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SEASON 4 - PATCH 4.16 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
SEASON 4 UPDATE
SEASON 4 UPDATE
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
I've got a ton of new developments for the tier lists in the pipeline, but since it's been a busy few days, I figured we're probably better off putting together this tier list first, then adding in whatever goodies I have in store for you guys at a later date.
I've also decided to keep some of my obscure meta picks out of god tier (you may see them pop up in other posts on the site as "underdog" highlight champions.) This list is to help you guys and not to just to voice my opinion after all. With that in mind I'm shifting around some of the placements.
Anyway, without further ado let's jump into the list.
Patch 4.16 Summary
Updates:BuffsNerfs: Cassiopeia
- 9/18: Added jungle Gragas
- 9/20: Lee jungle moved up a little, Nocturne moved up
- 9/22: Gnar moved back up to Tier 1
- Added Fizz jungle
- 9/24: Janna moved to God tier
Search for a champion:
God Tier [Highest Influence]:
Mid-Lane Gods: Talon, Ahri
Jungle Gods: Amumu, Rammus, Wukong, Kha'Zix, Jarvan IV, Maokai, Warwick, Fiddlesticks, Vi
AD Gods: Tristana, Lucian, Corki, Jinx
Top Lane Gods: Wukong, Ryze, Maokai, Fiora
Support Gods: Morgana, Janna, Leona, Blitzcrank
Tier 1 [Strong/Preferred Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Katarina, Lux, Fizz, Swain, Akali, Vel'Koz, Malzahar, Ziggs, Galio, Brand, Zyra, Xerath, Syndra, Zilean, Anivia, Morgana, Heimerdinger, Orianna, Wukong
Jungle: Sejuani, Pantheon, Skarner, Nunu
AD Carry: Draven, Miss Fortune, Caitlyn
Top Lane: Rumble, Nidalee, Swain, Warwick, Lulu, Irelia, Akali, Malphite, Jarvan IV, Tryndamere, Gnar, Yorick, Singed, Teemo, Lissandra, Pantheon
Support: Sona, Nami, Vel'Koz, Braum, Zyra
Tier 2 [Viable/Balanced Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Twisted Fate, Yasuo, Diana, Lissandra, Pantheon, Lulu (AP), Annie, Viktor, Kayle, Karma, Zed, Fiora, Karthus, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Teemo, Ryze, Jayce
Jungle: Nautilus, Master Yi, Lee Sin, Volibear, Udyr, Xin Zhao, Rengar, Kayle, Jax, Shaco, Zac, Cho'Gath, Nocturne, Tryndamere, Aatrox, Olaf, Malphite, Dr. Mundo, Nasus, Trundle, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Kog'Maw, Vayne, Graves, Sivir, Ashe, Varus,
Top Lane: Kennen, Riven, Nasus, Heimerdinger, Volibear, Yasuo, Alistar, Rengar, Jax, Renekton, Dr. Mundo, Trundle, Darius, Aatrox, Udyr, Karma, Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, Shyvana, Kayle, Cho'gath, Vladimir, Olaf, Gangplank, Xin Zhao, Viktor, Poppy, Quinn, Vi, Jayce, Zed
Support: Thresh, Alistar, Lulu, Xerath, Zilean, Annie, Karma, Taric, Fiddlesticks
Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
Mid-Lane: Sion, Kassadin, Kennen, Gragas, Veigar, Leblanc, Nidalee (AP), Kha'Zix, Riven, Tristana, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks, Kog'maw, Ezreal (AP), Elise
Jungle: Hecarim, Evelynn, Leona, Elise, Shyvana, Shen, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Gragas, Riven, Poppy, Darius, Fizz
AD Carry: Ezreal, Quinn, Twitch, Twisted Fate, Kennen
Top Lane: Shen, Garen, Gragas, Master Yi, Zac, Talon, Elise, Mordekaiser, Sion, Vayne, Nunu, Galio
Support: Volibear, Nautilus, Lux, Gragas, Maokai, Nunu, Kayle, Soraka, Teemo, Malphite, Anivia, Syndra, Veigar, Gangplank
Tier 4 [Low Benefits for Effort Used]:
Mid-Lane: Urgot, Cassiopeia, Soraka, Janna
Jungle: Gangplank, Garen, Blitzcrank
AD Carry: Urgot
Top Lane: Soraka, Urgot
Support: Nidalee, Orianna, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Shen, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
- This tier list takes data from ALL players; however, since the majority of players fall in the first three tiers, the majority of data points will come from there.
- Win Rates are important in analyzing each champion's strength, but are not the end-all criteria for any champion's position.
- The creator of this list is diamond, so there may be some personal bias towards higher tier play on certain champions.
Champion Explanations
- Ahri [God Tier Mid] - Ahri's been continuously on the rise as champion after champion gets nerfed, especially after Riot gave her some lovin' in Patch 4.12. She deals some very solid damage now, even if you miss a few of her skills.
- Caitlyn [Tier 1 ADC] - Despite the infatuation with Caitlyn as a simple champion that's an early lane bully, even if she does well early her late game is underwhelming without a strong team built up around her. Welcome to solo queue.
- Cassiopeia [Tier 4 Mid] - Not sure what Riot did to her, but she's dropped to rock bottom on the win rate scale. Will keep an eye out for a possible hotfix. She may also be more viable top.
- Corki [God Tier ADC] - Corki's actually fairly strong now with nerfs around the board to other AD carries and synergizes very well with popular team compositions and supports. He's versatile and most importantly does well against champions like Tristana and Lucian.
- Gnar [Tier 2 Top] - Still getting mixed reviews on Gnar, seems fairly balanced based on individual player skill.
- Kha'Zix [God Tier Jungle] - Kha'zix will be nerfed relatively soon, but it's no surprise that he's fairly strong right now with the current builds. He also creates a strong presence in solo queue where it's easy to get the full effect of his passive.
