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SEASON 4 - PATCH 4.1 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
SEASON 4 UPDATE
SEASON 4 UPDATE
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the official start of Season 4! This time around they nerfed two major top lane items: Sunfire Cape and Spirit Visage. For those of you wondering why Dr. Mundo didn't get nerfed hard this patch, it's because they hit him with an indirect one from the item changes.
Anyway, without further ado, let's check out the list!
Patch 4.1 Summary
Updates/Changes:Buffs: Anivia, Darius, Janna, Yasuo
Nerfs: Annie, Evelynn, Jinx, Nasus, Olaf, Rengar, Riven, Shyvana, Thresh
Tweaks: Fiddlesticks, Hecarim, Lux, Malzahar, Nami, Talon
Item Nerfs: Spirit Visage, Sunfire Cape
- 1/19: Annie moved down, Mundo/Graves moved back up, Yasuo moved up to Tier 1 Mid
- 1/24: Couple tweaks on Yasuo & Gragas
- 1/27: Moved Draven and Yasuo up, Evelynn moved down
- 1/28: New FOTM Report: Yasuo, Leblanc, Vi, Gragas, Elise
- 1/31: Shyvana moved down, Jungle Wukong moved up, Katarina moved up
- 2/1: Jarvan moved down, Swain moved down, Sivir moved down, Shyvana moved down, Leblanc moved up, Trundle moved up, added Poppy support
- 2/8: Rammus moved down slightly, Draven moved down, Jungle Wukong moved up, Olaf/Shyvana top moved down
Use CTRL + F to Search For Champions
God Tier [Very Strong]:
Mid-Lane Gods: Ziggs, Kassadin, Yasuo, Gragas, Kayle, Kha'Zix
Jungle Gods: Amumu, Vi, Kha'Zix, Elise, Rammus
AD Gods: Jinx, Draven, Lucian, Sivir
Top Lane Gods: Wukong, Jax, Nasus, Renekton, Dr. Mundo
Support Gods: Leona, Thresh
Tier 1 [Really Strong]:
Mid-Lane: Katarina, Orianna, Swain, Lux, Fizz, Talon, Morgana, Malzahar, Nidalee, Syndra, Diana, Ahri, Teemo, Annie, Brand, Wukong, Pantheon, Akali,
Jungle: Wukong, Volibear, Fiddlesticks, Jarvan IV, Udyr, Sejuani, Aatrox, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Hecarim, Nautilus, Zac, Dr. Mundo, Shyvana, Rengar
AD Carry: Caitlyn, Twitch, Varus, Tristana, Ezreal, Graves
Top Lane: Teemo, Yasuo, Shyvana, Singed, Darius, Olaf, Rengar, Tryndamere, Aatrox, Yorick, Kennen, Jarvan IV, Warwick, Elise, Kayle, Malphite, Lee Sin, Udyr, Volibear, Karma, Nidalee
Support: Sona, Annie, Taric, Zyra, Blitzcrank, Janna, Nami,
Tier 2 [Balanced]:
Mid-Lane: Heimerdinger, Viktor, Cassiopeia, Anivia, Galio, Kennen, Mordekaiser, Zed, Leblanc, Vladimir, Xerath, Zyra, Elise, Lissandra, Sion, Karma
Jungle: Olaf, Shaco, Maokai, Nasus, Warwick, Pantheon, Xin Zhao, Leona, Trundle, Malphite, Skarner, Gragas, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Vayne, Kog'Maw, Ashe, Miss Fortune, Quinn, Corki
Top Lane: Rumble, Fiora, Zac, Riven, Pantheon, Shen, Poppy, Akali, Quinn, Vi, Swain, Kha'Zix, Vladimir, Cho'gath, Trundle, Garen, Jayce, Lissandra, Zed
Support: Lulu, Fiddlesticks, Karma, Alistar, Soraka
Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
Mid-Lane: Karthus, Veigar, Riven, Twisted Fate, Jayce, Cho'Gath, Ryze, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Soraka
Jungle: Evelynn, Nunu, Jax, Cho'Gath, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Master Yi, Riven, Kayle, Poppy, Darius,
AD Carry: Twisted Fate, Kennen, Urgot
Top Lane: Irelia, Gangplank, Mordekaiser, Xin Zhao, Sion, Vayne, Master Yi, Talon, Ryze, Nunu, Galio
Support: Morgana, Teemo, Nunu, Volibear, Lux, Nautilus, Orianna, Nidalee, Zilean, Gangplank, Shen
Tier 4 [Difficult to Win]:
Mid-Lane: Lulu, Kog'maw, Zilean, Tristana, Janna, Ezreal (AP),
Jungle: Tryndamere, Gangplank, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry:
Top Lane: Urgot
