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SEASON 4 - PATCH 4.11 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
SEASON 4 UPDATE
SEASON 4 UPDATE
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
Hey everyone, sorry for the delay in getting the last tier list up, tons of real life stuff going on in the past few weeks. To make up for that, I'm releasing a tentative 4.11 tier list update that incorporates the 4.10 changes as well as a couple minor moves around based on the 4.11 changes (will likely adjust as the week goes on.)
Patch 4.11 Summary
Buffs: Nautilus, Nidalee, Vladimir, Zac
Nerfs: Braum, Jax, Kayle, Skarner, Yasuo, Ziggs
Tweaks: Maokai
- Added Top lane Lulu
- Added a FOTM Tier List
- 7/4: Moved Wukong up, Trundle down
- 7/5: Moved Zyra up, Leona down, Moved Maokai to god tier
- 7/7:
- Top: Warwick/Rumble moved up; Jax moved down;
- Jungle: Rammus/Maokai/Sejuani moved up; Skarner/Jax moved down;
- Mid: Kassadin/Kayle moved down; Katarina/Swain up
- 7/8:
- Top: Renekton moved back to Tier 1: Youmuu OP; Nidalee moved up; Jax moved down
- Mid: All moved down to Tier 1
- AD: Twitch/Tristana moved up; Ezreal moved down
- 7/9:
- Added support Xerath; moved support Vel'koz up
- 7/10:
- Malzahar moved up;
- Top: Lulu moved up; Kayle moved down
- 7/11:
- Support Malphite/Nautilus moved up; Support Nunu/Teemo moved down;
- Ziggs moved up; Akali moved up
- 7/14:
- Top lane Grag moved to Tier 1: Pretty good as a bruiser, mid lane AP seems to still be underpowered atm
- Top lane Swain moved up as well
Use CTRL + F to Search For Champions
God Tier [Exceptionally Strong Choices]:
Mid-Lane Gods: Ziggs
Jungle Gods: Amumu, Rammus, Maokai, Warwick, Wukong, Jarvan IV, Vi
AD Gods: Tristana, Kog'Maw, Jinx, Miss Fortune, Lucian
Top Lane Gods: Warwick, Fiora, Wukong
Support Gods: Morgana, Braum, Zyra
Tier 1 [Strong/Preferred Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Swain, Katarina, Kassadin, Malzahar, Orianna, Kayle, Zyra, Talon, Heimerdinger, Lulu (AP), Galio, Karma, Lux, Yasuo, Anivia, Morgana, Cassiopeia, Ahri, Brand, Syndra, Pantheon, Diana, Fizz, Wukong
Jungle: Skarner, Fiddlesticks, Sejuani, Evelynn, Xin Zhao, Volibear, Udyr, Lee Sin, Pantheon, Rengar, Aatrox,
AD Carry: Draven, Caitlyn, Graves, Varus, Ashe, Sivir
Top Lane: Rumble, Lulu, Renekton, Jax, Nasus, Swain, Gragas, Trundle, Ryze, Nidalee, Malphite, Jarvan IV, Rengar, Irelia, Tryndamere, Darius, Shyvana, Singed, Lee Sin, Heimerdinger, Yasuo, Pantheon, Teemo, Aatrox, Yorick, Kennen, Elise, Udyr, Volibear, Karma,
Support: Thresh, Leona, Nami, Sona, Karma, Lulu, Janna, Taric, Blitzcrank
Tier 2 [Viable/Balanced Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Twisted Fate, Akali, Viktor, Zed, Fiora, Annie, Kennen, Mordekaiser, Xerath, Vladimir, Vel'Koz, Teemo, Elise, Lissandra, Sion, Ryze, Jayce,
Jungle: Nautilus, Kayle, Jax, Nocturne, Shaco, Elise, Master Yi, Tryndamere, Olaf, Zac, Dr. Mundo, Nasus, Shyvana, Leona, Trundle, Malphite, Gragas, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Corki, Ezreal, Vayne, Twitch, Quinn
Top Lane: Riven, Kayle, Cho'gath, Vladimir, Olaf, Xin Zhao, Viktor, Poppy, Akali, Quinn, Vi, Dr. Mundo, Jayce, Lissandra, Zed
Support: Xerath, Annie, Fiddlesticks, Vel'Koz, Alistar, Gragas
Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
Mid-Lane: Gragas, Karthus, Veigar, Leblanc, Nidalee (AP), Kha'Zix, Riven, Tristana, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks
Jungle: Hecarim, Kha'Zix, Nunu, Cho'Gath, Shen, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Riven, Poppy, Darius,
AD Carry: Twisted Fate, Kennen
Top Lane: Shen, Garen, Kha'Zix, Master Yi, Gangplank, Zac, Alistar, Mordekaiser, Sion, Vayne, Talon, Soraka, Nunu, Galio
Support: Volibear, Nautilus, Lux, Nunu, Kayle, Soraka, Teemo, Zilean, Maokai, Malphite, Anivia, Syndra, Veigar, Gangplank
Tier 4 [Low Effort to Benefit Ratios]:
Mid-Lane: Kog'maw, Zilean, Ezreal (AP), Soraka, Janna
Jungle: Gangplank, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry: Urgot
Top Lane: Urgot
Support: Nidalee, Orianna, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Shen, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc, Caitlyn
Instructions and Caveats:
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
- This tier list takes data from ALL players; however, since the majority of players fall in the first three tiers, the majority of data points will come from there.
- Win Rates are important in analyzing each champion's strength, but are not the end-all criteria for any champion's position.
- The creator of this list is diamond, so there may be some personal bias towards higher tier play on certain champions.
Champion Explanations
- Braum [God Tier Support] - Despite his double nerf in the past two patches, Braum's overall kit still gives him a very strong presence both in lane and in team fights, balancing him will be tricky but I think Riot is content having everyone play the new champion they designed.
- Caitlyn [Tier 1 AD Carry] - As the most popular champion in the game, it's common to see Caitlyn carry hard in your every day play as she wins 50% of the time. However, despite her status as a very safe, predictable AD carry, her overall impact on the final result of the game appears to be more influenced by how hard the rest of her team can snowball her into a quick end.
- Heimerdinger [Tier 1 Mid] - With a rapidly surging win rate, Heimer is definitely a champion to watch out for. That being said, I think his success is more due to high proficiency by the people playing him rather than purely overall strength.
- Kayle [God Tier Mid] - Despite being nerfed this patch, I think that she'll still be fairly strong. That being said, I'm hard-pressed to decisively pick a champion that's stronger at the moment. Remember back when everyone laughed at Kayle in god tier? Well, 82% ban rate says differently now...
- Kha'Zix [Tier 3 Jungle] - Kha is simply getting mauled at the moment, and the new jungle changes won't exactly favor assassin types either.
- Kog'Maw [God Tier ADC] - The changes from Patch 4.10 have been absolutely astounding on him, and I believe he's probably the strongest AD carry in the game right now. Expect to see a popularity surge real soon, even in solo queue.
- Leblanc [Tier 3 Mid] - The nerf really hit her hard, and being a high skill champion to begin with I don't recommend relying on her anymore.
- Lucian [God Tier ADC] - Despite being nerfed last patch, he's still very strong, especially in solo queue. While he may not be the easiest AD carry to play, he has a lot of utility.
- Nautilus [Tier 2 Jungle] - The buffs on Nautilus may easily carry him to Tier 1. Beware the CC train.
- Nidalee (AP) [Tier 3 Mid] - Patch 4.10 really hit Nidalee hard, and despite some efforts by Riot to bring back some of her strength in 4.11, I think a pure spear-throwing Nidalee will be around Tier 3 at best.
- Nidalee [Tier 1 Top] - Meanwhile, a Iceborn Gauntlet/Trinity Force type Nidalee I think will be very strong this next patch. While the same build could also potentially work mid, it would involve a higher element of surprise to accomplish anything substantial.
