUT NOT CAUSE SHE IS VIABLE. SHE IS ONLY PICKED CAUSAE OF HER DFG ABUSE COMBO. WHEN RIOT NERFED HER IN SEASON 3 THEY FORCED HER TO BUILD DFG WHICH WAS WHY SHE GOT NERFED LIKE I DONT UNDERSTAND. PLEASE I AM A DIAMOND ONE PLAYER RESPOND BLEOW RIOT I WILL FUCKING HELP YOU BALANCE AHRI. PLEASE DONT TRY TO SHIFT HER AP RATIOS ON HER Q JUST REMOVE HER RELIANCE ON HITTING E. AND BEFORE YOU GUYS SAY OH YOUR A EX AHRI MAIN UR GOING TO BE BIASED. STFU A LONG TIME DEVELOPING THIS THEORY EVER SINCE SHE GOT NERFED

    ReplyDelete
  30. well they "adjusted" her well.....

    ReplyDelete

Feel free to comment or leave a message :)