Support: Kayle, Malphite, Poppy, Elise, Maokai, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc, Caitlyn
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
Champion Explanations
- Anivia [Tier 2 Mid] - So this last patch gave Anivia a couple buffs, including a faster auto attack for smoother harass/last hitting. However, she's still getting heavily cheesed by champions who are strong level 1~3 champions due to the fact that she quite literally has the lowest base health in the game. That being said, if she can survive to mid-late game without dying, her damage output, utility, and waveclear are insane.
- Draven [God Tier Marksman]- With the newest Jinx nerf this patch coupled with the Sivir and Lucian nerfs of last patch, Draven's back and stronger than ever before. His main strength is obviously his ability early on to out-duel any champion in the game. As the other "top" ad carries were nerfed he's naturally stronger. This, combined with the nerfs on tank items really makes him a major threat on the field at all points in the game.
- Dr. Mundo [God Tier Top] - Sunfire cape and Spirit Visage nerfs took down a huge part of his "OP" factor and he's much more manageable now.
- Fiddlesticks [Tier 2 Support] - Although Fiddlestick's fear was inadvertently changed, it really goes to show you that a minor change in his fear flee path can break the champion so heavily. That being said, since they reverted the change I think he's still a pretty solid support, but a lot of the heavier melee supports are taking over at the moment.
- Gragas [Tier 1 Mid] - Gragas is absolutely beast right now. With champions like Draven, Yasuo, and Jax seeing a lot of gameplay, that means that his attack speed reduction is an amazing asset to most teams.
- Kassadin [God Tier Mid] - While Kassadin's been banned 90% of games, I still think he's a very strong pick and snowballs a team very hard, even from behind. While he certainly has his counters, I think that he adds a particular element to the game that creates a need to address him. That being said, I haven't seen him in months.
- Katarina [Tier 1 Mid] - With Yasuo being so popular, most other assassins nerfed and Katarina untouched, I think we'll be seeing a lot more of her power now. A lot of popular champions also have relatively little in the way of CC and she's great against a team with Mundo.
- Kha'Zix [God Tier Mid/Jungle] - With squishy champions gaining popularity on the fields of justice, Kha'zix has really made a comeback as one of the biggest nuisances on the field. His damage output is nothing to scoff at, and although he tends to be squishy, with a mid laners like Swain/Gragas and supports like Leona on the field, a tanky jungler is hardly required.
- Riven [Tier 2 Top, Tier 3 Mid] - Riven's nerfs I feel were fair, and although her playstyle has changed drastically, I think that she's still a balanced top laner. As she stands I think she needs a little more skill than usual mid lane, but still works to some degree.
- Warwick [Tier 1 Top] - As it stands, outside of a couple champions that are almost always banned (Mundo, Shyvana etc.) top lane has become a fairly subdued lane compared to how it used to be. Warwick's one of the few champions that has the ability to outsustain these champions, and his hunter's call also works very well with all the heavy auto-attack champions that are out there now. The shift towards more heavy damage, low CC champions also gives his low cooldown suppression a high level of success. While he doesn't particularly stand out in the jungle, I think he's very strong top at the moment.