- Renekton [Tier 2 Top] - Renekton is suffering heavily from the AD carry buffs. Late game, he used to be a monsterous tank that could simply jump straight into a fight like a real man. Now, he appears to be getting shredded. Expect more high damage top laners with strong gap-closers to outshine him in the upcoming days.
- Rumble [Tier 1 Top] - Rumble's extremely strong right now as more people are itemizing towards armor for defense. He's also basically cycled through as other champions are nerfed. With the latest Jax nerf we could see a serious comeback for him.
- Skarner [God Tier Jungle] - It's no surprise to anyone that Skarner's God Tier now with his new stun. Although nerfed in 4.11, I think he'll still be very strong.
- Twitch [Tier 3 AD Carry] - Twitch basically got mauled in 4.10. He'll definitely need a few upcoming buffs before he's viable again. Sorry Doublelift, but I'll have to respectfully disagree on "Twitch will be the strongest AD carry in 4.10"
- Zac [Tier 3 Top] - Moved Zac down, really more of a late move as nobody really even knows he exists anymore, much less plays him. The latest patch reminded me, but doesn't affect him in lane at all.
For a full analysis on champion changes this patch, check out this link!
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
Here it is ! Thank you for the work my friend ;)
ReplyDeleteoooo Ashe got moved up. Is it because of the 4.10 ADC change or is it something else?
ReplyDeleteThe 4.10 ADC changes have been great to her! Also, a lot more of the CC heavy champions are coming back into play, which means that her ability to synergize with her arrow (as opposed to simply baiting the entire team) is much higher. Nerfs to a lot of assassins also helps as she has low escaping power.
ReplyDeleteTop Lane Lulu shoud be added to the list tier 1 imo
ReplyDeleteAgreed, added
ReplyDeleteNo move up on vayne? :'(
ReplyDeleteIt's because very few know how to play her. Yommus is especially good with her ult. A skilled Vayne is better than any other adc and has pretty much the highest potential out of all ofem too. I think that lower Tier 1 would be fair :p
ReplyDeleteI think you're underrating Xerath!
ReplyDeleteA lot of champs like lee sin, elise, and old leblanc were played because of their potential, but vayne isn't one of them as she isn't seen competetively. If she is so skill reliant and weak to most but still not so strong to the best players she shouldn;t be higher than tier 2. Simply put, too much skill required with the lack of potential. Though since she has an insanely strong late game I don't think she should be lower.
ReplyDeleteI disagree wit darius being tier 1. Not banned, not very common in solo queu or competetive play, low win rate despite being incredibly easy to play, and one of the worst concepts. Also with the adc buffs and randuins nerfs he should be much weaker in the late game where he was already weak and with a lack of escape from ganks and unfavourable matchups in the laning phase, he often gets completely shut down and mauled throughout the entire game. He also lacks tank steroids and is one of the worst tanks in the game. Darius is a very low skill and very low reward champion and statistics clearly aren't in his favor.
ReplyDeletei see that adcs are now rushing ie instead of bt, but is it recommended though?
ReplyDeleteThe new jungle item would probably be a very strong buff for rammus, and his clear time! with his already 54 win percentage, he may be god tier worthy again :)
ReplyDeleteJust wondering, how soon after the update do you think you will release your tier list? Just an estimate.
ReplyDeletebtw, I love these plz continue
this is the tier list
ReplyDeleteThis is the tier list but he'll adjust it along the week
ReplyDeleteSo, I'm risking myself (:D) in a (personal) analysis on your tier list (and if we do consider both 4.10 and 4.11 changes) :
ReplyDeleteConcerning the 1st place of Kog, I agree with you concerning 4-5 premade games, he is an undisputed god right now if you synergize with your mates. But in solo-trio Q, where mobility is key, he often fails to get the required help from teamates to peel and protect him. In this type of game, I would rather place him after the top 5 so I think his place is between the two...
Cait deserve to be at the end of the God tier, because 4.10 wasn't unfavorable to her. Tristana really deserve to be in the top 3 right now, she is a safer pick than Kog in solo-duo and the changes to ADC items were really kind to her.
But I agree that it's maybe not sufficient to place her over Jinx or Lucian...
Concerning Twitch, as I think he deserve to be end of tier 2, the buff of the "youmuu version" of his build offered him a new viability and I strongly believe that he still deserve to be at the end of tier 1 if played with the new youmuu (it's debatable).
About the junglers: the Ancien Golem and machete changes will give a slight boost to all the guys who were rushing Golem and had a moderate clear time. Lee and Vi will probably loose some potential in this battle. Jarv and Amumu will reign (maybe Skarner...will see if the nerf breaks his W%)
Mid: As regard to their Win rate, I think that Malz and Swain deserve to be just after Katarina. I'm not sure about the nerfs of Kayle and Ziggs and it can strongly benefit Kass or Kata...
I think fizz deserve to be waaaay higher, his snowball potential is insane and for me he can take the crown to replace LB era easily...his place is near Mr.Talon.
According to her win rate, Lux place is with Lulu and Heimer.
Top: Fiora will probably be the new n°1 and I predicte a return of Rumble in the top 3. Kayle and Jax will be top 5. Trundle, Nasus and Wukong deserve to be lower in Tier 1. Renekton deserve to be higher, few places after Shyv.
Nice thing you added Lulu now viable top lane, and I would place her near Trynda. Riven should be a bit higher (end tier 1) if she takes few kills early (and it's not a difficult thing to achieve) then she still a real cancer.
Not sure about Vlad behing higher...he is hard countered by tampax® anyway.
Supp: Nami deserve to be just after Thresh and Zyra with Nami. Agreed on Morg-Braum-Leona.
I think Janna is better than Karma now, Karma is just over Taric and Blitz. Gragas, Annie and Fiddle deserve to be at the end of tier 1 (I can't count the number of times I won my lane as a adc because I gained a real advantage thanks to a good agressive fiddle)
I completely agree with all the rest of your tier list, great work as usual :)
My 2 cents
Fr4ntic
Can you move Tryndamere up a bit? Because of the infinity edge buff and BORK passive buff.
ReplyDelete1. Top Lulu is bolded, but there is no explanation.
ReplyDelete2. Yes, Nautilus should definitely move up. CC train indeed.
3. I can't help but feel moving Garen down to T3 is a bit of a stretch.
You should put Xerath support on the list someplace :D
ReplyDeleteTier 4, too squishy, not enough cc. Vel'Koz would be better.
ReplyDeletekog'maw god tier i love you
ReplyDeleteMore seriously - while I do have a lot of respect for you stemming from your placement of Kayle in god-tier well before she became FotM, I'm inclined to disagree that she's still the best. Losing a .2 AP ratio on an ability with a multi-second cooldown isn't necessarily significant, but losing a .2 AP ratio on something used as frequently as an auto attack is very impactful. Like, even ignoring all that Runaan's Hurricane nonsense, a Kayle with nothing but Nashor's Tooth and a full AP/MPen rune/mastery setup is still gonna be auto attacking ~1.2 times per second.
That means you're losing nearly a quarter of your ap in damage every second - with nothing but a three item build of Nashor's, Deathcap and Void Staff, that's about 80 DPS you're losing (and that's not taking into account magic pen). And that's probably the least attack speed a Kayle will ever be seen with - with Runaan's, Zerk Greaves or AS runes/masteries, the effect is even more significant.
At the moment, I think Lulu, Orianna, and Ziggs are more effective waveclear/teamfight mages - Kayle remains an excellent counterpick to ult-reliant assassins, but I don't think she's as useful generally as the other champs I mentioned. Tier 1 imo.
A few other quick points -
I already posted about Renekton in the analysis thingy, but he is emphatically not worse than *Volibear*, *Udyr* and *Kennen*.
Katarina as the 4th best mid is incredibly strange. I'm not sure what to think of that. She's got one of the shittiest laning phases I've ever experienced, and it's not like she scales amazingly well to make up for it.
I think Twitch makes more sense in tier 2. He's a squishy but long range late game teamfighter with a mediocre laning phase. I agree that he's not a very good pick at the moment, but I'm leery of seeing him below Quinn.
