In the newest rendition of the Tier List, Patch 5.6 has provided some of the most unloved champions on the rift some much needed buffs. They still shy away in the face of the ever-changing meta, but in the name of balance Riot's definitely making progress...
SEASON 5 - PATCH 5.6 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
"Division Climbers"
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
Preface Chatter
Hi everyone and welcome to the newest edition of the Solo Queue Tier List "Division Climbers". This update is brought to you a day early courtesy of a bet I made with the Nerfplz Facebook fan page. If you haven't liked the page yet, be sure to do so soon!Anyway, Riot's graciously provided tons of buffs for the lowest champions on the tier list this time around, but it seems like the current Cinderhulk meta still favors most of the same champions from the last patch.
This means I had a chance to really dig through those Tier 2 and Tier 3 picks since the top end didn't change much. Check out the full listing below!
Patch 5.6 Summary
Buffs: Aatrox, Bard, Elise, Evelynn, Galio, Karthus, Nocturne, Quinn, Rammus, Ryze, Singed, Twitch, Veigar, Yorick, Ziggs, Zilean
Nerfs: Cassiopeia, Irelia, Katarina, Leblanc, Sejuani, Sion
Nerfs: Cassiopeia, Irelia, Katarina, Leblanc, Sejuani, Sion
Toolkit and Options
Search for a champion:
Updates:
- Added Jungle Alistar back in [Tier 3]
- Added Diana Top [Tier 2]
- 4/1: Added Wukong Mid explanation
- 4/4: Kog'maw mid moved up
- 4/6: Cho'gath moved up, Gragas Jungle moved up
- 4/9: Added Pantheon support article
The Tier List
God Tier [Highest Influence]:Mid-Lane Gods: Ahri, Katarina, Annie
Jungle Gods: Sejuani, Amumu, Volibear, Hecarim
AD Gods: Jinx, Sivir, Graves
Top Lane Gods: Hecarim, Sion, Irelia, Wukong
Support Gods: Leona, Blitzcrank, Janna
God Tier Rising:
God Tier Falling: Sion (Top)
God Tier Falling: Sion (Top)
Mid-Lane: Morgana, Malzahar, Anivia, Cho'Gath, Swain, Xerath, Talon, Diana, Brand, Vel'Koz, Karthus, Wukong, Nidalee, Kennen, Kog'maw (AP), Ziggs, Cassiopeia, Zyra, Heimerdinger
Jungle: Nautilus, Skarner, Nunu, Sion, Rek'Sai, Fiddlesticks, Maokai, Fizz, Gragas, Cho'Gath, Rammus, Dr. Mundo
AD Carry: Ashe, Draven, Corki, Kalista, Miss Fortune, Caitlyn
Top Lane: Fiora, Vladimir, Tryndamere, Malphite, Riven, Renekton, Nasus, Cho'gath, Swain, Kennen, Rumble, Aatrox, Rek'Sai, Pantheon
Support: Sona, Morgana, Brand, Taric, Nami, Zyra, Vel'Koz
Tier 1 Rising: Anivia (Mid), Brand (Support/Mid), Cho'Gath (Mid/Top), Diana (Mid), Dr. Mundo (Jungle), Fizz (Jungle), Gragas (Jungle), Kennen (Mid), Nunu (Jungle), Riven (Top), Skarner (Jungle), Sion (Jungle), Talon
Tier 1 Falling: Kennen (Top), Swain (Top)
Tier 1 Falling: Kennen (Top), Swain (Top)
Mid-Lane: Lissandra, Vladimir, Orianna, Zed, Twisted Fate, Galio, Leblanc, Kayle, Pantheon, Lux, Viktor, Karma, Mordekaiser, Ezreal (AD), Teemo
Jungle: Pantheon, Vi, Zac, Udyr, Xin Zhao, Warwick, Nidalee, Wukong, Shaco, Lee Sin, Diana, Kha'Zix, Kayle, Shyvana, Malphite, Jarvan IV, Rengar, Poppy, Aatrox, Irelia, Karthus, Nasus, Olaf, Master Yi, Trundle
AD Carry: Varus, Ezreal, Quinn, Lucian, Vayne, Kog'Maw
Top Lane: Fizz, Lissandra, Singed, Cassiopeia, Heimerdinger, Darius, Diana, Gnar, Morgana, Maokai, Malzahar, Nidalee, Jarvan IV, Gangplank, Teemo, Jax, Volibear, Warwick, Poppy, Rengar, Dr. Mundo, Zed, Trundle, Udyr, Karma, Garen, Lee Sin, Jayce, Lulu, Shyvana, Kayle, Olaf, Yorick, Xin Zhao, Viktor, Kha'Zix, Quinn, Vi
Support: Thresh, Braum, Soraka, Nautilus, Annie, Karma, Alistar, Lulu, Xerath,
Tier 2 Rising: Galio (Mid), Heimerdinger (Top), Karma (Support), Kog'maw (Mid), Nautilus (Support), Poppy (Top), Twisted Fate (Mid), Udyr (Jungle)
Tier 2 Falling: Annie (Support), Jarvan IV (Jungle), Leblanc (Mid), Master Yi (Jungle), Vi (Jungle), Wukong (Jungle)
Tier 2 Falling: Annie (Support), Jarvan IV (Jungle), Leblanc (Mid), Master Yi (Jungle), Vi (Jungle), Wukong (Jungle)
Mid-Lane: Lulu (AP), Akali, Jayce, Fizz, Syndra, Zilean, Master Yi, Gragas, Jarvan IV, Fiora, Yasuo, Ryze, Urgot, Ezreal (AP), Sona, Riven, Fiddlesticks, Kha'Zix, Sejuani, Malphite, Tristana, Azir, Veigar, Elise
Jungle: Nocturne, Gangplank, Jax, Fiora, Zed, Malzahar, Leona, Elise, Shen, Riven, Darius, Yorick, Evelynn, Tryndamere, Alistar
AD Carry: Twitch, Tristana, Twisted Fate, Kennen
Top Lane: Shen, Akali, Master Yi, Talon, Urgot, Galio, Taric, Ryze, Rammus, Mordekaiser, Gragas, Zac, Alistar, Yasuo, Leblanc, Vayne, Nunu, Elise
Support: Fiddlesticks, Lux, Gragas, Maokai, Volibear, Zilean, Nunu, Kayle, Malphite, Nidalee, Pantheon, Anivia, Teemo, Lee Sin, Gangplank, Veigar, Bard
Tier 3 Rising: Azir (Mid), Elise (Jungle), Ryze (Mid), Veigar (Support)
Tier 3 Falling: Bard (Support), Tristana (AD Carry)
Tier 3 Falling: Bard (Support), Tristana (AD Carry)
Mid-Lane: Kassadin, Soraka, Janna
Jungle: Yasuo, Garen
AD Carry: Urgot
Top Lane: Azir, Kassadin, Soraka
Support: Orianna, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Syndra, Shen, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc
Tier 4 Rising:
Tier 4 Falling:
Tier 4 Falling:
Instructions and Caveats:
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
- This tier list takes data from ALL players; however, since the majority of players fall in the first three tiers, the majority of data points will come from there.