- Lux [Tier 1 Mid] - Lux's win rate as been on the rise, and despite the fact that she's a squishy mage, her shield also gives her strong turnaround potential against diving assassins.
- Nasus [Tier 2 Top] - Nasus is simply not as influential as he used to be as Lucian and Tristana replaced Caitlyn and Vayne as the most popular AD carries.
- Twisted Fate [Tier 2 Mid] - Now that the FOTM of twisted fate has fallen out of favor, maybe I'll get less comments on moving him up ;P. He's balanced...annoying yes, but balanced.
- Vel'koz [Tier 1 Support] - Vel'koz's base damage is simply through the roof right now, and with his true damage he scales very well into late game, even without magic penetration items stacked up quite as much as a mid laner. He's one of those champions where if your AD carry is getting attacked, he can generally outburst both the enemy ADC and support if he's in position. His knockup also mitigates the enemy damage as well.
- Wukong [God Tier Top] - Wukong is one of the few top lane champions that has the ability to do well in lane, and even if he goes even or negative, have a huge impact on the rest of the game via his amazing teamfighting ability. With the stagnant nature of top lane right now, this makes him ideal for solo queue purposes.
- Wukong [Tier 1 Mid] - Although Wukong has better matchups mid and gives him higher roaming/snowballing potential from this location, in order to have a high margin for error with Wukong mid you'll need to have some sort of long range waveclear, which is generally the job for the AP mid laner. Without having one, this means that your team is much more reliant on all-ins. While he works very well while ahead, if you fall behind it creates a very stressful situation.
- Junglers [Jungle] - As you've no doubt noticed, the number of God Tier junglers compared to Tier 1 and Tier 2 is very unbalanced. The reason for this is that many junglers are simply far and away superior to other junglers, so far that the only way to do well against them is with another God Tier jungler. There are some junglers that counter and/or just simply do very well against them directly that are in Tier 1, and Tier 2 junglers impact that game in a good way, but just simply don't have as much game impact as God Tier junglers.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for champion selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
Maybe I should have released this closer to prime time instead of at 2 AM...well at least you guys will have a pleasant surprise in the morning :)
ReplyDeleteNo wukong explanation? =P do it before everyones awake!
ReplyDeleteTalon's getting nerfed finally. He will no longer have his silence and it's being changed to a slow. Better play him while you can before next patch.
ReplyDeleteZed, in my opinon, is getting stronger with nerfs also. His ability to poke in top lane or the mid lane makes him a strong pick for laning phase. In team fights, he can normally ult right to the person he chooses but if the other team has any cc you can almost always say goodbye to zed unless he can manage to go back to his shadow somehow. Would like to know if you all feel the same way. Been playing him a lot and I have been winning most lanes.
ReplyDeleteRiot seems to be phasing out the silence mechanic. I wasn't happy when they removed Leblanc's silence while giving her nothing in return, and I'm sure not happy about Talon losing that mechanic either. On PBE, they're reworking Viktor and the silence on his ultimate is gone too. A silence is strong, but phasing it out because of some lack of counter-play is dumb. Riot needs to find a different solution.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to Swain?
ReplyDeleteYeah, what's with the Swain Train?
ReplyDeleteAnd a few months later, Riot (may possibly) declares nerfs to Ahri again. Lel. Knew this would happen, I wonder when they would ever realize Riot nerfing doesn't change a thing. It's never the champions to begin with, it's time Riot took a serious look at itemization + masteries. S4 was nothing but fluctuation.
ReplyDeleteI actually think Kha'Zix is the only God Tier jungler right now, but maybe that's only on high ELO. Junglers are in such a bad place this patch because riot keeps trying to get people to play supportive junglers, but nerfing everyone else is not the right way to do it.
ReplyDeleteThat said, WALL OF TEXT incoming: (a.k.a. why junglers are in a bad spot)
Riot started nerfing aggressive junglers because Sejuani, Nautilus and Amumu can't win in a 2v2 early gank. Tank junglers need items to be effective, so aggresive ones like Lee Sin and Kha Zix can snowball the lanes before that happens, and nerfing that early pressure seemed like a good idea, if it wasn't for the fact that those 'week early' champions can still get bursted down by the laner on a level 3/4 gank, giving them double buffs. Changing the jungler item was good and all, but the %bonus health will still only be effective when you have items.
It's kind of a weird state to be in: 'the first item i buy is only effective if i have other items', but that's what happened. And now, support-ish jungler can't really be in god tier, since their early is week and can be abused even by laners, and the only aggresive jungler that is "pretty strong" is Kha'Zix. He can win any 1v1 and have good ganks both before and after level 6. If his nerf come through (which it probably will), i guess the picks will be Amumu, Vi and J4, but they can't really carry a game like junglers want to be able to.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to blame riot for making bad decisions. The buffs on Maokai were pretty great, problem is people started to run him top instead, and that's not really Riot's fault. All i'm saying is, giving people 'reasons to play Rammus' is better than giving them 'no reason to play anything else'. The biggest issue here is: those changes (to maokai and to Spirit of the Ancient Golem) would help those tanky champions last season, when top lane was full of fighters (Jax, Renekton, Irelia) instead of tanks (Alistar, Maokai), and reverting to last season wouldn't be healthy either. It will be a long way to a balanced life in the jungle, but i'm pretty sure nerfing everyone that's strong is not a good idea.
If anyone has a opinion on this, please let me know, i'd love to discuss these things.
tl;dr: read the first paragraph, the rest i'm just explaining my point
Hi! I'm wondering why nunu is tier 3 top lane. I think he should be tier 1 and the reasons are he's easy to play, a monster lane bully to melee matchups and does fine against ranged champs too, and he scales really well into the mid-late game. There's never a point in the game that I feel weak with him and he's always useful in teamfights. I'd like to hear you thoughts on it, I haven't played it for very long so if there are some major flaws with nunu top I haven't found them yet.