More like compare someone who is only a single target assassin hardcountered by zhonyas and qss to one of the best team fighters in the game
ReplyDeleteI'm scared to see how badly rito are going to nerf Lucian.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, Kog'Maw :D
Thoughts on viktor? Gragas top.
ReplyDeleteI believe Kayle is going to be played more as a bruiser type of carry now, building BoRK, trinity force, etc... since both her Q and E scale with AD aswell. I wouldn't say she's getting completely destroyed with the upcoming nerfs, as she still shreds armor and mr extremely well with her passive and her ult is still as obnoxious as ever. But then again, we have to wait and see what will happen this patch.
ReplyDeleteyou're not mentioning the changes to Maokai. Even if he remains in the same tier, its worth mentioning why his ult wouldn't make any difference in his effectiveness. ( I think he'll be moved up, since now he can stay in fights longer)
ReplyDeleteOh, I still think she'll be a top 5 or so solo laner. I just think she was hit sufficiently hard to drop out of 1st place,
ReplyDeleteBotRK would surprise me, given how dependent she is on CDR to maintain a useful auto attack range. Especially with the increase to her ult's CD, it seems like *not* building Nashor's, Athene's etc. would hurt pretty bad.
Yup, also the new exhaust and heal really damaged all-in assassins that are supposed to take out a target quickly and get out, now zed can't even kill an adc with his full combo while exhausted
ReplyDeleteI think Garen should be moved up I think he is still quite strong and is a great tank. He is better than Tier 3 and should be moved up to Tier 1-2. He is a great top laner and good against most top laners
ReplyDeleteHmm true, maybe this nerf will bring back burst kayle with lich bane, as it's probably the only thing not affected by these nerfs.
ReplyDeleteOr some kind of hybrid/ heavyon-hit kayle, with kayle building nashor's, bork, trinity force, runaan's followed defensive items? It sounds weird but it might work
He needs to be removed from there, Feral Flare gave him ability to almost hyper-carry games when it first came out, now that its nerfed to the ground, he is tier 2 at best IMO cuz he has no ganking potential without his ult.
ReplyDeleteI think you might consider Nidalee also as AD, i saw nida AD in top quite a lot lately and i think it is better than tier 3 (just personal opinion)
ReplyDeletelook at tier 1 top and how nid mid is (AP), she is primarily AD now
ReplyDeleteCassio's win rate is rising for some reason, idk y
ReplyDeleteGaren is sorta the stereotype for 'win lane lose game' champions. He's a lane bully that falls off ridiculously hard, and lacks any sort of useful role in teamfights - he doesn't have the mobility to dive the backline, the CC to peel for his own carries, or the damage to function as an offensive threat (without being hilariously squishy). He's also incapable of splitpushing against pretty much every meta top laner.
ReplyDeleteHis current placement seems very reasonable to me.
I completely agree with both of you. I know why he's up there, good win rate at 53% but I think that's just because he's kind of hard to die as early game (you just afk in jungle) thus by not doing bad and feeding early you help your team's chances of winning. Even then I dislike having a WW jungle on my team.
ReplyDeleteTier 3, very similar kit to Gragas and less damage.
ReplyDeleteyea but he is placed tier 1, higher than renekton who is tier 2 and does his job (lane dominance) much better and much more (escape, tank steroid, mobility).
ReplyDeleteThis is true, but you know with top lane, I think it's pretty balanced. For example I don't think there's a huge difference between the entire second half of Tier 1 with the first several champions of Tier 2 for top lane.
ReplyDeleteFizz is too popular and Ziggs out-classes him.
ReplyDeleteHave u seen his damage though, HE FKIN HURTS!
ReplyDeletebut daarius is the easiest champ to kite in the game along with no escapes in the laning phase and many hard counters, sounds tier 3 to me.
ReplyDeletebut he builds tank and garen freaking hurts too
ReplyDeleteGaren's e is Darius's q OVER TIME and has less range, Darius's ult also does more damage than Garen's cuz its true damage and it can be used multiple times.
ReplyDeletejust saying darius should be going down with garen to tier 3 due to being incredibly weak with the new changes to adc and already was bad, Ill agree that darius is slightly better than garen atm though.
ReplyDeleteDarius can pull the adcs too him though.
ReplyDeleteLucians too popular and I don't have him, I'm happy XD.
ReplyDeleteunless ur playing teemo adc the pull doesn't have long enough range, so garen is better in that case and tankier but ill give lane dominance to darius but they are both uselesss late game as being both horrible at peeling while lacking the ability to get to adcs.
ReplyDeleteI liked most of the moves except twitch. He at least has to be higher than quinn
ReplyDeleteDarius isnt horrible at peeling, I mean r u forgetting his w and e, he can also burst down the tank due to his ult.
ReplyDeletethats true, but utility is best for peeling which darius lacks (besides e). darius imo is top tier 3, garen should be approaching tier 4 or bottom tier 3.
ReplyDeleteu rate people too low man, but the gap that u have them at is good cuz at that rating u dont even consider them top laners, look who is in those tiers
ReplyDeletetrue but he finally done right in this patch (put shen and garen, proper tops in tier 3) and finally made urgot tier 4 as a champion, which made me happy. though i could be underestimating darius a bit, just him being over renekton is insane
ReplyDeleteCould Jayce be making a comeback with the introduction of the soul reaver item?
ReplyDeletethe item isn't the best atm, another small buff to it and jayce may be viable again!
ReplyDeleteLol it seems as though I've offended the Galio fanclub :p
ReplyDeleteBut I get what you're saying, I used Galio as a comparison because while the meta is starting to shift towards the team-fight based gameplay he is good at, his popularity is minimal right now. While I don't doubt he is a very good pick, I don't find him to be a whole tier above Zed. Like I said I know that the meta is moving away from assassins [RIP Kha' D:], but I don't think it's QUITE at the point where they are only "viable" choices. There will always be a need for someone to break the front lines and kill the carry imo.
I feel that top lane gragas needs to be placed a bit higher.
ReplyDeleteWhy move Zed down, when he has the perfect mid lane strength? Long ranged Q, very strong harass and escape
ReplyDeletedoesn't bring very much to a teamfight, his main source of single damage is hard countered by zhonyas and qss (and many champion abilites), and has a weak early game laning phase
ReplyDeleteOut of curiosity, how do you build him? I'm not personally convinced by the RoA bruiser build, but I have seen some very effective Gragases (Gragii?) building Lich Bane and splitpushing.
ReplyDeleteI think Nunu got stealth buffed relatively significantly by 4.10. Basically, everything he does is now more significant.
ReplyDeleteHe's as good at securing dragons as ever, but now they're worth more gold.
His ability to keep ADCs perma-blood boiled hasn't changed, but the current trend towards late game, Auto Attacking ADCs makes that ability much higher impact. Kog'Maw and Caitlyn can make much better use of the attack speed buff than, say, Corki, and keeping them out of harm's way with the movespeed buff is a more significant advantage for your team now than giving the same survivability to an early game, bursty ADC.
Nunu's snowball and ult are higher impact now than they once were for exactly the same reason. Kog'Maw hates being snowballed or hit by Absolute Zero much more than, say, Corki, and slowing him down for your top laner/support to get on top of him is a much bigger advantage for your team now. The all around buff to auto attackers makes Nunu's niche of AoE Attack Speed slowing plus almost permanent single target Attack Speed slow much more useful.
Nunu is also one of few tanks who generally preferred Frozen Heart over Randuin's as a primary armor item even before the latter got nerfed, which essentially further elevates him over his tanky brethren.
I know he's not a very popular champion atm, but he's one of my favorites and I do think he's at least mid-tier 2 material.
Lucian's the only ADC I can play :/
ReplyDeleteI'm not looking forward to having to learn another,
is this for junle nunu or support nunu?