- Win Rates are important in analyzing each champion's strength, but are not the end-all criteria for any champion's position.
- The creator of this list is diamond, so there may be some personal bias towards higher tier play on certain champions.
Champion Explanations
As there's a large number of explanations this time around, I'm separating them into categories:
Mid-Lane:
Mid-Lane:
- Anivia [Tier 1 Mid] - Anivia as a whole is becoming very strong simply through nerfs on other champions. Additionally, her wall happens to be the perfect counter to the all-popular Sion.
- Cho'Gath [Tier 1 Mid] - A very safe champion that's difficult to overcome outright Cho'gath's become a popular pick lately. His ability to sustain through pretty much anything keeps his opponents unable to snowball. Additionally, Rod of Ages is the most gold efficient AP item at the moment, and as everyone knows, happens to be Cho'Gath's favorite core. His ability to catch enemies and stack CCs also synergizes well with tanky support junglers coming back into the mix.
- Katarina [God Tier Mid] - Surprisingly, the nerfs on Katarina have brought her much closer in line with the other mid champions. She's still very snowbally, but can't trade without first thinking about it for a moment.
- Kog'Maw (AP) [Tier 1 Mid] - Although Kog'Maw takes a while to ramp up due to his high mana costs, his late game damage potential is insane. This combined with the fact that late game he can start plugging in extra auto attacks for percentage based damage that scales with AP makes him extremely powerful in the current meta. The only problem is getting to that late game point.
- Ziggs [Tier 1 Mid] - Despite being a relatively small buff on the surface, the mana reduction allows Ziggs to spam his main nuke much more often during mid to late game poke fights. As of the latest data, he's seeing a strong spike in win rate, but we'll see how it pans out over the next few days.
Junglers:
- Alistar [Tier 3 Jungle] - Despite the introduction of Cinderhulk, Alistar still has trouble with his jungle clears and relies on a higher than normal amount of skill for ganking. Prone to making mistakes, Alistar jungle is still very much a skill based jungler with debatable benefit over other champions.
- Dr. Mundo [Tier 1 Jungle] - Dr. Mundo is doing extremely well in the current meta, even with sub-par early game ganks. With the introduction of Cinderhulk, his best asset (his HP) has been amplified. This combined with the fact that his cleaver deals percentage based damage to enemies means that his late game is an absolute monstrosity.
- Elise [Tier 3 Jungle] - Buffs to Elise this patch definitely helped. but she generally does better as more of a tanky burst champion than a straight support jungler. In the current meta, she's still a bit weak unless they nerf Cinderhulk.
- Gragas [Tier 1 Jungle] - As another tanky champion with percentage based damage on his W, Gragas is also loving the Cinderhulk meta.
- Sejuani [God Tier Jungler] - Nerfs to Sejuani actually weren't that bad. Her ultimate is still simple land and her kit is very broken in the current meta.
- Sion [Tier 1 Jungle] - Moving him up despite nerfs just because he may have been placed slightly too low to begin with.
- Skarner [Tier 1 Jungle] - The Cinderhulk meta combined with the usage of Righteous Glory has made Skarner pretty darn powerful again.
- Zac [Tier 2 Jungle] - I know the crowd loves Zac, but I still don't think he's much better than a lot of other junglers at the moment. He's easy to jungle, but doesn't provide enough hard CC or damage to really be considered a priority pick. He does provide a lot of utility in the way of mobility though.
AD Carry
- Quinn [Tier 2 ADC] - The buffs on Quinn were surprisingly nice, and I'd say she's a balanced ADC at this point with decent range and burst.
Top Lane:
- Aatrox [Tier 1 Top] - The new Aatrox buffs are actually very strong, and leave him with more room for error. I think we'll start seeing a lot more of him lately as strong burst AD champions are making their way back to top lane to take on the squishy mages.
- Kennen [Tier 1 Top] - Top lane is very dominated by strong sustaining champions right now. Although Kennen can be very aggressive level 1 and 2, it's very difficult for him to really get snowballing once enemy champions pick up magic resist and sustain. He's still good, just not quite as good top lane in the current meta. His mid lane is very strong though.
- Singed [Tier 2 Top] - Although Singed received a minor buff, his fling isn't bursty or continuous enough to impact his gameplay significantly.
- Sion [God Tier Top] - Similar to Sejuani, not much has changed with the last round of nerfs.
Support:
- Annie [Tier 2 Support] - Despite being a popular LCS pick, playing support Annie in the way that she's usually played (with speed boosts) is very reliant on her teammates to follow up on her initiation. Without building AP, her base damage and sticking power isn't high enough to burst down enemy champions by herself until later on in the game. She's still good, just not quite the powerhouse that she is with an organized team.
- Bard [Tier 3 Support] - Where do I begin on Bard..he had such potential, but his mana costs are simply far too high and his skills are very...awkward. At the moment I'd say he's more of a gimmick champion until further notice, even with his buffs.