- Yasuo [Tier 1 Top/God Tier Mid] - Yasuo's new buffs are actually pretty outrageous, quickly launching him to one of the highest win rate champions in the game.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for champion selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
Warwick Explanation??
ReplyDeletei noticed last tier list that sejuani has moved down from god tier. It's because the new jungle is too strong for her right? ;(
ReplyDeleteThanks, added it :)
ReplyDeleteShe was moved down when I lowered the number of champions in God Tier, nothing particularly changed about her.
ReplyDeleteBRACE YOURSELF SSJ !
ReplyDeleteOh god...
ReplyDeleteLove this site,, really i love this site
ReplyDeleteAWWW yea katarina moved up:) waited for this for a long time
ReplyDeleteDr.mundo explanation too... '-'
ReplyDeletemundo explaination?
ReplyDeleteCan you explain what you think about the current situation with zac?
ReplyDeleteWhat is your stand on Top lane Trundle I have seen him more and more common and I'm curious to see how it will end up.
ReplyDeleteI think that he's a good counter to certain champions, but tends to be somewhat of a low impact champion.
ReplyDeleteI think he's fine, some champions just happen to be stronger.
ReplyDeleteResoning behind moving graves to tier 2 :(
ReplyDeleteJust keeping the god tier fresh, he's still good.
ReplyDeleteMind sharing why Graves was moved to tier 2?
ReplyDeleteWhy is Swain God tier? Hardly ever see him..
ReplyDeletecan u explain Swain pls?
ReplyDeleteI think you should reconsider your placement of Heimerdinger and Fiora. The two have been gaining some notoriety lately.
ReplyDeleteGraves just seemed more appropriate in the balanced tier as he lacks the same kind of range and utility other champions have.
ReplyDeleteAnnie got buffed tbh, the perma-tibbers is nothing to laugh at.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of Yasuo support? He has high sustain, lots of easy poke, strong all-in potential at 6, and a unique ability to deny the enemy adc from getting cs by using his windwall to block auto attacks if the enemy is pushed under tower.
ReplyDeleteUnderplayed / Underestimated :)
ReplyDeletexfioramaster18!!! she is back!!
ReplyDeletemeh the stun duration still got decreased so i don't consider it buff :)
ReplyDeleteFor the lolz & the fun why not...
ReplyDeleteHe made like 3 references to it. Sunfire and visage nerfs.
ReplyDeleteAdded it, he's still very strong, just not consistently overwhelmingly so. Close to it though.
ReplyDeleteYeahdubz?
ReplyDeletewinrate
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think Master Yi fits Mid lane waaay better than Top or Jungle
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I do mean the new AD Yi, not the old AP Yi
Also, what do you think of AP Shaco as a Support? May sound weird at first glance, but try it out
ReplyDeleteHow about karthus support It seems possible as long as you can survive especially with your huge width of W to slow for champions to get hits on them like draven. and his e sustains him or is a decent AoE damage. and still has a fantastic ult IMO
ReplyDeleteYou don't see it much but Taric can completely shut down Talon in a solo lane if players are of equal skill.
ReplyDeleteIsn't annie a tweak since early game got nerfed but late game got stronger?
ReplyDeleteit wasnt there at 1st , he just added it
ReplyDeleteWhy is Leblanc in tier 3? She's been picked/banned alot in the LCS lately.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand, Yasuo can be so powerful yet he's not even in Tier 1. Why is this? Too reliable on the team? Even so, getting 3 stacks isn't too too difficult, and that E is amazing....
ReplyDeleteExplaination of swain?
ReplyDeletehows j4 now compared to common picks like elise,olaf, vi
ReplyDeleteshyv tier god on top?
ReplyDeleteshyv no more deal dmg better place her on tier 2
ReplyDeleteEver looked at Rumble mid? In my opinion it is REALLY GOOD, not mainly because of lane power (in terms of 1v1 laning he does well vs most but can lose vs champs like syndra and ziggs) but his insane roaming, putting him in top lane rather than mid is a waste of potential imo
ReplyDeleteShould I take Yasuo ranked? I have had alot of success with him on normals, but I don't want to lose any placement matches ...