ReplyDeleteI still think Randuin's is a better item in general, and would get that in most situations over the Frozen Heart. Generally, I'll pick it up on champions who really benefit from it (Nunu and Ryze immediately come to mind) when the enemy team has no significant source of AP damage, or at least no significant source of AP damage at the time when I decide which armor-giving defensive item I buy. Another important factor would be whether or not there is any opportunity to really take advantage of the aura (other team has a lot of autoattacking champions, like Kayle or Orianna in addition to the ADC and maybe a carry-style top or jungle).
ReplyDeleteI do find Nunu to be fairly strong, however, and would advocate that he's probably low Tier 2. Buff control/jungle dueling isn't too important relative to ganking strength and damage potential at the moment, but there're situations where he can be extremely strong. His teamfighting potential is disappointing, to say the least, however. Maybe with the meta shifting towards protecting ADCs (4.10 BotRK swag) he'll be able to find a niche again.
He got nerfed and then the meta shifted, mostly.
ReplyDeletePost 4.10: Zed's assassination potential is relatively minimal with the Mercurial Scimitar buffs for ADCs. Mid-laners can just buy Zhonya's. Now the other team has managed to build damage and defensive stats while negating your ability to do your job completely.
I've seen success in going with either an Iceborn Gauntlet or a Spirit Visage rush, depending on the other top-laner or fed mid-laner.
ReplyDeleteMostly just tanky items from there. His damage potential is pretty meh, he just kind of acts as a disruption tank the way I play him.
Corki's got the most similar playstyle, and is pretty decent right now. Same degree of flexibility in terms of what supports he can work with.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'll probably fall back to Corki or Graves, depending on who's more viable when Lucian finally gets smacked. I'm still hoping that they'll just love tap him into 'yeah, he's good' territory, though. He's a fun champ.
ReplyDeleteI like Randuin's on champs like Vi that will regularly find themselves within punching distance of the enemy's backline. On a champ like Nunu who's generally holding his ADC's hand, I think the CDR from Frozen Heart has more impact on your ability to do your job in the form of more frequent snowballs - I almost always aim for 40% CDR on my final build, and Frozen Heart goes a long way to achieving that.
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, I think the meta is definitely shifting back into his comfort zone.
Top Lane, what is going on???
ReplyDelete1. Rumble has a terrible win-rate and is really awkward to use, I think that jump to high Tier 1 is too generous. Ult is good in teamfights, that is all.
2. Garen being moved to Tier 3? His early game is much better than Jayce's or Zed's for example, as he can be a total lane bully, and can spam spells being manaless, and Vi top lane should be removed anyway ,her kit is made purely for jungling, and I never see any Viktor's top either.
Late game Garen can jump first into a teamfight and be a meatshield, which isn't terrible. He is worthy of middle/ bottom Tier 2 in my opinion, especially in Bronze, where he can stomp if he is used correctly and built full tank+ Black Cleaver.
-Former Garen main
Jungle, sorry. I thought I mentioned that originally, but I guess not.
ReplyDeleteyes, I know but what I meant was for the tier lists in the future. So I know how long to wait after the update
ReplyDeleteKOG'MAWWWW
ReplyDeleteMY BABYYYYYYYY
<33333333333333
'Tis a beautiful day for league.
#bestcutestmostlovableadcarryseason4
Could you add a reasoning why Vi moved back up to god tier and Thresh was knocked down?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of zed now?
ReplyDeleteWTF CORKI VAYNE TIER 2 YOU ARE DRUNK
ReplyDeleteMaokai Tweaks? I strongly disagree - these are direct buffs. As of 4.11, he has lowered mana costs, lowered cooldowns, and his jungle item Spirit of the Ancient Golemn was buffed. Only his Q and Ulti were tweaks, and the changes in general don't change his playstyle.
ReplyDeleteHe's works well as an early game ganker that transitions into a strong peeler mid-game.
For sometime that i See Viktor on Tier 2 but i Think he is more viable than a lot of champs that are on tier 1 Actually, for example: Karma, Lux and Ahri, since his utility on the fights is Huge, and his early game poke is strong.
ReplyDeletetwitch tier 3 ??? kha'zix tier 3 ??? leblanc tier 3 ??? how can you put them so low ??? twitch is still powerful , kha'zix lose to a master yi in solo queue ??? leblanc just as a ahri , if ahri tier 1 , how a leblanc tier 3 ?? ahri all skill shot , a leblanc got 5 flash !!!! how they at tier 3 !!!
ReplyDeletegragas tier 3 ????warwick god tier ????
ReplyDeleteWarwick scales hard, snowballs hard, and can function well as both a tank and a fighter. Lane Gragas has fallen out of favor due to his damage nerfs, he's currently better as a tanky support/jungler (both T2). As for other 3, their nerfs hit them hard, and their win rates show. If you're going to compare Ahri to Leblanc, then let's say Ahri is better due to her superior sustained damage, Leblanc must either go all-in or play passively, and the Sigil nerf made it harder for her to do just that.
ReplyDeleteBased on your username, let's just assume that have you have the skill to use Vayne (which most people targeted by this list don't). Meanwhile, Corki is completely outclassed by the likes of Tristana and Lucian.
ReplyDeleteCan someone explain Miss Fortune's god tier?
ReplyDeleteLeBlanc has 700 unit point and click harass, and a 950 unit skill shot. Being forced to go all in isn't one of her weaknesses imo.
ReplyDeleteI'd be inclined to say that they're both comparably bad at the moment.
i feel that ap nidalee mid would still work and should be at least at tier 2.
ReplyDeletei've been a nida main since s2 and the new patch nidalee has alot of potential.
since u have cougar at the start, and the new passive enhances ur cougar skills, if u can land a spear or trap at lvl 4, all ins would almost gurentee a kill or flash burn.
in addition to that, u can trade with mid mages or champs like yasuo or diana, with spears n cougar.
while they nerfed q damage ALOT, its still an extremely good poke late, and ur execute still does a shitload of damage, making her still viable, full ap
i love playing ashe but how is she teir 1 from teir 2 or 3
ReplyDeleteAre you 100% sure quinn should be in tier 2? I recently played her and she seems very strong, although never played quinn vs kog??
ReplyDeleteI main Zac top as tank and although you are right to say the buff won't affect his lane much it will increase damage output in duels and team fights and also increase his sustain and farming ability because the cool down of his w is affectively halved the way riot did it. And as for being tier 3, although he is underplayed, he is very strong, I almost always win my lane and if i don't I am still a late game beast! I would say tier 1 top lane.
ReplyDeleteIn short, he is an unkillable super tank with crazy sustain and an absolutely brilliant and diverse crowd control kit, and he also brings a deceptive amount of damage.
And needless to say dat fricking jump!
I am a big viktor fan, and he is my main mid laner.
ReplyDeleteI think tier 1 for him. Amazing damage as both poke and duelist. And most importantly even when behind because of his gravity field and his ult he is still very powerful.
I also play cassiopoeia and the move was wise as she is op, the ult and the fact that she basically has the biggest damage output potential of any mid lamer makes her formidable. I could be wrong, but these two champions serve me well (although I have only been playing cass for a couple of weeks)
Also, i wanted to buy quinn or kog for a solo Q carry, i also have other adcs but i want the most "op" champion the patch??
ReplyDeleteHey there. I'm really happy to see the tier list again, missed it a lot last weeks. That said, I'd like to cumpliment you on the foresight for the 4.11 patch; it's not the first time you say "that will be OP, that wont" and the last times you were so damn right. I will only disagree with Kayle at God Tier, since she can't (I belive) 1x5 anymore, people will simply think she's shit, like they did with Diana and some other champs. Thanks and congrats for the list
ReplyDeleteBut now everyone will play him and he will get nerfed :'( I wanted him to be secret op forever :(((
ReplyDeleteFinally someone realizes that kog is strong xD He was low god/high 1 even before the botrk tweaks imo.
ReplyDeleteShe's good for counter picking teams with good engage but in lane feels pretty weak and can give an advantage to the enemy bot, specially against aggresive supports like Thresh or Leona, definetly got buffed, but still not really good in the actual meta imo.