ReplyDeleteI read a discussion between a Riot employee and a gamer such as yourself. Long story short, Riot is going to be making some changes to Leblanc very soon to bring her back up to par.
ReplyDeleteNunu has a number of crucial weaknesses which deem him quite vulnerable to seasoned players in top lane:
ReplyDelete- unable to clear waves
- vulnerable to all-ins
- high mana consumption early on means he isn't really sustainable
Later on, Nunu generally gets outscaled when outside of a 1v1 laning context. Generally speaking:
- Unable to dive carries
- No form of strong initiation
- No hard CC
As a whole, Nunu scales into a utility and peel role, which is incongruent with that of most top lanes (exception of Yorick who is in a similar place i.e. strong lane, utility late game).
There's a whole article on ROG about the discussion of why junglers are in a bad spot. You should go check it out.
ReplyDeleteGood to know, i will check that. Thanks for the info
ReplyDeletehmm... nasus as t2? i dont think so... he should be t1 because he can farm top very well... even against teemo, pan, singed and other...
ReplyDeleteafter farming well with 10% cdr early (from masteries and runes) and he becomes into a monstrous nasus that top champion cant stop anymore...
i usually have 150 at 10mins, and double that... 300 at 20mins.. and then... 600 at 40mins...
only weakness of nasus is kited... but can protect adc and apc very well... you still have 70% chance to comeback...
Wukong is Highlighted but no explanation?
ReplyDeleteMistakes were made
ReplyDeleteWhat's the problem with high tier 1? :s I still think he can be a god, but high tier 1 is pretty much the same
ReplyDeleteIf riot nerf some champions, other champions can become a monster since other champs are nerfed. For example, most of the assassin's are nerfed, only ones aren't are: Katarina and Talon (Could be Ahri but she was buffed recently) they weren't touched so that means they will be VERY strong since other assassin's are nerfed.
ReplyDeleteAnother one is importantly, Junglers. The early game champs like Elise and Lee sin are nerfed. Since they are nerfed, late game champions like: Wukong, Fiddlesticks, Amumu, Rammus etc. are really strong because the early champions are nerfed.
Not too long ago, Renekton was God of top lane, but he got nerfed, so Jax took his place. BUT, Jax got nerfed, so who's gonna be the next champ?
So pretty much, nerfing champions won't do any good, it'll just make other champions come out of hiding and make a rampage. Riot KNOWS this but they still do it, without knowing what will happen after a certain champion is nerfed.
The tier is based on both the overall champion's skill but also on the ease of play or player skill required to play the champion. While Zed in a pro player's hands can be amazing, in the average player who doesn't understand how to use the shadows to their full extent he's balanced. Plus if you like playing a champion that you think is strong but other people don't, is that really a bad thing? Doesn't that mean you get to play them a little more?
ReplyDeleteAren't they giving Soraka an AoE silence in her rework?
ReplyDeleteI don't belive that Renek and Jax filled the same nieche of top laner
ReplyDeletelate game you just throw ball hoping on killing someone
ReplyDeletetalon's nerfs incoming,his e no longer silences but slows for 99% for 0,1 second
ReplyDeletepretty garbage,he can't even interrupt channeled
best junglers are late game junglers cause they usually have an ulti that can change the tides of every fight,i don't care if with lee sin or elise you get 4 kills on amumu jungler and stole all his camps cause he can just build tanky throw a good ult and wreck your team (just a bit exaggerated example)
ReplyDeleteyou still won't give up about keeping vi as a god tier jungler? 9 champs in god tier and 4 in tier 1 you need to think it out ssj :p
ReplyDeletetalon still not nerfed...maybe in the next patch he will be tier 1
ReplyDeletehe gots problems in long range lanes,also his win rate is high cause the only people who play him are swain's masters
ReplyDeletewait for talon nerf for see him tier 1
ReplyDeletetalon garbage cause he can't interrupt channeled...wtf rito?
ReplyDeleteNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SEJUANI AGAIN TIER 1 PLS SSJ STAPH XD
ReplyDeleteI'm main support. Can you explain why Vel'koz is in tier 1 support ? That dont make sense for me when i see Thresh in tier 2.
ReplyDeleteI think he's better as jungler or sup.
ReplyDeleteAs jungler he has a fast clear due his Q and W and as sup. his poke with E is very annoying besides he provides AA and has a good sustain.
Think of Vel'koz support as Morgana support only instead of having a shield you add a whole lot of damage. So you if you try to go all in on the bot lane, Vel'Koz stuns you and the you essentially have 2 carries dealing damage to you. So most of the ranking is on ease of play since really as Vel'Koz you just sit there and poke away and try to hit stuns. Thresh is hard to master the use of laterns, flays, hooks, and boxes. So in a champion list of "champion strength and ease of play" Vel'Koz will be higher than Thresh similar to how Blitzcrank is higher on the list than Thresh for much the same reason.
ReplyDeleteAny champion can be mastered, and at the highest level of player skill and champion mastery, this list would look much different. But that's not really what this tier list is about.
You didn't talk about Vel'Koz support and he's in bold :P
ReplyDeleteSsj can u please explain to me why wukong is so much higher top than mid in your eyes? Last patch you gave a great explanation but u didn't even seem to disagree a bit about how good he is mid, just said it may well become a high solo queu pick and named some weaknesses that not only weren't too big weaknesses, but were also present in top lane wukong, such as lack of range and long cd escape, which are both more significant in a longer lane. His matchups are just so much better in mid and in that lane it's easier to take full advantage of his roaming potential. I don't even disagree with him being a #1 god tier top anymore, the meta favours him ridiculously right now as a laner because his scaling with damage items is ridiculous and with hypercarries so important right now the ability to stealth to the back line and oneshot the carries is just so important. Not only is he simply leaps and bounds better mid than top but in solo queu he is better than talon for climbing as a mid laner. He has a very strong early game which talon lacks due to having a less than half cd gap closer, stronger trades, and much lower mana costs. Roaming potential is debatable though because talon has lower cd ult but wukong's ganks with ult are stronger. In teamfights I personally believe wukong is better because his ability to not only instakill the backline without even them seeing him coming, but the ability to knockup a whole team as well as insane synergy with black cleaver, and if someone tries to peel, they get knocked up. Also wukong brings more when behind, because at least with his ult he can put off a mediocre peel for the adc if oneshotting isn't an option. Only thing better about talon is that he has less counterplay than wukong making him more effective in the competitive scene, but in solo queu, where they can't really play around a wukong nearly as well, he brings much more to the table. Also he is much easier to play than talon. I play at least as much top lane as mid lane wukong, he is just simply better mid, as well as being the most beneficial combo of ease and effectiveness in that lane. I would understand if you didn't think the same way, but the fact that he is #1 god tier top and just barely strong/preferred for mid is too much.