ReplyDeleteCaitlyn Support? How is she viable at all?
ReplyDeleteAnd are Morgana and Nunu support so bad?
why is Morgana tier 3 support? She can get rid of the close range supports which are good now.
ReplyDeleteYeah caitlyn support sounds pretty stupid even in theory crafting. Morgana support is like lux support. Nunu support was popular, but he became more of a situational/viable pick when his attk speed steroid was nerfed. Nunu support is dead gone now b/c caitlyn and vayne aren't the best picks anymore.
ReplyDeleteand laning phase is over when you have perma-tibbers and you won't get 40% cd reduction al lthe time
ReplyDeleteTop Karthus?
ReplyDeleteAlso I think it would be nice if you add a section that says which champs moved up or down tiers compared to the previous patch.
Well, I think caitlyn is one of the best picks right now.
ReplyDeleteAnd what exactly is the type of Morgana's and Lux's support?
u should think about rammus he isnt any more a good jungler
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to shyvana and Rengar both were nerfed relatively hard and didn't drop
ReplyDeleteOut of curiousity, what exactly do you mean by "not consistently overwhelmingly so"? I was thinking that Mundo's strengths came from the defensive masteries and his kit which made him pretty tanky and sustainy, but at the same time pretty painful and annoying to deal with by the enemy carries. I know the item nerf must have been harsh, but weren't they just extras for mundo which pushed to be even more unstoppable? If so, how did the item nerfs knock him down a whole category while Shyvana remains on top? :O
ReplyDelete(I've been playing Mundo top in his corporate skin all of 3.15. So much lolz in briefcasing someone to death so I think I've got a hand of how he works out. I'd love to try him out on 4.1 but the patch still hasn't arrived on our country so sadface.)
Thanks in advance SSJ! :)
I thought the Annie nerf was gonna get her out of the support role and back in mid lane. I think you should put an explanation for support Annie because I thought she wouldn't be god tier anymore.
ReplyDeleteNew jungle item changes make her stronger than ever before
ReplyDeletehows j4 now compared to common picks like elise,and vi
ReplyDeletereview the god tier jungle
ReplyDeletety for bringing graves back up :)
ReplyDeleteMundo isn't Tier1 Top as you stated in the explanation.
ReplyDeleteLet's see...second highest win rate on a jungler in the game, yep, still good
ReplyDeleteShe is still good, you have to know how to play with her.
ReplyDeleteMy last matches with the nerf
10/0/7
5/0/5
do you mind clarifying on how corki is worse than ashe, mf and quinn? He's in a bad spot sure but i dont see how hes that bad
ReplyDeletenotice this is a "solo q" list, this is not a LCS tier list, zed is a great champ with good team co-ordination and synergy but in soloq hes less effective much like LB
ReplyDeletenotice this is a "solo q" list, this is not a LCS tier list, zed is a great champ with good team co-ordination and synergy but in soloq hes less effective much like LB :D
ReplyDeleteconsider the played adc right now, Lucian Cait jinx sivir, all high range, all of which will SMASH corki
ReplyDeletekarthus is barely a mid laner anymore, you dont expect him unless you run into scarra
ReplyDeleteI can agree on Khazix, he is such a beast right now. Freelo all the way.
ReplyDeleteI see Lulu mid, yet no machine gun Lulu top? It's not played hugely, but it's actually pretty good early to mid game, ( Falls off a bit late ) but definitely more viable than her in mid.
ReplyDeleteI know. That's why Im telling them to add it in
ReplyDeleteshould i buy him?
ReplyDeleteThoughts on Sejuani jungle?
ReplyDeleteCan you explain rengar jungle?
ReplyDeleteRiven is still OP as fuck
ReplyDeleteAny explanation for Wukong? He's always god tier top but i haven't seen him in play for a very long time.