ReplyDeleteI recently had massive success building BOTRK, greaves, Black Cleaver and Runaan's. I relied less on ult to kill, the damage output was still massive. Still rounding out the build though, not sure if I should go TF, Phantom Dancer. Infinity Edge... TF seems like the best option, honestly I played three games and they all ended before I could build something else XD.
ReplyDeleteI think you're downplaying new NIdalee. She's a very strong lane bully right now. She can spear you jump on you, do a ton of damage and jump back out (if she didn't just kill you there). Her buff to her spear width should help people pick her up more easily; and overall she got buffs. I wouldn't be surprised if she makes it into God tier.
ReplyDeleteI always thought Kog was weak, but then I noticed it was just I played with a lot of really bad Kogs.... So I don't know he may be God tier for LCS, but for regular old Normals that I play he's trash tier for me.
ReplyDeleteFor Solo Queue Bronze~Gold he's a MONSTER! 53% win rate, and that just started rising! The item sets work wonders on the beast, he posts a lot of great poking tools, and his win rate with Inf Edge and Trinity is UNRIVALED.
ReplyDeleteActually, VI might benefit from the new SOTAG. Some people built it on her anyway. I don't think she as OP, people claim her to be, but I don't think she's lost any viability.
ReplyDeletei main ww jungle, and after the feral flare nerf, switched for a spirit of the ancient golem, you should build it off-tank, and try it for yourselves, y personally have won 62% of my games with ww, but in this patch im not sure, i need to test the new ancient golem item first.
ReplyDeletein no sane world is warwick even a top 20 jungler
ReplyDeleteDue to the fact that I'm still in Gold I, I've decided to stop trying to do ALL roles, and instead do my best roles mid and support, so hopefully I'll try to get into Platinum soon :D
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which, I like your ideas on the supports, but I disagree with some.
Namely:
1. Nami and Blitzcrank: These people are doing VERY well, almost every time they're in a game, I see them do many plays and eventually win the game thanks to a fed ADC courtesy of the named support. I've also been on a winning streak with Nami out of 9 games. Their win rates are pretty good too.
2. Zyra: She's certainly Tier 1, but I still don't believe she's God. You have to notice that almost ALL her abilities are skillshots, she's probably the squishiest champion in the game, she has long CDs early on, low movement speed early on, and she gets mana hungry more rapidly than Sona does. I feel that her win rate is from her Mid, not her support, and she gets countered by very popular supports (Leona, Morgana, and nami to boot).
3. Karma: This may be some pent up bias caused by bad Karmas that I've seen so much, but here's my shpeel. Common ADCs and supports RUIN HER. Exhibit A: Caitlyn. Exhibit B: Thresh. Exhibit C: Janna.
Her kit itself doesn't do so good support-wise as much as people believe, and her win rate reflects it with 48%.
4. Lulu: I've been arguing this for 3 patches, but she's a GODLIKE support. Variety of utility spells, including Glitter Dance and Whimsy which are FANTASTIC, her spells are very spammable, she's great at kiting, she can adapt to many different situations and synergizes well with most ADCs, and she has a great win rate for someone who's banned pretty often (on the top 10 bans).
5. Janna and Taric: These people, despite what people believe, are Tier 2 and are not benefitting as much as we thought. Janna is still a situational pick, with around a 50% win rate, and she doesn't have decent laning phase because of her passive playstyle. She also lacks some damage and burst that other supports like Leona have, and she lacks the sustain others have (especially since her abilities cost tons of mana). Taric, on the other hand, has been doing poorly early on and after 4.11 just decent with 50%. He has low mobility, he's a very predictable support, he has high mana costs, another person whose passive playstyle hurts his laning phase, he has low early damage, and Bronze people do not like him.
6. Annie: Self-explanatory, move the mage support up.
7. Alistar: Final point: this support SUCKS. Low win rate of 43%, he's heavily reliant on his W+Q combo, his E is a very weak heal, has very little use on his own, low damage, no buffs for allies, desynergy with some ADCs, low mobility, long CDs on abilities, extremely mana hungry, w/o ult he is much less tanky, and a huge skill cap. Tier 3.
Out of the 7, the Karma one probably has the most bias, but the others I think are fair points and should be noted.
Twitch: Haven't looked at his nerfs have you... and you also don't know how to read champion explanations below the tier list.
ReplyDeleteKha'Zix: Above explanation.
LB: Yes, he's being too hard on the deceiver, and maybe she should be low Tier 2, but you need to read that champion explanation as well.
Ahri is a monster because she doesn't require as much skill (her ult and w aren't skillshots O.O), and she has a lot of damage early on. LB is so skill reliant it hurts.
That may be true for top, but that is in no way true for mid Nidalee.
ReplyDeleteHer champion explanations describe her best, but she's way too skill reliant now, throwing spears doesn't work anymore (what buffs on her spear? oh, you mean the width buff? news flash, the previous patch 4.10 nerfed its damage to ****), she's far too cougar reliant now, and her win rate is the 3rd lowest in the game.
He's tier 4.
ReplyDeleteEnemies know how to deal with him easily now (destroy blobs, step on chunks of health, gank mid game) which means he loses his sustain easily, his ult can break ganks accidentally, his slingshot can be easily interrupted and is both hard to land and easily dodged (and if you use it to initiate you now have no escape), far too skill reliant, all of his attacks are AoE (makes it hard for farming or harassing w/o pushing the lane), and he's terrible at pushing towers.
Also, have you seen his win rate?
Kog. definitely Kog.
ReplyDeleteQuinn deserves Tier 3 status for how skill reliant she is and how reliant she is on a support most of the time + her win rate.
You upvoted yourself, there goes your believability.
ReplyDeleteHe is far worse than he has ever been, even if you build him like last season, and it's not just his bulid that's hurting him, it's his playability! He's now a much squishier assassin that's more skill reliant and needs to be more careful 70% of the time. His win rate also went down the drain.
And you need to read his champion explanation on the tier list.
I thought so too, but instead it's been much more of a negative for her early game. Less health early on, no tenacity (which was useful for how vulnerable she was to CC), and the butcher hurt her clear time.
ReplyDeleteHer win rate also jumped down a percentage to 46%.
A fair opinion and one shared by many people who have never seen him played well, and you are right that often those are problems he faces. However, if enemies are trying to stand on your blobs you get a lot of zoning potential allowing you to position yourself to hit a q through minions farming and poking as well as potentially having an easy target to land your jump. After a few times punishing enemy champions they will often stop even trying to stand on blobs because it hurts them more than it denies you. You are kind of right about the jump which is why it is op when used carefully and not spammed, engages should normally always be from the fog of war (as the range is larger than the view distance) and should only be used when you know the enemies interrupts and stuns are on cool down, also using it as a wall hop instead of trying to charge and leap away gives them much less time to do anything as it is pretty much instant cast at that range, also with wards when you see a gank coming all he needs to do is stand in a top bush and charge his jump and fly pretty much back to tower completely wasting the gank. As for farming, like any champ practice makes perfect and as a result I would normally expect to have a lot of farm, even though he doesn't need that much to scale well (as a tank). In terms of his kit in late game, if enemies are putting all this time into countering you, (walking on blobs and stunning you when you e) that is brilliant because they are just wasting time and cool downs wandering around treading on blobs and stunning you not the adc. I can see you do not rate him but I would recommend him as their is nothing more fun than being a fed full build tank Zac.
ReplyDeleteAnd I would say their is no such thing as a champion being too skill reliant, it just gives you more opportunity for jukes and outplays.
I will not argue that he is rubbish at pushing towers. (although i do tend to proxy a bit with him as his sustain allows him to take minion damage even early game. )
ssj can you tell me why akali dropped down to tier2? ty for the tier list!
ReplyDeleteAww, was hoping for quinn, but ill go for Kog Maw thanks!
ReplyDeleteThe problem with your argument is that no one in Bronze or Silver DOES play him like this!
ReplyDeleteAnd that's why he's so skill reliant! He's so dependent on someone maining him so that they know what to do rather than being picked up and played!
Uh, no such thing as a champion being too skill reliant? Exhibit A: Leblanc. Exhibit B: Kassadin.