ReplyDeleteAs a cassio player... fuck this shit I'm done.
ReplyDeleteSo, why did Vel'Koz move down?
ReplyDeletelol she's so weak now they pratically half cut all her ratios but e and give her a shitty shtty and shitty passive,her passive is so weak,30% more ap doesn't mean anything if all her kit got nerfed HARD except e
ReplyDeletecause all of you blamed on ssj for vel koz mid god tier XD
ReplyDeletedon't worry talon is gonna be garbage next patch
ReplyDeletePls gnar is better than rumble imo at toplane :o:o:o
ReplyDeletelol this is impossible gnar is the worst toplaner in the game,people just say he's op cause he's ranged :/
ReplyDeleteNow i can agree with the tier list. Good job dude.
ReplyDeleteOMG GAREN SHOULD BE TIER GOD HE CAN SPINZ AND SHI LATE GAME DAMAGE IS HIGH CAUSE I CAN KS EVRY KILLZ WITH RRRR (cit.)
ReplyDeletethis has nothing to do with talon and everything to do with the low placement of wukong
ReplyDeleteAdded a blurb about Wukong, basically unless your team gets some sort of waveclear up top, it takes away from any poke/defensive waveclear abilities your mid laner would normally provide. He is strong mid, but I can't say he's quite as flexible as others, especially if your team starts falling behind.
ReplyDeleteFixed
ReplyDeleteJungle is a high impact role at the moment, especially since the most popular junglers (eg. elise/lee sin) are actually trash and contribute little to actually winning the game outside of some early game aggression that looks good on their score, but actually doesn't matter in solo queue.
ReplyDelete2 AM post release time
ReplyDeleteMOVE HECARIM UP
ReplyDeleteThis is true, ty for ur opinions, but in my experience it didn't make up for it since i climb faster with mid lane than top. Even then, it isn't enough to make him practically 2 tiers below top lane. Amaing explanation on ur opinion though, appreciate it very much.
ReplyDeleteExplication to why my favorite top dropped to tier 1 (warwick)? If you drop it from supergod tier to middle tier1 i would like to know why.
ReplyDeleteAlso SSJ you could make a tierlist or name some champions that could be OP champions but they have high skill caps? (Lee/Elise for example)? Im in platinum (LAN server) and i feel the godtier champions arent fitting in my elo
ReplyDeleteHey, you changed your profile picture, thought you had long hair for some reason.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, it's an interesting read, but I think that he's just having trouble adjusting to the changing meta, just like the majority of the LoL population (if Lee Sin is any indication with his highest pick rate and lowest win rate).
The author actually makes a good point, as it's really the items that make Lee crappy late game and his skills that make him dominate early game.
Unfortunately/fortunately, this game involves both champions and items and you have to play using both. Considering that 4 or 5 (depending on Wukong) of the top 10 win rates in gold are all junglers (sizable popularity on each), I'd say it's just a matter of picking up some stronger champions.
The world wasn't ready for the Swain Train
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it is he might be better himself mid than top, but there are fewer tops that are better than him top and more mids that are better than him mid if that makes any sense.
ReplyDeleteHe's still high Tier 1, for the most part it's because Janna's gaining popularity again.
ReplyDeleteThere's a secret you probably need to know...Lee Sin never gets good until Challenger level. Even at Diamond he's never broken 50% for over a month. He's fun and very satisfying, but if you want to gain Elo steer clear of him.
ReplyDeleteoh damn, i hate janna ulti cancels your ulti (actually it cancels many ultimates).
ReplyDeleteNow i wonder, what build i should use as warwick? I have been using chalice asap, then sunfire, wits/botrk (depending of team), spiritvisage (or frozen heart if full AD), mpen boots or merc boots and more tank items (situational, like guardian angel if you are carrying)
What will you name this novel you have written?
ReplyDeleteI'd take your argument and go one step further; I think every champion after Rammus in god tier jungle should be pushed into tier 1. The drop off in overall effectiveness after Rammus is significant. In no way should a Vi or Warwick remain in the same tier as Amumu or Rammus.
ReplyDeleteI understand you're point but like i said he is basically brings more than talon mid but has more counterplay, making him better for solo queu but talon is better in the highest levels of play.,
ReplyDeleteChallenger 3 can confrim
ReplyDeletewhy is graves not t1?
ReplyDelete1. Will draven ever hit tier 1? And how are they going to nerf kha'six. He isn't even that good lol. I just got good with him again and he already has lost so much from his original kit. Dat Cassio doe...
ReplyDeletewhy?
ReplyDeleteI'm main support (Janna and Zyra), and I hit recently plat V. Do you really think that Nami is really at tier 1? I love her, but I really think she's one of the most difficult champs to play, her Q is very tricky and I think she's mana hungry.
ReplyDeleteAnd in a few months will be become op again but nobody will play him till a year. "The cycle of buffs and nerf continues, we will pick, they will ban"
ReplyDeleteI got it cut. This is what I'm rocking right now.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't like Nami, but I think she's a decent support. I personally think she belongs in Tier 2, but there are some very adamant supporters of her kit and I don't have any particularly strong feelings about keeping her out of Tier 1 as I don't play her.