- Brand [Tier 1 Support] - Brand support naturally does a ton of base damage. Not only that, but his passive deals an insane 8% of the enemy's maximum health. 8% maximum health in a field dominated by Cinderhulks and HP stackers? Hello new favorite support.
Disclaimer:
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Why'd you drop Vi all the way to midway through tier 2? She's still a solid jungler.
ReplyDeleteGalio top deserves higher. After the buff to his E, he is worthy of at least tier 2, especially when you look at the placement of other AP top laners.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, I think I may have overshot that a bit. I do think she belongs in the balanced tier at the moment though, but at the higher end of the spectrum.
ReplyDeleteSHHHHH, WE CAN'T LET THE ANIVIA SECRET GET OUT
ReplyDeleteGalio doesn't really have the amount of burst other AP top laners has. He's kind of a low range poke mage with supportive CC. he definitely works, but seems to be more of a situational counterpick.
ReplyDeleteI'm being a little too defensive myself ^^; I got into Vi late last year before she hit FOTM status so the fact people eventually caught on that she's good and got her nerfed frustrated me.
ReplyDeleteI guess I can take some joy in that Ahri's back to top on mid without anybody complaining about her this time :D What's so god tier about her?
Other people are starting to say that Viktor's a solid mid, is there a reason you keep him down at balanced?
ReplyDeleteLow range poke? His q outranges Morg's or Kennen's. Supportive CC top laners is the current meta with champs like Morgana and Rumble. As for the burst, he has pretty decent damage if you go AP tank. And what he lacks in burst, he makes up in tankiness. He's like a more defensive version of Vladimir, or a tankier version of Morgana.
ReplyDeleteIf you click on the link where his name is I have a write-up on Viktor that's fairly current.
ReplyDeleteKennen's poke extends farther than it indicates and costs no mana. I don't consider Morgana's Q a poking tool any more than I'd consider Blitzcrank hook a poking tool.
ReplyDeleteI agree Galio isn't overpowered. But with double AP comps in the meta, I think he should be low end of tier 2 at least.
ReplyDeleteHell yeah! Still Sion is godtier, but yeah anivia is a pain to deal with, only stopped my ulti once, maybe it was a noob, but i wasted it so hard :/
ReplyDeleteI mean, the nerf isnt really that hard, i deal slightly less dmg clearing minions with Q and my E with just 30% bonus dmg is still a lot of dmg early.
Where's AP Ezreal?
ReplyDeleteTier 3 Mid.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the Aatrox placement. For me he is one of the safest champs in lane. Got ganked and escaped? Dont worry just hit a minion thrice and youre ready to get ganked again!
ReplyDeleteAlso, does anyone know a way of laning as Nasus against Riven?
made my life hell the other day
You have a better early game. Abuse it.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see comments regarding Zilean with all the new buffs. I don't disagree he's still underpowered - I picked him up recently and can see even with all the buffs he's still underwhelming - but I'd like to see exactly what you think is necessary to make him relevant.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to read his comment again because you just told him Nasus has a better early game than Riven.
ReplyDeleteWhats the rationale for Wukong jungle steady drop slowly into tier 2 while top Wukong stays steady on god tier?
ReplyDeleteHoly moly quinn got a buff, she was already a crazy birdie, especially on top.... the bird form MS is terrifying shit...
ReplyDeleteI would go as far to say that kata is now tier 1.... but yeah she is snowballzy of course. I mean her HP is much lower... and HP Regen. so if you just get lane dominance from lvl 1-6 and rekt katarina, its easy....
I have an easy explanation to this; SUSTAIN. Nuff said, enough said, man... Wukong in the jungle has hard time, too weak sustain too low hp in the new jungle and stuff... And nothing so special, only CC that he has is Ultimate. He is usable but really not that good. tier 2 is good for him
ReplyDeleteAP kog Tier 2 at last! Thanks for listening to the community ssj!
ReplyDeleteI think Xin is deserving of tier 1. You virtually don't lose life through first clear. You can get blue and red and still have quite a bit over 2/3 of your total health, you're now lvl 3, with a gap closer, knock up and pretty high damage. Summing up, what I think makes him so good, is that his ganks basically give easy kills on a silver plate to your moronic laner hahaha. He scales very nicely and can be tanky and still have lots of damage (warrior> mercurial> trynity > randuins/visage > randuins/visage > ruined king to wrap it up). He also has like..no skill cap at all hahaahhaha etc etc...tier 1 :P
ReplyDeleteThe point in that matchup is to care a lot at lvl 3 cause Riven destroy u with her combo. You should play more defensive at that point and try to go near minions only to stack Q and if need use wither on riven for prevent her harass.
ReplyDeletejust rush Randuins. And if she goes in hit her hard! Dont be afraid of fighting, but its better if you wait atleast lvl 6. After 6 and with full tankmasteries you should be safe.
ReplyDeleteNot again...
ReplyDeleteHahahhaha funny, this is just so classic :D! im sorry but this is so funny... everyone new here goes like this :p
ReplyDeleteThey need MUCH higher skill to play good. compare zed to talon... talon is more easier, mechanically and in playstyle too. Thresh compare to Blitzcrank, same again... blitz alot easier to execute, also Leonuh...
No hate, but this is how it is. And this list is meant for around Bronze-GOLD 1 mostly.
LOL No skill cap, you edgy muthafucka :D
ReplyDeleteLet's talk about Maokai and Quinn:
ReplyDeleteMao: Why is he tier 2 top and tier 1 jungle? I mean, yeah Cinderhulk helps him but he overall performs better in the top lane (just like Sion) and is easy&powerful (just like Sion). I think those positions should be switched up.
Quinn: You moved her up at ADC but didn't do anything with her top lane. She is just superior in top and with the (slow) rise of melee autoattackers she is just becoming stronger. In the end she's closer to the top of tier 2 than the bottom at top imo.
Why was Swain Top dropped to Tier 1 from God Tier?
ReplyDeleteAs you can see by the champions above zed. They all excel at sieging and sustained teamfight damage. It's shifting from the bursty assassin meta and into Tank and Siege comps. That's pretty much it.