It's not that people are wasting time countering him, it's that they KNOW how to deal with him.
Oh, c'mon. Everyone knows how to deal with Zac. Walk over his blobs and poke him when you can, kill his 4 blobs when he's down (which is ridiculously easy), and apply some pressure on him mid game.
Nowhere in my argument did I say that people spend time countering him or that people spam his abilities. His slingshot is hard to land for Bronzies and people can easily dodge it.
The whole fog of war argument is situational, and that's conjecture based.
Uh no, slingshot is not instant-cast. It's very easily interrupted. THAT's Zac main bias.
Practice makes perfect? Sure, but if I can get a lot out of other champions in top with far less practice (Renekton, Riven, Jax, Lulu, Wukong, Irelia, Mundo...), then there's a problem.
I have NEVER seen a fully built Zac. EVER. He always falls off late game and he ends up being a completely useless person that you can kill easily because he's not very tanky anymore.
Just like Jax and Kayle...... Damn you Zion and Overpow >:(
ReplyDeleteYeah I understand that no one plays him well, but just because he is played badly and not very much does not make him low tier. I think what I said about skill reliance has been misconstrued. What I mean is that with champions like leblanc and kassadin(and zac although i don't think he is on their level) that are skill reliant have high skill caps. Meaning they are harder to master, but I find this means that in a way they are better when played well. For example if I faced a standard top laner like renekton and he is at a similar standard to me, their is more i can do to outplay him than he me because zac's kit gives him lots of outplay ability. For example (lets pretend its patch 4.9) if someone took Le blanc for the first time they would probably fail hard, but that doesn't mean she wasn't very op.
ReplyDeleteI think our takes on this conversation are coming from different places. For me this champ tier list is under the assumption that each champion is being played at their best not their worst, whereas i would say you are assuming they are being played at a more nooby standard or maybe first time picks. The trouble is if you are gonna say that good players will counter you kind of have to assume that the zac player is also of a good standard.
And it surprises me that you haven't seen a full build zac. If you want I would really enjoy having a game with you and see if i can convince you that he is viable and show you him full build. and i didn't say the leap was instant cast, Isaid it was pretty much instant cast as it is when going short range over a small wall.
I am enjoying this, it is interesting. Thank you.
Where are these epic Kogs when I play then?? lol
ReplyDeleteWell yeah AP Nidalee is dead, I'm talking about bruiser Nidalee. I think this is post-rework Kassadin scenario, in that for a while everyone just stop played him, and suprise he's still OP.
ReplyDeleteTbh I doubt they'll nerf koggy.
ReplyDeleteThe reason Jax and Kayle were nerfed was because they were overwhelmingly powerful in multiple roles. Kayle was an extremely powerful hybrid dps champ with very powerful supporting. Jax also had powerful hybrid dps while being naturally very tanky.
Koggles is really good at pretty much only one thing: vomiting caustic acid on his enemies from great distances <3 It just so happens the current items/meta now favor him.
Urgot adc tier 4... Luckily, I'm sure the splash update will be counted as a buff by rito.
ReplyDeleteI'm almost never OOM as Zyra, even because her W has no mana cost... If you end your mana as Zyra you are just spamming like there's not tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteI agree with u about everything except Janna, Ardent Censer has the most benefit on her than any other support, as the shield gives ad and now attack speed. This also works on towers, allowing her to stall games much better. However, knowing her difficulty of use, she shouldn't be moved up but not down either.
ReplyDeletelol adorable!
ReplyDeleteRenekton deserves more than tier 2, his laning phase is unmatched and he can splitpush/teamfight better than most top laners, I know the ADCs are harder to stick too but Renekton is still a great peeler.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's possible to spam with Zyra with high CDs...
ReplyDeleteEven if you're not spamming, her mana pool is small compared to how much her abilities cost...
"Ardent Censer has the most benefit on her than any other support"
ReplyDelete*cocks shotgun*
Nami, Lulu, Morgana, and Sona.
It works on towers, sure, but her laning phase and her passive laning style hasn't changed!
I would think it has a lot to do with her early game strength. She crushes bot lane early and her ult goes really well with popular supps and jungles
ReplyDeleteRanduin's just gives that extra bit of survivability and peel over Frozen Heart that I generally opt for it in normal games. In a draft pick scenario, you generally shouldn't be choosing Nunu unless you could benefit from Frozen Heart though, I agree.
ReplyDeleteNot my fault if you never see them. Maybe because you're playing ADC?
ReplyDeleteIf the statistics show that he's doing very well, pretty sure it's just you.
Dude, AD and AS steriod, what can get better than that....
ReplyDeleteAs Pablo himself stated far below in this dungeon:
ReplyDelete"She's good for counter picking teams with good engage but in lane feels pretty weak and can give an advantage to the enemy bot, specially against aggresive supports like Thresh or Leona, definetly got buffed, but still not really good in the actual meta imo."
Just remember she's a passive support vs. aggressive supports.
Right, I forgot about that, but she still shouldnt be moved down when she got buffed :/
ReplyDeleteShe got buffed, but I just feel she doesn't belong in this meta quite yet. Unless someone finds a playstyle with a build to boot that takes advantage of aggressive supports, Tier 1 isn't exactly a position for her.
ReplyDeleteHer rework got her working again but she is too easily catched to be god tier atm. Tier 1 is where she should be because her damage is still hella good.
ReplyDeleteI Believe Veigar deserves more credit than he gets, Veigar really disrupts AP Mids, especially when they snowball. All he really needs is a Deathfire and he can take out just about any target. For ALL squishy champs, Deathfire-> Ult = Their Demise. Even if they use barrior.
ReplyDelete"For ALL squishy champs, Deathfire->Ult=Their Demise"
ReplyDelete*puts gun to mouth*
"Even if they use barrior"
*pulls trigger*
Veigar is CLEARLY tier 3.
Low win rate, worst early game for a mid ever, hilariously squishy, no escape or mobility mechanism, single target nuke and there's 4 other players, high skill cap, positioning has to be perfect in teamfights or you will die easily, he does NOT disrupt AP mids (especially since the meta is now shifting towards assassins and AD champs).
And his win rate:
Bronze 46%, Silver 45%, Gold 47%.
I don't play adc, do you have something against me? lol... Please stop replying to my post if you're just going to troll.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking at someone who talked about "regular old Normals that I play he's trash tier" at a Solo Queue tier list that has nothing to do with Normals and you're talking about how I troll...
ReplyDeleteI think that Renekton don't deserve Tier 2, just build him an Hydra if you need dmg and Black Cleaver at the end of the game, the only adc that gives me problems every game is vayne, I don't have problems against the others unless they are so fed.
ReplyDeletei think that gragas needs be higher then tier 3 top
ReplyDeleteHIs laning phase is still great and can bully easily very early but Renekton's main thing was that he got fed early, turned into a monumental tank and do what kha zix would do pre nerf and brute force his way to the back line. Now that's gone he can really struggle, teamfight's he offers a stun and aoe damage which whilst not bad it definitely beaten out by someone like Jax who has an AOE stun, insane damage and huge mobility. Laning phase, still god tier but Late game he struggles.
ReplyDeleteamumu god tier? you can kill him in his second buff with any jungler (even urgot jungler) and if you manage to kill him again he is out of the game....