ReplyDeleteDespite being skillshot reliant to some extent, in lane she can still rely on her other two moves to make an impact, and during most teamfights she can almost always land it as peel since enemies will be laser focused on taking down carries and not on dodging skillshots.
That being said, her win rate does fluctuate between 50.5~51%, which is decent.
It's true that the AoE silence is being considered, but I don't know if it will stick. It could end up being that the silence mechanic is something "special," like Jax's dodge for example, that Riot will leave on her. In any case, I feel like it's completely unnecessary to remove a 1 second silence from a champion who, apparently, just hits people really hard. I think they need to look at other avenues aside from just removing an important aspect of his kit. He will either get dumpstered by certain champions because they can immediately get away or he will go on a rampage as usual. Whatever happens, I don't think it will be a clean fix.
ReplyDeleteI've found that chalice actually delays me quite a bit and only get it if the enemy top and mid are both heavy AP.
ReplyDeleteIf you get a glacial shroud instead if solves your mana problems and becomes part of your core build as well. I'm also not a fan of sunfire as it doesn't help my mana pool. Glacial really synergizes better as it reduces your cooldowns as well.
I prefer building blade of the ruined king/wits end for damage and spirit visage/frozen heart for defense. Usually I end up prioritizing one over the others depending on team comp and who is getting fed.
Ha. Looks good, it's a classic.
ReplyDeleteI was actually planning on doing an explanation on that, thanks for the reminder.
ReplyDelete#1. Thank god you moved Skarner up, I had a fit about the last tier list you made when he was in Tier 2.
ReplyDelete#2. How is Ahri doing so well? Is her winrate consistently rising in all elos? Because, as we've all read, high skill champions are rarely in God Tier or even high Tier 1 and considering Ahri has two skill shots, one of which is essential to her all-in combo, it's tough for me to go along with this placement.
#3. I still don't understand Nunu in Tier 1 jungle. Can someone explain what build/playstyle they use to justify this placement? I'm legitimately asking, because I don't know.
Ahri's win rate is indeed rising across all Elos, and surprisingly she puts out an insane amount of damage right now compared to other champions even when she doesn't hit her full combo.
ReplyDeleteNunu just happens to be one of the few junglers who can consistently survive and/or cause trouble for God Tier junglers. He also synergizes well with Tristana and Caitlyn, but he's not as good with a Lucian on board.
In terms of the kha nerfs, they're gonna nerf his W. Right now Riot thinks it's wave clear and poke (evolved) is too op for the way they want him to be played (opportunistic assassin). Riot did say they are prepared to give his "assassinate abilities" (Q) some love though if he starts to drop.
ReplyDeleteVi and WW both dont have great ganks pre lvl 6. I max Q first, but if I miss on a gank pre-6.. failed gank. Vi's ult CD is ridiculously high. Vi can get counter jungled easy early.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you're just really good at Nasus, but T2 is pretty much where he belongs right now as that is the "balanced" tier. if you can farm against a Teemo, you're not playing against a very good Teemo. The key against a Nasus is to beat him early and not let him sit top lane and free farm. Easier said than done sometimes, but he's very binary. He either scales like a monster off of his q-farming into lategame, or he doesn't and he becomes a dog-shaped orange pylon I have to run around on my way to blow up the carry.
ReplyDeleteHonestly i dont see how talon could be considered a good mid laner.
ReplyDeleteevery time i see him mid, hes getting shit on. Ive shit on him, ive seen
ranked games at nearly all levels with a talon mid and every time he was destroyed in lane. The only thing he brings mid is to counter Zed, and i have even seen Zed's eviscerate Talon and leave his guts all over mid lane. So please explain to me how Talon could even be considered a good mid laner.
Why is jax now tier 2? there were no nerfs on patch 4.16
ReplyDeleteI think he got nerfed in earlier updates but i dont know.
ReplyDeleteSo @SSJSuntastic will you really let the Swain hype train die? :(
ReplyDeleteyou either just lied about all these appalling talons youve seen, or all the talons have just recently picked him up and are still coming to terms with his skill set. Currently, his insane burst and silence counter EVERY mid laner, not just zed. He even brings some more cc with his slow and outplay potential with the second long invisibility, and his damage amplification lets him pretty much instakill squishies even if behind early, which you shouldnt be since your talon.
ReplyDeleteWhere is gragas jungle?
ReplyDeleteWhy go graves when you have lucian. Lucian = Graves v2
ReplyDeleteI dont think there were just trying them out after recently purchasing them. It was Gold, not bronze. and why would i be making it up? What would be the point of it? Ive never seen a good Talon mid in a game ive played in or watched. If somebody could show me a good one i would love to watch it. NOTE: i am not hating on talon, ive seen talon top work like a charm before (not sure how good it is now). I just don't believe he is a viable mid laner from what i have seen others do.
ReplyDeleteezreal main here, completely agree with him being tier 3. so hard to use and gets outclassed by popular adcs (especially lucian)
ReplyDeleteDarn. Now Rito knows about that op ahri mid.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Draven goes... is there a more skill based champion in the game? The reason that he's probably not higher is the mechanical skill level required to really understand his blade toss. Sure it doesn't seem that hard after you've done it awhile, but this tier list is built around ease of play, and Draven is not an easy champion to master.
ReplyDeleteSo what type of build do you suggest for Nunu?
ReplyDeletefair enough, but trust me, talon is broken and deserved of a nerf
ReplyDelete"I've also decided to keep some of my obscure meta picks out of god tier (you may see them pop up in other posts on the site as "underdog" highlight champions.) This list is to help you guys and not to just to voice my opinion after all. With that in mind I'm shifting around some of the placements."
ReplyDeleteAny reason why thresh loses to blitz tier??