ReplyDeleteNautilus jungle should switch places with volibear, imo. he's basically freelo right now.
ReplyDeleteNot this again lol.
ReplyDeleteThoughts on evelynn mid ? It is actually very strong...
ReplyDeletemmmm you didn't say anything about Ryze's buffs.... anyway, don't show Anivia's power too much please XD
ReplyDeletePut Ryze bot/mid tier 2 . He is still lategame monster with decent laning. ( Im talking about top :D i dont play mid lane ).
ReplyDeleteI think not...
ReplyDeleteok -.- Faker and SKT just played with Anivia (and UrGod) against jin air and won, he just showed the entire world her power
ReplyDeleteOk so the rationale for Wukong top being God tier? He doesn't have sustain there either.
ReplyDeletetop morgana should be tier 1
ReplyDeleteor maybe im just too good with her (never lost as morg)
I still don't see Morgana jungle, good for me, i can keep spamming/winning easy xD
ReplyDeletebtw i still don't get Wuk god top and blitz god supp. Wuk pick = nasus free farm xD blitz hook is still the same and he didn't got buffs, can't see why he's god
The shift to a tankier and hard engage meta is starting to hurt him. Although he can generally excel against tanks, the lack of an innate sustain until 6 and that he's fairly not hard to gank due to the lack of a reliable escape hurts his laning phase especially with the rise of those tanky and hard engage junglers.
ReplyDeletePlzerino return the Swain to a higher place
ReplyDelete... Jungle you need to clear the buffs etc... you take much damage and you have no sustain absolutely!!! Wukong TOP you only face enemy champion and minions, and he can assassinate enemy top laner/trickle down, wuking has great lvl 1-5 power and lvl 6 is decent too.
ReplyDeleteIn jungle you need to have more HP on your clear... it's too bad sustain
BlitzCrank is awesome support... and easy to play, somewhat... if you are pro grabber. And the grab grab's enemy all the way to you, thresh's hook grabs only some distance, like maybe halfway to you, but you can also travel to the enemy by re-activating, on thresh.
ReplyDeleteBlitzcrank is great and can make big plays... has loads of CC and some dmg too. I don't see how he isn't god tier, especially for bronze-gold 1 ranks... and well maybe if you wanna counterpick nasus, then yeah. and if the wukong is pro, he can cheez lvl 1-3 and kill the nasus and smack the nasus out... running ignite, especially. and buying Brutalizer on first back...
Shouldn't Trundle's ranking go up due to the new jungle tank meta?
ReplyDeleteAlso, Swain can't really deal with the actual tank meta very well due to mana problems until very late in the game (when you have your core items and can afford a Liandry). He is still very strong, just not the best everywhere as he used to be.
ReplyDeleteHey
ReplyDeleteI see that Cho Gath is niw Tier 1 mid and still tier 2 as top?
But isnt he better as top? Or why shall i play him mid? (Im talking about rankeds)
Read the section dedicated to Cho'gath in the author comment.s
ReplyDeleteYou could do that, but then she roams bot for a double kill...
ReplyDeleteYou could add Leona Jungle. With the new Cinderhulk, her clearspeed is decent and her ganks are extremely strong. Played it 4 times in platinum yet and i carried / snowballed 3 of those games.
ReplyDeleteSee, you can pick blitzcrank and be a good support just by being there. I main vel koz as support too (surprise, surprise) and the difference between the difficulty is enormous. It is very risky to approach a blitz because of the constant threat of a hook. The hook is a skillshot but only the fear to get hooked makes the enemybotlane play more carefull.
ReplyDeleteBlitzcrank doesnt have bad matchups as well. Only champs with strong all-in potential have winrates near 50% against him, the only champ who does have a positive winrate is taric. There is the morgana matchup... but you can win that too.
Blitz' cc is one of the best on botlane. Knockup and silence are pretty solid, in combination with his hook they assure you wont get away.
Think about it. Is there another champ who has a 1-hit-death-spell-from-afar in his kit? Nautliusult comes into mind but that is an ult.
Last but not least he is one of those few champs who snowball (zoning for example) hard, BUT can turn around a losing game around too.
I want to add that i agree with matti m, that blitz does damage, too. Dont think that this is needed in his kit but whatever.
And he was buffed. He started climbing to godtier after they lowered his manacosts on q and ult.
I sill think Olaf jungle should be moved up, very strong with either Warrior or Cinderhulk enchants ^_^
ReplyDeleteLol some challenger person uses it it's actually very effective
ReplyDeletei think olaf got some problems:
ReplyDelete-with warrior you can do fine but his ganks are subpar unless the enemy you're ganking got only a weak escape or your partner can stack 2 or more cc,also his scalings are much worse than vi or rek'sai because of the lack of hard cc and having to literally autos enemies to death with only warrior and maybe one other offensive item
-with cinderhulk he can be tremendously tanky but he has got nothing to offer as tank,a common tank should have hard cc/mobility and noticeable damage,olaf's famage without offensive items will fall off pretty hard and his pure damage nuke is not all that hard hitting late game and the lack of mobility or hard cc makes him even worse.
So with an olaf jungler you have to make your team snowball with your gank for guarantee a mid game win but olaf's ganks aren't strong and shaco outmatches him as an offensive early jungle and sejuani or skarner outscale him as tanks and still have a better presence early.
Still good 1v1 potential but a jungler is mostly locking for a good teamfight rather than duel someone in this meta
when cho gath go top probably his team needs a tank/bruiser so cho gath will build tankier and he will be a cc tank with still good presence,also the top laner cho is facing can stack mres and hp and just tank his herass.
ReplyDeletewhen cho go mid means he got a tanky top laner and he can build ap and his enemy laner is probably someone who stacks offensive stats so cho will work very fine,his sustain is very strong and the burst from his spells is very good,level 6 he can all in and kill everyone.
What makes cho mid so strong is also his 2.5 silence that makes him not a laner to underestimate and makes him counter the popular katarina.