ReplyDeleteHe's always been god tier cause of his win rate and how he can carry a team, he can go really bad in laning phase and use ulti and still be useful or snowball really hard with ravenous hydra
ReplyDeleteAny thoughts of Karma mid on the rise? She's seen a lot of play lately, be it in bot or mid.
ReplyDeletei always love these but i don't agree on a couple of these at all. My biggest issue is Zyra. I know her nerfs hit her hard a few patches back but her mid lane in solo que is still one of the safest due to her strong aoe, utility, and the fact that her plants can just farm for her. unless they completely knock her down I think she should really be in at least the second tier. I know that as a Zyra main i see a lot more of her than everyone else but i have never played a champ or seen one in solo que that has been able to almost quadruple everyone else's damage. that's just my opinion though.
ReplyDeleteWu kong still god tier?
ReplyDeleteYou should add ap kog'maw mid. From my experiances he has a safe lane and strong late game with good ap ratios
ReplyDeletePut annie back up to God Mid Laner.........
ReplyDeleteI agree! Made a penta with her :3
ReplyDeleteI think it's a fact of farming...
ReplyDeletehey xin zhao is the best top laner ever
ReplyDeleteMid Maokai?
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to talon?
ReplyDeletekayle is tier 1 imo, she depends too much on late game power and expensive items. I believe ori, gragas, nidalee, and even fizz is stronger than kayle. even some of the best kayles (alex ich) get owned so hard early.
ReplyDeleteYou shouldn't play something according to his winrate but more according to your playstyle! get it?
ReplyDeleteSo try it if you can but don't waste IP/RP on a champion that will most likely be dusty after few days or weeks just make sure first to have the champions you require for yourself then unlock the rest later.
Its like many things in life! its not the quantity of the stuff you got but more how you use it!
Most likely lets say!
ReplyDeleteI will name my baby Nickmac9!
ReplyDeletehe might get tier1 let SSJ judge but as an assassin...the late game is always one trick poney!
ReplyDeleteHere
ReplyDeleteLulu is too low on this list. She is very strong right now and her kit provides immense versatility. I think she may be the best overall support in the game right now.
ReplyDeleteI need a legend for all the freaking font in this. Wtf man.
ReplyDeleteleblanc i also think is stronger than kayle
ReplyDeletetrue
ReplyDelete......ok
ReplyDeleteWhy is teemo mid tier 1?
ReplyDeleteOkay, first of all thank you for making this list ssj, it has consistently been a very helpful tool to me and I'm sure many others.
ReplyDeleteNow onto my actual comment..... I frequently see Aatrox placed as one of the top champions in the Tier 1 top laners and usually around middle of the pack Tier 1 for Junglers. He's a great fighter tank with excellent sustain and a killer ult, and in the jungle his sustain allows for great feeding and his q-e-r combo is a killer. I main Aatrox, so personally I think he's an amazing champion, but what are the factors that are keeping him from God Tier? Is he only good amongst noobs? What are his weaknesses and how do you work around them? Is he just a noob champ?
Hmmm. How is heimerdinger balanced and why isn't he higher or lower. I'm curious to know your opinion before buying
ReplyDeleteHe is really squishy early and late unless he builds it and if he does it limits his damage, and cc locks him up very well even with his e if he gets locked on then he will be useless. I don't jungle much but i feel aatrox can get counter jungled quite easily and with the new tanky top meta he suffers alot from strong duelists and tank champions like shy and tryn , renek and mundo who can cc him
ReplyDeleteWhy was Taric moved down?
ReplyDeleteSwain is what I call "The most underrated champ." He is different from most mids for the reason that he isn't a "burst champion". His attacks are made to do a large amount of damage but they take time as opposed to the usual "a lot of damage fast." One of Swain's greatest traits is that his ultimate doesn't do an extreme amount of damage but it not only makes him a lot better in fights against multiple enemies but it virtually turns him into an ap tank.