ReplyDeleteI'm generally confused on the whole supp meta right now
As one of my mains not being on the list, I am waiting to see Gragas on the jungle tier list? His ganks are quite strong, especially against a pushed lane when you can ult to give them no chance of getting away.
ReplyDeleteMy bae is finally God Tier, hopefully she won't be banned so much, I'd hate to have my main banned :/
ReplyDeleteThresh is a great support, but the problem with him is that he needs to work well with teammates, and with his shield nerfed to only shielding one player it's become even worse, since this is solo queue you probably won't be communicating too well with your team, blitz is just easier to play in solo queue.
ReplyDeleteRyze god tier top hooray. Him and fiora are suck top lane freelo for me
ReplyDeleteBit hard on cassio no? People are still testing her new playstyle, wich is build for late game. I think right now shes a tier 3 and not tier 4
ReplyDeleteThanks for the explanation, and I still think she's very hard to play, but I can't deny that her kit it's extremely useful, and she has one of the best ults of all supports, with great range and a great engage/desengage. I just think that she needs a great skill cap. and a bit of mana control to tier 1 xP. BTW, great list, it's extremely helpful
ReplyDelete#KarmaMidGodTierOkImBiasedAsFuckButKarmaMidTierOneMaybeOkayThisHashtagIsTooLongBetterWriteASentenceInsteadOfThisScrewItTooLazyToDeleteAllOfThisText
ReplyDeleteBut, when Nidalee was launched her win rate was as low as that of Cassiopeia...
ReplyDelete-She has a very powerful sustain (mana and health).
-She has a tons of damage. Burst and DPS.
-She has a movility, Cassio isn't Kassadin, but her q and her slow can neutralize almost any gank. In fact, thanks to its mid-game damage can a 1 vs 2 on a gank.
-Ok, she doesn't have a OP early. However, she has a tools to defend against the enemy and ganks. In some cases you can kill the enemy laner.
-She has a perfect cleanning of minions. Entire waves with only w+e and does not waste mana in the act.
-In teamfight she has a OPPPPPPP utility and damage. I mean, stun of 2 sec accompanied by an insane damage.
-She can destroy any squishy champ and tanks burn easily.
I love her rework, she is Tier 1 between Zyra and Syndra.
Karma top is god-tier, karma jungle is god-tier.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, when Yasuo was launched, he had an awful winrate and everyone thought he was bad. Then you wait a few weeks and he's getting nerfed constantly and he's still powerful. Might as well just put people with major reworks/new champs in their own category for a week until you actually know what's what.
ReplyDeleteI think any other AP range or melees with 2 gapcloser can easily end up with Ryze. (Swain, Rumble, Nidalee, Kayle, Lissandra, Karma, Quinn, Irelia, Fiora, Lulu, Malphite, Yorick, Gnar, Heimerdinger, Akali...) Ryze is tier 2.
ReplyDeleteWhat are your opinions Gragas jungle, Top-lane karma, and Vlad?
ReplyDeleteHahaha XD
ReplyDeleteYou can't just swap to bronze when you want to get good with a new champ. And playing normals .. is not a helpful experience. If I want to brink a new player to ranked, I am going to take a hit to my LP. It evens out though, you have a better chance of not being on my team as being on my team.
ReplyDeleteI just realized I need a level 30 smurf. BRB
who?
ReplyDeleteOh dayum, it's a new champion. :O TRISTAN! :O Much hype. <3
ReplyDeleteWhich is better: tank-mumu or ap-mumu?
ReplyDeleteFixed
ReplyDeleteNidalee was buffed several times after the rework :P
ReplyDeletei'll miss you Talon :(
ReplyDeletei agree. not English, i disagree, he is verisile and his poke is strong. Is stuns and slows guarantee kills and his mega gnar form gives him good sustain.
ReplyDeletesry. Riot has not been kind to you
ReplyDeletetank by far, apmumu is built only when wnning
ReplyDeletenot a build in serious games build liandries maybe rylais and full tank after
After 12, thinking stops just like right before exams and when u are near some you like.
ReplyDeleteYasuo, Gnar, Vel'Koz, Syndra, Lucian, Sona after rework... Their win rate did not exceed 47%. People need to learn.
ReplyDeleteThis week I did a pentakill with Cassiopeia. and I've won 14 and lose 13. i think that the win rate down was because of her free week rotation and changes, a lot of people tried her.
ReplyDeleteshe is extremely hard to play but when used correctly she is awesome.
ReplyDeleteRyze top!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletei play him mid though but still good.
I think kass is not as viable anymore because riftwalkings cool down is so long now. I think it as a viable choice.
Azir is hard to play and is not recommended to anyone lower than level 20.
It's hard. Mostly after the nerfs ur mana cost are super high on ult. Try to go triforce into tank items, frozen heart being the best 2nd option because it gives mana defense and cdr. Your goal is mostly to get to late game because mid game u are quite squishy but late u are a beast. It's ok but got hurt hard by all the nerfs they gave him.
ReplyDeleteoh also kassidin jungle!! probs would be tier 4 but wat eves lolxD
ReplyDeleteNot to mention the q nerf doesn't impact monsters.
ReplyDeleteJax has been tier 2 for a while.
ReplyDeleteDraven is similar to Vayne in the sense that she is insanely difficult but if you get good with her, dear lord.....
ReplyDelete1. How is Lee Sin Tier 2, he wasn't nerfed much, and he has always been strong
ReplyDelete2. I think (especially after the buff to his e) Vlad should be tier 1 top. He hass amazing late game, has synergy with many God tier junglers with AoE ults and does decently against all the God tier tops in lane. Finally, he has recieved many small buffs from items (Rylai's) and bug fixes (E healing)
Can someone explain to me why kennen played much I find his kit insane late game and he has a decent laning phase.
ReplyDeleteahri??
ReplyDeleteI main ADC, but I really dislike Draven. His axes make me feel like I'm on aleash, and people who are smart enough will destory you by using your incredibly predictable movements. That being daid, he does have his niche, as he completly outdamahes every adc in lane.