Late game with enough hp you can literally kill the adc with one combo and everyone who played cho ap will agree with that while also having a 5 secs aoe knock up with a 100% ap ratio
trundle lacks everykind of utility in teamfight and makes other tanks like sejuani or skarner more appealing choices
ReplyDeleteblitz land a grab and win bot lane,no seriously his grab his way too strong and forces everyone to play really passive even people like graves or corki fear it,only supports with great peel can save their adc from a grab.
ReplyDeleteAlso after a grab retaliation is useless because grab itself does noticeable damage and you're gonna get a knockup resulting in you being cced for years and the blitz's adc very happy to full combo you.
Also super strong during sieges and in a team without too much hard cc he is freelo
wait hecarim's nerf
ReplyDeletei always found that even a fed xin lacks the burst for "kill you in 1 second" and this hurts him imho
ReplyDeletehe works because in bronze silver he works but he lacks the wow factor other junglers have
uhm i'd rather prefer sejuani in my team,similar cc and much more damage with mobility form her q.
ReplyDeleteimho leona works only if your team is strong enough to make her stacks works and alone she lacks damage especially early game
hes high enough for what he does. heal reduction and his stun is really slow so it gives u time to get out of it
ReplyDeleteOlaf, in early to mid game, does too much damage too ignore, as he has probably one of the highest base damages without items. Late game it falls off, but he punishes any immobile carry champs and has no problem getting to them and killing them, since even with one damage item, you can still do a reasonable amount of damage while being very "tanky", thanks to lifesteal. Not to mention, permaslows. I'm not saying he should be god tier, just moved up in tier 2 is all. Him and Skarner are my favourite junglers and it's nice to see Skarner getting love but Olaf deserves it as well
ReplyDeletei find him to the be too kiteble. amumu and sej have hard cc as trundle just runs at people with autos hence why champions like trundle and shyv are tier 2 junglers. u need a good team comp to help trundle be useful in teamfights otherwise he just gets kited by adcs and peeled by supports for days
ReplyDeleteThats not what i asked.
ReplyDeleteIn the comment i can read why Cho is so good in general, but not why hes better at mid.
Thank you for the long answer!
ReplyDeleteSo dies that mean mid lane is better than top for blindpicking and if i have the choice to go mid or top?
What's with Kog mid all of the sudden? Can you give me an article or explanation.
ReplyDeleteSo why is it that Vi is down in tier 2. I know that tank junglers are now becoming popular because of Cinderhulk, but I think that Vi is still very strong and her W can shred the enemy tanks down. Can anyone explain to me why she is so low in the tier list.
ReplyDeleteEh, he explained it? and its good. what else is there to say? =D
ReplyDeleteShe is on 2nd best spot of Tier 2, good spot for her, maybe could go tier 1. The cinderHalk junglers mostly rek her, can ownage her, in teamfight especially, kind of. But she does have some tank shredder
ReplyDeleteIf Brand support is being moved up due to the burn, why isn't he being moved up mid?
ReplyDeleteIf you're better at it then yes.
ReplyDeleteOk, i know that the warrior enchantment is preferred on Vi but wouldn't cinderhulk benefit Vi also due to her passive which gives her a 10% shield(of her health) when she uses an ability . And if so, wouldnt she be up with the other tank junglers too? I am just wondering if cinderhulk simply is not good on Vi or if people have not tried it on her.
ReplyDeleteBrand mid did move up, you can see the movements using the checkbox in the toolkit section.
ReplyDeletei dont see much talk about adcs: who has a better late game corki or caitlyn? in your guys opinion
ReplyDeleteAnd what if Im good at both :D?
ReplyDeleteCaitlyn - not even close. Corki falls off really hard late game, and Cait resurges after mid game.
ReplyDeleteThis is a petition to put Galio top into bottom Tier 2.
ReplyDeletecan u plz expain trist into tier 3... do u think they should nerf irelia harder?
ReplyDeleteHe asked why is he NOT moving up in mid? :p
ReplyDeletecare to explain why swain got moved down from god tier?
ReplyDeleteCan someone please explain whats wrong with Kassadin and why he is tier 4? Did they nerf him that bad? *This is an honest question not sarcastic*
ReplyDeleteYep, true, Interesting =)!!!! If you would build Vi tank 5 items then it could work actually and HP items
ReplyDeleteYeah they did but he got buffed in the recent patches again and he is like tier 3 maybe now.... MAYBE
ReplyDeleteNo, not really hard.... but somewhat hard.
ReplyDelete@SSJSuntastic How hard do you think the w percent health active being moved to passive DoT will affect ad fizz? Will it be a hard nerf? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteIt will kill it entirely. :D
ReplyDeleteis a hard nerf for ad fizz,now that's it is a dot atk spd now is even bad because you will just refresh the %hp damage and deal less damage
ReplyDeletecho does well both top and mid and you can play him even jungle.
ReplyDeletecho top is just a tank while cho mid is an impressive damage dealer while still being tanky so mid is a bit preferred than top where he often forces a farm lane and nothing more
early mid game his damage is high but is cc are not,if you miss an axe you're useless unless you use chilling smite,ghost,flashor whatever.
ReplyDeletehis lifesteal from w alone isn't enough for make him very tanky like maybe a ww or an aatrox.
There are worse jungler than him but he's far from being a considerable pick with all those skarners,sejuani ecc...
Yeah EXPLAIN ! I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS CHAMP IS FREELO
ReplyDeleteI tought that, but his winrate isn't raising for an unknown reason. But winrate doesn't mean everything
ReplyDeleteReally good explanation of Grab and the bread n butter Q+E combo :D
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that if you build Vi almost full-tank you lack damage (obviously). You may ask why lacking damage is such a problem because she has % damage on her W as well as some armour penetration. The reason to that is the very simple fact of her not being able to do much besides ult and then just be a big piece of meat, like Garen. Your damage is so low the enemy might as well just ignore you. But going the standard damage build is much more beneficial. Her AD scalings are insanely good and allow you to be able to practically burst the enemy ADC with R-AA-E-AA/Q.