ReplyDeleteTRISTANA MY MAIN BITCH FLYING HER WAY TO THE TOP
ReplyDeleteGaren actually I feel holds a really interesting niche. He is one of the few champs who can solo shut down a Jax thanks to incredible tankiness, silence and having really good damage early. Not to mention he craps all over casters with that silence and with caster tops are becoming more and more popular (Lulu, Gragas, Lee Sin, nidalee to some extent, Rumble etc etc) he can actually find himself ahead very early on to a majority of Matchups.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of teamfights this is where he holds another niche not many tanks have. THAT MOVESPEED. 350 base for a tank is incredible and that only gets higher, with a max'd q giving an instant 100 movespeed at 390 movespeed, for a good amount of time, and on an 8 second cooldown, not to mention the silence and empowered auto that comes with it, allowing him to flit in and out of the fight finding targets to either a) combo or b) Silence. you want something to shut down that Kassadin, this guy won't have finished shouting Demacia before the ult execute comes flying down killing him. Oh did Lulu just glitterlance you aww what a sham.. oh wait I can cancel the slow and silence her with the same move. Not to mention he's manaless and and can clear waves easily with his q+e, and then has his q to run away and his tankiness to take anything thrown at him. He may not have a Jax leap strike or be able to jump over a wall 5 times in a row (lb looking at you) but in a standard foot race (even with charms and taunts and stuns being thrown at him) there's actually very few who can catch him
Yes he's a simple champ with no q+q+flash+Kick to throw squishy adcs to your team but with Casters very popular now, Garen is not only in meta (or rather is anti meta) but has a kit that deals with it easily.
Tips for him, he works better in a pick comp, catching people out in the jungle and such, a rushed Black Cleaver makes him very powerful early and build tank/bruiser from there, if you see one or two casters (specifically in the mid or top lane) don't be afraid to pick him
Yeah you can but he's useful at the late game no matter what. An AOE 2 second snare fits into any team comp. And if he plays smart and doesn't die and hell maybe even gets a gank or two off before 6 then that's gg. He can 1v1 thanks to incredible tankiness and percent damage (not to mention his passive which shreds mr which turns give him stupid damage)
ReplyDeletetriforce + iceborne on nid...? that wouldnt work because passive are both spellblade
ReplyDelete*facepalm*
ReplyDeleteOf course that's true, but it's not the spellblade that makes it work. As Nidalee, you get Iceborn FIRST so the passive procs on your iceborn instead of your trinity when you get trinity later, so the passive still works.
Anyway, if it's working right now in top lane according to lolking, why argue?
BS.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, that's no longer true with the buff to Spirit of the Ancient Golem.
Second, he has MASSIVE AoE damage, large amounts of CC, quick clear time, efficient ganks, he's tanky despite his damage output, his ultimate is fantastic and synergizes well with your team no matter the comp, he's VERY easy to learn, and his ganking potential is INCREDIBLE.
Third, he has the 2nd highest win rate in the game (or the highest since Kayle's ban rate could influence her win rate), with a win rate of 55% for Bronze~Gold.
Janna is good because her synergy with certain adcs is fantastic, Draven+Janna is a ridiculous lane to fight against thanks to Draven now having peel and an AD steriod+Shield and an AS buff with ardent censor. Similar thing with Jinx(best tower pushing duo)
ReplyDeleteBut she deserves Tier 2, having fantastic synergy with only a few adcs isn't good enough. Shadow pointed it out far too passive and not to mention weak early. If you can get a lane where Janna is good with then yes she's fantastic but they aren't always played and look at the current popular picks, Caitlyn, Lucian, Vayne all champs who have bad synergy with Janna as they have escapes and often can't follow up on a Tornado (too short to set up a snap trap, lucian probably won't kill off that, unless they are right next to a wall and you aren't pushing them too far backwards then Vayne can't follow up)
tl dr. Janna has a few amazing synergies with adcs but with none of the ones that are getting played, not to mention there are often better picks who have more versatility.
If you do want to play Quinn try her top lane, her 1v1 early is insane and in a lane where early advantages are everything Quinn can do decent in that role. But then the team often misses out on a tank.
ReplyDeletePut her in the right team comp and she will do well and really help the team
Item changes.
ReplyDeleteShe's auto attack reliant so the bork is great on her, IE got buffed and that was core on Ashe anyways so she get more damage on that and late game champs are more favourable now which arguable Ashe with mutliple slows, easy access to gold with her e and an aoe slow plus single target global stun she is right now
yeah but in his first levels if he fall behind he can't recover that easily like the other God tiers, without the blue buff between lvl 1-4 he runs out of mana cleaning 3 camps, I'm not saying he is bad, is easily a tier 1 because his late game is insane, I'm saying that he doesn't deserve God tier for the simply reason he just can't recover from a bad start as easily as the another God tiers
ReplyDeletesorry if I couldn't explain it properly, English is not my strong suit
ReplyDeleteWas Vi ever not God Tier? Well she still has insane damage+gank potential, similar to Rengar she can just jump straight to adcs with her ult and kill them quickly and she can fit into many different teams.
ReplyDeleteThresh is mainly because he's a high skill cap champion who many people actually struggle to play. He's still incredibly powerful but he only deserves God Tier when he's being used to his full extent (lantern ganks, hook+lantern in adc, proper relic shield farming and being able to flay backwards which can be surprisingly hard for some people.)
3 camps? That's enough gold for him to finish his Quill Coat, in which case mana will no longer be an issue. Let's disregard the "what if he falls behind" scenario, as EVERY champion would suffer if they lose out in farm and exp. Amumu can actually recover very easily, a gank or 2 to catch up isn't that hard for the cc king.
ReplyDeleteUmm have you seen Rumble's win rate, 51.26% which is still pretty good. Awkward to use, not really, I mean I picked him up within a game or two and he wasn't that hard to learn (last hitting is hard at first but you get used to it) and can easily 2v1 even if ganked if you place the ult right. Now most of this comes with practice but he is a great top lane champion.
ReplyDeleteWhen I play amumu jungle I tell my team "i'm going to start red, because i'm terrified of (insert champion). If I ping, rush to help me" and more times than not I kill the other jungler lol. Anyways, I'm always shocked at the amount of people who don't counter jungle Amumu. Either way though, he's probably going to be better than you late game.
ReplyDeleteOne does not simply take Amumu out of the game...
ReplyDeleteShe's fantastic on those champs yes but she struggle with many of the other champs who have good escapes and don't need the peel that Janna provides.
ReplyDeleteStill good but needs certain adcs which does quite literally make her balanced
Assassin's are still in the meta just about. Talon, Yasuo, Diana(just but I'm bias cause I main her), Fizz, Katarina, Kassadin, Ahri and to some extent Syndra are all still good and are very notable (especially Talon and Yasuo) Assassin's are still alive but Zed is just been countered harder than most by exhaust, QSS and Zhonya;s
ReplyDeleteAlso I reckon Amumu will probably skyrocket to stupid levels. 2nd highest win rate and Kayle getting nerfed. The one guy who doesn't seem like a fighter is going to be the true Legend in the League
ReplyDeleteIts more dependent on the ADC, Caitlyn, Ashe and similar adcs rush IE but have to buy 2 Doran's Blade to make up for the lack of sustain.
ReplyDeleteMost other Adcs rush Bork because their auto attacks now do ridiculous damage no matter what they build afterwards thanks to percentage damage (Why Kog, Trist and Caityn have been improved)
why isnt vayne strong tier i know her laning phase isnt good but she can carry games on her own
ReplyDelete>laning phase isn't strong.
ReplyDeleteShe also has a high skillcap, which is demonstrated by her low win rate.
Is not nautilus supposed to be the cc king? xDD
ReplyDeletehmm, that's right the Quill Coat can repair that, okay maybe he is tier God now. I have to test some thing, and still nautilus is the CC King
ReplyDeleteSingle-target, yes. But Amumu is better at locking entire teams.
ReplyDeletewhy draven get knocked down from god tier.?
ReplyDeleteElise still tier 2? I don't play Elise but most of them build SotAG so she should get higher, but I can't really know because I don't play Elise, just theorycrafting. :_D
ReplyDeleteI will love to say that Tris is my main, but is just the only adc that I can play xD
ReplyDeleteNo. ShadowSect seems to be a jerk a lot. Whole, high and mighty higher tier thinking.
ReplyDeletelol no lie that is me too XDDD
ReplyDeletei might even have to say veigar is better as a support than a mid. Too many mids bully him out for him to safely q farm. His combo only kills one person. Now, as a support, he can have the safety of a duo lane, with annoying poke early game and (with some mid game farm), the same single target burst late game.
ReplyDeleteUrgot needs a new tier of his own: deity tier. so good, nobody picks him.