ReplyDeleteAssuming he means Ahri
ReplyDeleteHaha, was just joking around SSJ. Thanks for the amazing tier list! :D Keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteAhri OP; Ahri now 4800 IP. Is this a sign? :O
ReplyDeleteYasuo just Tier 2? :/
ReplyDeleteNunu can basically make a 5v5 a 4v5. He can walk into the enemy jungle, eat half of it, and go do his jungle run. His ganks aren't the absolute best, but he is a solid counter-jungler and can cripple a jungler's game. Especially if they go Feral Flare. Plus you know, highest AP scaling ability ever, amirite?
ReplyDeletePicked on a cass all laning phase as a katarina. She simply doesnt do any damage. Couldn't push and she didn't even force more than one pot. I know shes supposed to scale out but by then I was doing the typical kat delete off the map stuff u do when kat can have a good laning phase. Seemed really underpowered at all phases tbh
ReplyDeleteYes
ReplyDeleteWhoever thought yasuo was bad on release :O when I saw my no skill having step bro getting quadras on him I knew he needed nerfs.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair shyvana can gank a pushed lane lol....
ReplyDeleteWhat is wukongs build path?
ReplyDeleteap-mumu for sure. although it depends on the game and what your team needs. if you dont have a tank in the top lane, go tank-mumu. both work incredibly well.
ReplyDeleteI hate kennen lol
ReplyDeleteGoodbye silence!
ReplyDeleteI got tired of having long hair. It gets annoying always having to take care of it and keeping it out of your face. I told the barber to give me something stylish so he gave me Macklemore's hair style. I just love it.
ReplyDeleteShampoo does gets expensive :P
ReplyDeletemake Diana top on the tier list plz. She carried me outta plat
ReplyDeleteYou're only suppose to use shampoo in your hair once a week because it's bad for your hair. Their is also chemicals in it if you're not using an organic kind. I try not to use shampoo that has Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Ammonium Laureth Sulfate, and Sodium Laureth Sulfate. Those chemicals are used with bleach to get the paint off of floors.
ReplyDeletegaren's classic fratmog still works... AND OP!!!
ReplyDeletetanky ap amumu is balanced and better than pure tank...
ReplyDeletehis ult with good ap can half-health squishy enemies...
makes sense
ReplyDeleteHis shield is just a burst shield now and he needs someone with a knock up to be most effective
ReplyDeleteAnd your blind is still there, demon...
ReplyDeleteWhat skill order do you go with Kass Top? I've seen a lot of discussion on whether to max Q early to get the extra shield or whether to go W to get more damage and mana regen on minion kills. I still don't have a ton of time on Kass Top but right now building Rod Of Ages into Triforce gives a bit more sustain in the early game and but slows your build up time since you don't have a ton of damage. Although if you go Triforce first you hit a damage spike MUCH faster (sheen procs are your friend) and that can lead to better scaling late game.
ReplyDeletedoes swain nerfed or somothing ?? why is it dropped to tier 1 ????
ReplyDeleteSorry I can't take this list seriously.
ReplyDeleteIt would appear that it's more just of a "everyone always asks why he's in God tier, so why justify it every time when everyone that loves him will still play him, and all the people that don't will stop complaining" type of shift. No nerf to speak of just a quality of life adjustment.
ReplyDeleteWell what would you change? And you're not required to take the list as gospel... it is just a starting place for people looking to improve in pre-high elo play.
ReplyDeleteWhile Cass is garbage now, I feel her wr will go up just a bit once people get better with her. However, I doubt it will exceed 41%. She's pretty bad now.
ReplyDeleteHe's not broken. The meta simply favors him. If he was broken, he would have been nerfed over a year ago.
ReplyDeleteDraven IS tier 1....
ReplyDeleteI assume there is the odd good Lee from Plat-DIamond. But for most people, yeah, Lee is a bad idea.
ReplyDeleteIs nami the best support for duo q or team ranked?
ReplyDeleteMeta hates him :/
ReplyDeleteMaokai and nunu have the best sinergy with the Golen item. Maokai deals a good amount of damage for the utility he adds to the table
ReplyDeleteAccording to @wukong only, go full damage and be happy
ReplyDeletehe's garen version adc
ReplyDeletebecause your loveful zed isn't tier god lol?
ReplyDeletecause his high winrate is due to the fact that the only people playing people are people who master him
ReplyDeleteonly his ultimate is insane late game,his e still useful,q and w drops badly
ReplyDeletethe best support for team ranked is tresh
ReplyDeletenami is just hitting this bubble and worth
they don't outshines him cause you got a targeted root+gapcloser(which is op)
ReplyDeletehis teamfight is op but they're goona nerf him even more so except a drop
The Heimer drop is real.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Cassiopeia has been nerfed SO MUCH, I think her winrate has been lowered because:
ReplyDelete1. People are still learning her now;
2. People who cannot use her played her just to test how she was.
Lee's main shtick was that he was super oppressive early no matter where he went and then building off that early lead he could survive late game. His kit just had so much that no matter what you did he would probably kill you.
ReplyDeleteThe reason why something as simple as a loss of an attack speed slow on his e made him drop a tier was because auto attacks are so damn important in early game jungle trades that to be able to decrease the amount that someone can aa is overpowered as hell, don't believe me think of the 3 LCS God Tier Junglers who were all great at counterjungling, Lee, Elise and Eve. Lee can hit his e and win any trade (his q also has too many forms of damage, percentage damage and an execute). Elise can increase her aa speed and get sustain off it, Eve and aa and use Hate spikes at the same time so she could outdamage anyone early.