ReplyDeleteSo basically she overall performs better with a lot of offensive items and, well somewhere around 2 defensive. An example build would be boots, warrior enchantment, triforce, black cleaver, banshee's, randuin's. She doesn't need a lot of tank stats in the first place which is why they aren't beneficial.
Just because someone in challenger does good with Evelynn mid it doesn't mean it's strong for everyone else. It's something possible, but he probably mastered it almost to perfection. And again, he's challenger, players in lower elo may have a lot of trouble performing as good. Yes, he does play against other challenger players, but it's not about them being the same, it's mostly about them not knowing how exactly to play against such an untraditional pick.
ReplyDeleteSimply put: players in higher elo don't know how exactly you're supposed to play against her, players in lower elo don't know how exactly you're supposed to play her.
I think riot should nerf Riven
ReplyDeleteI mean yeah ok they are some """""""skillcap"""""""" but pls if you call a ult with 280% AD ratio on dmg max (I know it's happen when we're low HP) but this is not balance
A shield combine with a dash and the total with 100% AD ratio this is not balanced ...
A spell which have low cooldown and start at the first cast, broken as hell
So pls, riot, NERF FUCKING RIVEN.
NOOOO. My freelo for the past few months is now know to all </3
ReplyDeleteI think the reliability of his Q is pretty low.
ReplyDeleteYeah it feels great to land an AoE stun, I think for the time being it is just a bit too hard to land consistently.
What Matti is saying is half of the answer.
ReplyDeleteI think the other half of the issue is Cinderhulk which has brought in tanky junglers, where most Wukongs want to run Warrior and mostly damage items.
Is he worth buying?
ReplyDeleteIs Gragas jungle worth it to learn? And what makes him a tier 2 jungler and not tier 1; high skill cap, better alternatives, etc?
ReplyDeleteZiggs oh boy oh boy, back to spamming my favourite yordle
ReplyDeleteTough early clears (but circumvented by the jungle damage nerf) somewhat. Ganks aren't amazing pretty 6 but are doable as neither his damage nor his 2v2 are great.
ReplyDeleteBut post 6 is fantastic, it's just that other jugglers have a comparable late game to a better early game.
I stand by that Gragas is at his best in support.
Which one do you think is the ,,strongest''?
ReplyDeleteZiggs
Xerath
Vel'Koz
They are similar but which one is the best and why?
Well jungle fizz got moved up.
ReplyDeleteI think fizz won't die but will stay roughly where he is. Even pretty tweaks ad fizz was actually decent and even now ad fizz is in a buffed state compared to that. Now that we know ad fizz's actual power now that we've examined it I reckon he'd jump up to tier 1 because of that BUT will be brought down to low end t2 because of nerds.
Stupid riot. We like our fish as is leave him alone and nerf other superior ap assassins. Like you know katakana and leblanc
I've already gave my opinion about kassa (he should be tier 3), even after his nerfs.
ReplyDeleteI dont think so. You cant win the lane under normal conditions and have to fight hard in lane to stay relevant. Maybe someone will find out a tanky max cdr build which changes his playstyle, right now he isnt viable. Reach lategame every single game and you got yourself a deal, but kassadin lacks raw power overall, his damage is too low to assassinate someone properly.
ReplyDeleteHe is fun, but too weak at the moment.
ziggs is good after lowering manacost on Q, vel'koz is shit.
ReplyDeletein some low leagues it will work, but on higher u'll see gray screen every time u come to lane/fight.
xerath is good, really good. Why u're choosing between these?
I'm surprised at how little Sejuani's nerf affected her. She's still very strong but I was expecting Amumu to take her place.
ReplyDeletevelkoz is not shiit ziggs i actually the weakest in that list
ReplyDeletexerath is also weak judging by everyone got used to his skills and it became easy to dodge his ult
I can hardly agree with Tristana as ADC being put in the same tier with Kennen and TF. Though those 2 have bigger AS per lvl scale Tristana has great AS steroid and great range in the late game. Not to mention how well she destroys towers.
ReplyDeleteTaking the time out of my day to ask myself why I'm not playing Brand more.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but Trist is Tier 3 and those 2 should be Tier 4.
ReplyDeleteAhh. Missed that. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI think it's just I'm a really good Evelynn player but I keep easily winning games with her. The build is as follows.
ReplyDeleteAP jungle item. Mercs or Tabi into Hexdrinker, if winning Blade of Ruined King or Randuins if unconfident, then go into the other, then going to Banshees. It's crazy I've been getting great results with her at high Silver elo. The damage is good, her survivability is good and with the BOTRK + Ult it's hard for people to escape. I accept her winrate is low so I do not contest her position, I just think she is secretly strong. (I personally also feel the winrate is due to people either building weird or wrong, I believe this is her single strongest build and the safest as well. People going weird AP builds in ranked and losing may be a factor)
I know, right... thinking hard about reasons to not play brand, right now.... uhm.... ehh.... ahh.... ehm...
ReplyDeleteWhat about Zilean support? I don't have mana problems now, i play him like Janna and goes well
ReplyDeleteShes not a bad champ =)
ReplyDeleteSame here. Ya know, when after this sort of NOT EVEN MINOR! Nerfs, the champ is still borderline OP.... Strongest Jungler at the moment.... Just makes you regret you didnt abuse her before the nerfs, when she was... out of this world, considering she is still OP after the nerfs =D!
ReplyDeleteShe is insane..,
Hard compared to others ADCs because he doesn't rely on Auto attacks to do most of his damage. He's still strong late game though
ReplyDeleteWhy was swain dropped from god tier top in solo queue? I can still dominate literally every other top laner and be a huge force by the mid game on him
ReplyDeleteyeah exactly. he is burst oriented, just bursts with the trinity forces ''next basic attack'' thing (Sheen...), in combination with ability rotating. And has a great escape too.