ReplyDeleteAnd all of his damage was lowered to compensate.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree :)
ReplyDeleteAnd nobody will be with me in this but...༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つLeona jungle tier 1 the dream ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
ReplyDeleteIts 55.3% now :)
ReplyDeleterenekton and riven need to be higher. there skill potential in higher elos is insane.
ReplyDeletei consider yasuo god tier b/c of the snowball potential/farm up to shiv and game is won
ReplyDeleteThis tier list isn't reflecting what happens in higher ranks. It reflects what happens to the people who actually care take the list seriously, as in, rarely anything higher than gold.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with that! SOTAG will make her clear faster which was her problem. Her ganks are great, so I'm expecting her to rise to possibly middle of tier 1 jungle!
ReplyDeleteQ: damage the same (slow duration lowered 0.5s)
ReplyDeleteW: damage tweaked, likely buffed against most champions (at least late game) due to %MAX health
E: Yes, nerfed damage-wise
R: Radius nerfed, not damage nerfed
So... False. The damage was only lowered on his E.
You want to play her when you're adc is either Draven, Jinx, Kogmaw, or Tristana. The only time you might not want to is if you lack tankiness on your team, in which case you really should go leona/braum/thresh.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he's downplaying Nidalee. He said in the other article he posted that he's expecting her to be extremely powerful soon. When people stop building her AP and/or stop playing her support and realize top lane is where it's at, her win rate should improve.
ReplyDeleteHow can you make this list before the stats from lolking are up? Just what are you basing this list on? Your extensive playtime with all these champs for the 1 day the patch has been live?
ReplyDeleteactually if no one knew thresh with his little AoE shield and Sona with her aura. I think those have the best effect
ReplyDelete1) A good Nami/Blitz carries. Simple as that, agree.
ReplyDelete2) I've been against Zyra God Support since day one. Squishy, low base movement speed, and the only useful item on her beyond Gold Item and Sightstone is Liandry's.
3) Karma, bad. Only shows up due to Bjerkson
4) Lulu's alright in lane, but I think she really shines with wumbo combo. If I have to go a non-tanky, non damaging support (does Morg count?), I'd rather pick Nami for range + versatility or Sona for higher Ulti impact. I could see her being underrated, but I do honestly think she is outshined.
5) Janna's "buff" due to Ardent Censar is overhyped. She isn't great in lane and only offers disengage in teamfights (not really a desired trait in most comps). Taric, IMO, is a one-trick pony (on-target stun) with a nice little armor buff. I only think he's useful with Graves, although he's more unique with the long-lost armor-buff on Locket.
6) Annie: Where did she go nearly ten patches ago? I disagree about the "self explanitory" part at least - sure, nice AOE stun and CC, but that was a whole support meta shift ago.
7) Damn straight, he's weak. Do people really argue he's strong? INB4 Korean's...
If nothing else, thank you for being polite and eager for discussion - You are the 1% who is! And thanks for not using phrasing like "Why Zac no Teir 1?????OMG noobs YoloSwag420"
ReplyDeleteShe is one of the few junglers who build SotAG who isn't a) directly buffed this patch like Naut, Maokai, b) inherently strong like Amumu, or c) a great niche pick like Sej or Rammus.
ReplyDeleteShe doesn't benefit that well from SotAG since Elise rushes Frozen Heart (no health item) or Haunting Guise (which only gives 50 additional HP with SotAG buff).
Inb4 Xerath and Kog'Maw duo ques dominate the ranked scene....
ReplyDeleteWe miss you, just sayin'.
ReplyDeleteIf have the feeling you rushed this tierlist an little to hard this time. Twitch tier 3 you must be joking while IE & Botrk got buffed. I also don't agrea with Kha on tier 3. He's probaly out the meta right now & the isolation range might need to be nevert. It's an kinda ballanced tier 2 champ right now.
ReplyDeleteI'm also not agrea on the graves being tier 1 while he was the one that got hurt the most from the BT nerf. Maybe in the next patch it can go up against but right now it's tier 2 he deserves to be.
For Corki I'm also not that sure. Sure he deserves to be on the tier 2 list but so long the waveclear meta exist Corki has an small chance to get in the tier 1 again.
Kayle & Ziggs still in the god tier is really an bad call you made since the nerfs on Kayle where massive & ziggs waveclear & mobility got hurt an little bit. Kassadin deserves to be replace with Kayle or just remove everyone from the god tier list if you really want to be correct.
Gragas Top tier 3, is this an joke? This guy deserves an place on tier 1 right now. I have an feeling someone didn't try rod of ages on him yet. The new jungle item finaly made it possible to get an proper jungle build for him. Tier 1 will be an must right now. Also why I gragas support still tier 2. Your late with your list. Currently an lot of pro's already accept him as tier 1. You should follow. Did you ever play gragas after his rework since your are really behind on his current state in the game.
Renekton is still tier 1. The doran nerf hit him hard. While others claim that the meta has buffed him. The differents just became that he's now an situational pick rather than an solid pick right now. Tier 1 should be given back to him. You overrated the nerfs.
Leblanc isn't tier 3, her damage is still insame an the counterplay provided to her just hit her back to the lower tier 1 list. Maybe just tier 2. Placing her in tier 3 is again overrated.
Caitlyn is god tier again. Her IE start made her really scary & ones BT get buffed next patch their is litterly no weakness on her anymore whatever she tries to build.
Draven is really close from falling into tier 2. He shouldn't be in front of the list anymore.
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Please redo this list, you are giving an lot of people the wrong idea.
actually you're underestimating veigar. Not saying hes strong but the one shot even if they use barrier thing is very accurate. Hell, ive seen him oneshot a tank renekton that used ult before.
ReplyDeletelets just imagine for one second that twitch is tier 3. the item changes from 4.10 didn't affect him. sure his q and e were nerfed but it honestly isn't that bad. the yomous buff was a great one and it syngerizes with the 8% current health from blade. Twitch at the very least deserves tier 2 if not tier 1.
ReplyDeleteAre you saying to go both Iceborn and Triforce on Nidalee? Isn't buying two spellblade items an ineffective path? I always wondered about combining those two items
ReplyDeletei agree that while twitch isn't a strong adc anymore and is maybe even a little bit weak right now, he definetly isn't nearly as bad tf and kennen which aren't played and should be removed from the list. I personally do not see those troll picks working. Btw can someone explain to me their potential viability as an adc?
ReplyDeletebelieve me twitch isnt weak. its still very easy to dominate as twitch and botrk + ghostblade is amazing with his ult for teamfights. to answer as to why Tf and Kennen are on the list is because well for Tf he was a adc way back in the days and technically both champions have a kit which can serve as an adc. Tf with passive AS buff and a stun and Kennen with his passive. sure they dont scale or perform as good as their ap counter parts but they can function. they should however not be played in ranked as a serious option.
ReplyDeleteNautilus might see some tweaks.. hes sleeper op and hes power creeping... my 15 win streak champ might bet nerfed even now that I think about it :(
ReplyDeleteHybrid build is already really common on Kennen, his w gives him 80% bonus damage on every 5th auto, he has good cc, and good self peel: just pop ult in a teamfight and anyone who gets close gets stunned
ReplyDeleteChill out, he creates the tier list and inputs the changes he thinks will happen for the next patch, then when it comes out he makes updates to his prediction as time goes on. He uses several factors to create these tier lists, and although I think most people could have this tier list looking slightly different in their own ways (different perspectives leading to fun discussions), this one here is the most accurate you can find.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this. I am a Renekton main and although I agree with the reasoning behind his lower placement it certainly shouldnt be below champs like Yorick and Kennen. I feel like Renekton is still an extremely strong top laner and belongs somewhere in the middle of tier 1. The trick with picking Renekton in ranked is to confirm you will have a jungler/ support with heavy cc or strong engage allowing you to enter the fight or peel if its necessary. If Renekton is required to engage to start the fight then you will have problems although not as much if you were playing someone like Yorick, who is higher on the tier list.
ReplyDelete