Without that aa speed decrease on his e, Lee loses his high pressure early game and it becomes harder to do well in the late game. Lee isn't technically bad but he requires such insane levels of knowledge on him to do well that even in Diamond they can struggle. If you were a Diamond level Lee pre nerf then you can still play him and do well but now I would recommend learning another jungler because for every inSec there's about 5 million flops
I'm going to predict that Cassio will get a huge win rate increase within the next 3 or so weeks. Why? Well ever since the Rengar rework (I have no idea whether this happened before this but this is the first rework I can remember) everyone claimed that the reworked champion was useless and unplayable, then the weeks go by and suddenly they are the most op thing ever and they must be nerfed. Since Rengar we have seen Kassadin, Nidalee, Gragas, Kha Zix and Xerath reworked (this doesn't apply as much to Xerath but he certainly got a lot more popular recently), everyone believed Kassadin was killed off but he came back as strong as ever, Nidalee and Gragas went to the top lane and just dominated there and Kha Zix after a slight change in build is still strong (not as strong as damage reduction ult but still strong).
ReplyDeleteSoon people will complain about Cassio having stupid amounts of late game potential and that she needs to be nerfed now.
I agree with that, but her early game is so bad. She is physically (and magically) incapable of bullying anyone anymore. She may have one of the, if not the, strongest late games right now but getting to that point is infinitely times more difficult.
ReplyDeleteok so hes broken in this meta then :p
ReplyDeletewukong jungle/mid/top or all :p and yea akali is really strong
ReplyDeletewould you say that a void staff or liandrys is best as last item?
ReplyDeleteWho would you say (if any) counters wu mid, I feel like Ziggs would do well down to his high poke and satchel charge being able to get him out of a number of sticky situations. I know you've mentioned Pantheon before (coincidentally someone I'm looking to main in more roles than jungle) but would there be anyone else?
ReplyDeleteYou have 4 options when it comes to the last item, void staff if they're stacking mr and you need to keep the damage and thus more sustain from spellvamp then thats the optimal choice, if they have magic damage that needs to be accounted for visage and abyscal are go to items.
ReplyDeleteAbyscal if they are not stacking that much mr and 20 magic pen (42 with magic pen seals and sorcs) is enough, otherwise if they're squishy visage is go to, increased sepllvamp which scales with e and more healing on the return of q helps a lot.
I only recommend liandrys if things happen 1. they have mixed damage and the flat health is enough to combat the two damage sources. 2. you have ryali's and they have a lot of hp stacking champs such as mundo and braum, OR even if you dont have rylai's your team has enough cc preferably aoe cc so that the passive of liandrys kicks in without the need of ryali's passive for the dps.
Otherwise play vlad kick ass and get blood lord to spam laugh and feel like a god.
hey, you told me the same and you agreed you exaggerated a bit comparing these two :,(
ReplyDeleteKarma. Poke, stealth reveal, shields, movespeed... that lane is miserable. WAY worse than Ziggs.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few counters, or at least champs that have everything they need to beat a wukong. You generally don't want to pick him into a mordekaiser lane, you will lose if you don't get ganks (though with ganks its really easy to kill due to his lack of escape. Though I have never vsed a good one, my friend @menwith2fedoras who is an expert at wukong claims karma is a very hard matchups. A very well played lulu can poke a wukong out of lane due to a shield and stealth reveal, and her ult is amaing against wukong. Kayle has her ult which counters wukong completely but I'd say it's a skill matchup. Swain is kind of challenging but I'd say a skill match slightly in swains favor due to his insane sustain post 6. These all are champs that can play against a good wukong and probably the only ones. However if you are vsing a bad wukong, then you will probably win against him easily if you play ahri, syndra, annie, or morgana, but will lose to a good wukong even if u play well. I've vsed a lot of ziggs, his poke is annoying, but the matchup is about as easy as jump on him and kill him, if he sacthels just ult and reposition so u go flying with him if he reactivates, also stay away from cs so he has to choose between poking u and csing. Yes pantheon is practically unwinnable for wukong pre 6, but if not behind u will win post 6 (u will be behind like hell lol), ganks do wonders against champs with no escapes though. Also lane swaps are possible, he does not fair nearly as well against bruisers/tanks.
ReplyDeleteYou made a type btw on Nasus's Explanation.
ReplyDeleteIt should be influencing or influential.
You're welcome! :D
Btw I love these tier lists, its how I found my love to a lot of champs.
Thanks!
so i am going to completly disregard this list from now on. ahri in god tier? sejuani on tier 1? right then used to agree with SOME of the things in this list but now i dont think so
ReplyDelete21/9/0 masteries. Flat ad quints, marks, armor seals, mr glyphs. Hydra, last whipser, and black cleaver is the general build, after I like going maw and randuins. I've been experimenting with youmuu's ghostblade, active is amazing for teamfighting, picking off, and escaping, but Idk if it's worth swapping one of the items from the general build. This is for top/mid wukong, plz do me a favour and not play him in the jungle.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome! Bye!
ReplyDeleteFixed!
ReplyDeleteinsert the other list....
ReplyDeleteWhy top Vlad not higher? He counters a lot of melee champions, and his late game is very good. His waveclear and sustain in top lane are very good also
ReplyDeleteHis early game is really, really bad (really bad).
ReplyDeleteShe offers a lot of disengage and engage so I personally think she is really strong. It is best to play her with a duo that knows how to use her E or you can play solo if you know how to land all her bubbles and use your E yourself. She's a bit like Lee sin in terms of team dependency.
ReplyDeletePersonally my duo friend and I like to play ezreal and alistar bot. If you land all his poke he can be quite good but his lack of cc can make him a poor choice.
ReplyDeleteAfter 30 ranked games I can tell you I even felt awkward seeing him in tier 2 previously. He is the worst adc in the game (urgot doesn't count). His only non ult ability that does significant damage in laning phase is easily countered by standing behind minions, and his late game damage is horrible, his mid game is his best part, and it's almost average.
ReplyDeleteLove your pic, made me laugh.
ReplyDeleteExplain Swain move down plz and ty for listening to us on Vel'Koz!
ReplyDeleteNo Jungle Gragas?
ReplyDelete