ReplyDeleteWell, there is that huge burst.... wait..... uh.... that CC.... no..... OH Yeah!!! his great AoE
ReplyDeleteDAMNIT!!!!! nope couldn't find A GOOD reason not to
True, urgot can't be t3 adc (not that he should be) but they can be??? haha annie makes a better adc then kennen with that AA range plus her own cc and the thornmail (e) for trading
ReplyDeleteVel'koz is strongest of the three, with xerath right behind and ziggs in last place,though they are all pretty good
ReplyDeleteDepends what level you play at. If you can rely on ur team and u just need to siege xerath is the best which is why at diamond and above ull see him most of the time. At low elo id go velkoz, much easier to get yourself fed and impact teamfights.
ReplyDeleteIf you werent already a gragas player or planning on picking him up ....no. Hes aiight but not like how if u werent playing sej u needed to asap.
ReplyDeleteAll adcs have decent late games simply due to the fact that they ARE a carry...but caitlyn has the worst late game of any adc I can think of right now.
ReplyDeleteCorki late game is much stronger than cait. His autos do partial true damage. No insult meant but do yall not play adc? Cait is common knowledge the worst scaling carry cauze of how strong her lane is.
ReplyDeleteThe only prob with olaf jungle is getting a good feel for when to stay in. He offers his highest strengths when he is close to death and thats when most noob players are gonna stop fighting turn to run and die. Watch odd ones olaf almost every kill and gank he does he looks like hes about to die.
ReplyDeleteSoooo.... quinn scales better as adc than cait??? urgot too??? Kennen??? TF???
ReplyDeletetwo are not really meant as ADC's but they are in the list so i figured what the hell, Cait's scaling isn't that bad, after all all adc's just stack crits and AS (well except those oddball triforce adc's)
Wukong jung builds tank because he doesn't have the money to do assasin wuk. Tank wukong is weak....assassin wukong is oppressive.
ReplyDeleteHes guessing dude wukong doesnt have big issues with sustain in the jungle its the difference in build paths. The number 1 wuk in NA Allorim has stated many times he hates wuk jung cause you cant get the damage items necessary.
ReplyDeleteDo you even play wuk man? The guy wants a serious answer not you grasping at straws.
ReplyDeleteScrew all these new picks, Darius is a god tier top laner, only problem he has are mana costs, which are being fixed in the PBE and his zero mobility. A fair trade for someone who can 1v5 and still win.
ReplyDeleteuhm...
ReplyDeleteMaster of Metal, great arguments!!!
ReplyDeletelacking CC for a jungler
ReplyDeletethe nerfs has killed her awsome playstyle
but she's not bad now
Yes, I do. and I've also seen many wukings.
ReplyDeleteI see. It just stood out to me that Gragas was picked quite frequently instead of Sejuani during recent LCS matches.
ReplyDeleteI really like to play tanky junglers. My current jungling pool consists of Nunu, Sion and Amumu. Would Gragas make a nice addition to that? I don't really like Sejuani.
ALLAHU AKBAR!
ReplyDeletenaw trist takes really long to ramp up and the payoff isnt even that good. compare her to graves whos consistently strong throughout the game and scales well.
ReplyDeletegraves and many other adcs are much easier to snowball with than a trist
i think the return of hypertanks in the jungle hurt his ability to kill everybody since he can be locked down by them. u dont have to beleive me but swain excels against squishies and bruisers. but hypertanks can soak up his damage and shut him down. hes still insanely strong but i think the meta change hurt him a bit teamfight wise
ReplyDeleteI think you should move Rammus up a bit. Cinderhulk has good syergy with him and his reduced q cost has provided some noticeable help. Though not a the top of Tier 1 I think he'd at least beat Maokai. Also I think you might be overselling Mundo just a bit but thats just me.
ReplyDeletewell tristana is very weak now,she gave up her awesome late game for a bit better early game.
ReplyDeleteHer laning phase feel too clunky to play and like twitch she gets bullied by burst damage.
at least tf and kennen got their fair amount of cc for make them viable adc,tristana is just and adc who attacks a bit faster from a bit higher range with 2 escapes
a fed hecarim can still 1v5 :D
ReplyDeleteOh ok, I didn't know the elo this was intended for. Thx mate :D
ReplyDeletebut trundle does have his slow (e), he can slow, and steal attack damage from his target with his q, and his ult steals armor and MR from his target.
ReplyDeleteyou have to realize that this chart also takes into consideration win-rates, and after a little bit of research i found out his win rate has dropped quite a bit.
ReplyDeleteurgoD can 1v5 penta. (yes im serious, oh wait am I?) :P
ReplyDeleteXerath
ReplyDeleteI think he aint overselling Doctor Mundo, personally. He fully deserves tier 1... god damn I shit my pants when cinderhalk mundo in the jungle that gets gold income such as fed. Too tanky, too tanky... doesnt take damage... Ultimate, boom... big Q damage... boom, almost dead, gets ult again. boom boom, mundo goes where he pleases... GG WP too tanky. :D
ReplyDeleteI agree about rammus, could move a little, and better than maokai imho
good point, but a well placed w and q can help with the kiting. But i guess since the meta is fairly new, people have yet to master him.
ReplyDeleteDarius god tier?? lol
ReplyDeleteXerath is not better than Vel'Koz, however Xerath is much simpler.
ReplyDeleteI've been starting to play very aggressive as jungler, the counterjungle in recent patches are very easy to do. Especially if you are a tank who has more damage than the enemy (For example, Sejuani vs Mundo), or if you start in red. I am not talking about steal buffs, I talking about kill enemy jungler.
ReplyDeleteIf you do not depend on your allies to do counterjungle, it is a powerful tool to snowball and win. Also, if you kill the enemy jungler your team will not have ganks and you will reduce the probability of enemy snowball in your game.
What do you mean with "I play him like Janna"?
ReplyDeleteI play her as AP assassin, full AP, I also play her with your build. The problem is that she cannot be a initiatior in this meta... Well, I like how is she, for now he has given me very good results in diamond.
ReplyDeleteOpinion that is most in line with my own. I am biased towards vel'koz so i wanted to hear more people arguing about the big 3 pokemages (i think lux and AP kog have a different playstyle so i didnt include them).
ReplyDeleteThanks to everyone!
I've had somewhat nice success on Aatrox, he's definitely strongish again, but still somewhat suffers from the fighter's syndrome: Build damage and you're too squishy, build tank and you hardly deal damage
ReplyDeleteA pick i never see is ap corki. I cant speak for him like i did for AP kog'maw. So i really dont know where he stands. Seems to synergize with ludens echo and\or liandrys. I wonder if he could receive a place somewhere in the midlanesection. I would like to hear if he is worth it a slot in my offmetapool and how he works.
ReplyDeleteWhoops, I got them around the wrong way.
ReplyDeletePassive lane
ReplyDeleteIt saddens me that the Nocturne buff on his ult cooldown was a good.. but it didn't do much for him... Most jglers still do better than him
ReplyDeleteYorick to tier 1 top lane
ReplyDeleteblight crystal is the best skin in the game!
ReplyDeleteStill no Urgot jungle?
ReplyDeleteWhy's Wukong still god tier top?
ReplyDeleteKassa works with specific teamcomps.
ReplyDeletehmmm garen is still t2...
ReplyDeletegaren is able to shut down almost all top champions include vlad, hec, mord and gnar... except some adc, diana, teemo and ken... they are very difficult to deal but possible...
just note that late hypercarry champion like nasus, yi, vei, trist, etc... are in pain the ass to deal...
well darius is very strong bully but very weak against ranger and teamfight....
ReplyDeleteThen go mid :)
ReplyDeleteIf your saying this because you like him, Kassadin can also 1 v 5 th entire team and win. even Soraka can
ReplyDeleteHe is countered a lot by Sion and Heca, which are super popular picks.
ReplyDeleteDo you guys think that maining an off meta pick eg Diana top or something like that is good?
ReplyDeleteAlso which of these top laners do you think are worth maining
Aatrox
Darius
Singed
Nasus
Mundo
Diana
Liss
Pick 2 or 3
Aatrox - Good sustain , decent escape. (I think he is worth to main)
ReplyDeleteDarius - Good lane bully , can carry games but he has no escape. (He is good in low elo)
Singed - Fun to play :D ( Worth maining)
Nasus - Boring to play ( Not worth )
Mundo - Insane tank late game ( If you like tanks play him )
Diana - i like her more in the middle / jungle. ( idk )
Liss - good mage ( worth)
Bonus : Cho Gath - You can play him mid/top/jungle/support :D I like playing him.
Maining an off-meta or a nonpopular champion is a good idea. Because your champion won't be picked or banned, and can lead to some surprise power vs some opponents.
ReplyDeleteOut of the ones you listed my 3 That are worth maining are:
Nasus- most games are long, and esp at lower elos he can stack up easily. Also teaches you the importance of farming.
Lissandra- Very powerful mage still and has amazing utility to backup her damage, or even if behind, to compliment her team.
Diana- very strong and has great trades w/ surprise damage.
cuz his ult is so amazing and it's easy to still be useful even if you don't win lane.
ReplyDeletea fed anything can technically 1v5, if they f up or if you are doublelift and you lift.
ReplyDeletessj realizes the freelo and decides to hide it.
ReplyDeleteand is it just me or do a find it kinda hard to clear waves without ulti?
MOBILITY, FOUNDＩ... oh wait, hes a mage.
ReplyDeletelets say, i am not on fire today and can't take the heat.
*kill me*
u secretly urgod or somethin?
ReplyDeletei kinda disagree with the no damage part, as you only need a botrk, but you are pretty spot on with the weakness.
ReplyDeletea good trundle is really hard to kite if you are not someone with vayne mobility and that damage, still it is a troll.
ReplyDeleteshots fired.
AD Corki mid is just better than AP.
ReplyDeleteJust wondering... why is Lee only T2 Jungler?
ReplyDeleteCoz he's balanced (the same as Thresh and Zed).
ReplyDeleteThis is most likely true but not very helpfull.
ReplyDeleteFor winning purposes i would go with nasus (almost never play him because i think his playstyle is disgusting).
ReplyDeleteFor eventual mainchamps i would go with aatrox and singed. Both are very strong and they profit from knowledge of the champs. To know where aatrox' limits are is key and will assure you lanedominance and to learn singeds proxyfarming and crazy playstyle overall will confront your enemys with unusual situations they might not be confortable with.
As for offmetapicks... yeah some are worth it. My favourite ones are vel koz supp (isnt offmeta anymore) and AP kog.
For the pick to work think about why it could potentially be good in the first place.
How about Jax?
ReplyDeleteVel'koz is the strongets of those 3, but his skillcap is far ahead from the other 2. The only reason for Xerath to be "ahead" is he is much more simpler to play, but in this tank-meta of today, Vel'kox true damage goes MUCH ahead.
ReplyDeleteMostly because the meta is shifting again to tanks in the toplane and jungle and high poke mages in the midlane, and Swain isn't very strong against neither of them in general. Lategame with a Liandry you can solve that problem, but swain is one of those champs who need to snowball from the start or he will have a really big problem to comeback.
ReplyDeleteHigh range, %HP based damage in a tank meta, "nerfs" to assassins = Kog'maw really strong.
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me? Mundo tier 1 jungle? he's like an automatic freelo for the enemy team. How can he be tier 1?
ReplyDeleteThe comments for Cho'gath are in the "Mid Lane" section, so that's the explanation you need.
ReplyDeletebut seriously though he's like shyvana with no ult and we already know that shyvana is shyte.
ReplyDeleteaatrox is not good for solo Q
ReplyDeleteu will need a team that knows how to follow up in TF
Because this list is targeted more towards Bronze-Plat. Lee has an extremely high skill cap, and thus isn't suited towards the lower elo, hence why Thresh and Zed aren't higher. When mastered, he's probably one of the best junglers in game, but usually it's Master and Challenger players that master their players; a very small percentage of the community.
ReplyDeleteSinged all day. Best late game tank in the game, counters riven, jax, gayren, etc, easy to farm, unkillable at 25 minutes usually
ReplyDeleteThen I don't really care for the rest of these, my other tops are Wukong and Akali.
kayne did triple 1v3 so why not XD
ReplyDelete