ReplyDeleteGotta Say a couple things, petitioning, in short, for LB, Anivia, and Kog'Maw (Mid)
ReplyDeleteLong
time mid laner, and I have to say that the tier 3 champs you have are
people who have been nerfed almost out of significance. Meanwhile LB has
been receiving a ton of LCS playing, in fact Shiphtur practically
single-handedly won with LB in the middle against Riven even though
bottom had went 0-2 before minions spawned and got another one when they
were just 5 cs in.
Anivia, while granted has her traits that
makes her not so good, has insane CC, burst damage, and hidden tankiness
with the egg. Her egg early game makes ignite worthless and most mid
laners don't have enough to pull through afterwords to make it into a
kill. Often people stay too long and die themselves or they just leave
and be happy with the egg.
Finally, Kog'maw mid lane. Kog has
huge ap ratios and has hyper carry status faster than ad kog. He
outranges almost all the mid lane champions and has great power now that
the asssassin meta has passed and the tank meta has arrived.
It's right under the actual tier list
ReplyDeleteKayle has a weak early game, so she will lose to anyone who she cannot kite.
ReplyDeleteHowever, she can fulfill many roles on your team with good efficiency and is a very, very strong champion in general. She can carry the game by herself if need be, or she can use her Ult to make big plays like saving your AD carry in a team fight.
I'm not sure why you are comparing a solo q tier list Kayle ranking to some of the best Kayle players in the world. It's not even relevant. Again, this is a SOLO Q tier list. She is VERY strong in solo q and people are just beginning to realize how OP she still is.
She does slightly less damage than before, but she is still very strong. She still has the same role of wave clearing, tanking and doing damage.
ReplyDeleteShe's still one of the best top laners.
Why are you even comparing what people pick in Solo q to the LCS? That's the real question.
ReplyDeleteWhy do people make stupid comparisons? Are you playing in the LCS or something? No?
This is a solo q tier list.
I agree, but the meta for top laners is changing to tankish top laners, and in that regard, Trundle completely dominates.
ReplyDeletespeaking of under rated champs i think maokai should be at least lower tier one, he has so much cc and damage potential
ReplyDeleteso not true real good early but falls off mis-late game
ReplyDeletethis is soo contructive
ReplyDeleteI am not a League enthusiast, but when I play Zed (in gold) I find myself being quite a threat for the other team. Seeing Zed in the balanced tier was surprising. I know his nerf within the past few patches (not sure exactly which patch it was) hit kinda hard, but I think he is someone to keep an eye on.
ReplyDeleteCan you please explain wukong? I really don't understand why he is god tier (it's not a criticism, it's really a question).
ReplyDeleteI'm not a pro player, but almost any champion out-sustain wukong =/.
I love play him, but his counters are in the meta right now.
Thanks.
Yeah well, caitlyn can be good and have lane dominance and that's it. There are other bot laners who scale much better than her in the aspect of damage like Draven, Lucian, and Jinx. The type of Morgana and Lux support is the type that has to land their CC properly to be an effective lane partner and their CC is ok considering that their type of CC mainly are snares and slows. They are rather squishy and with a kill lane support, they will be done for. They are more of a situational pick now. Just be expected to land skillshots to be useful because both champions have pretty mediocre peels considering that all their CC is kitable.
ReplyDeleteHe more or so deserves to be in Tier 1 rather than "balanced", but the difference between tier 1 and 2 is ever so slight. Zed has incredible burst and mobility, but catching up to targets is more of a hassle now that it used to be and his W just doesn't feel the same anymore. They made him to be more slippery and skill based due to his ult buff (2100 range) and the nerf. He's still being played a lot in KR servers b/c his nerfs didn't touch his burst or mobility at all. You could say he's like the talon that got nerfed a long time ago and he's coming out again b/c assassins got nerfed.
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't deserve to be in god tier top for so many champions wreck him. He deserves to be in the god tier jungle IMO because there aren't really any champions that can fully shut down Wukong in the jungle except Lee Sin or any early invaders, which got nerfed. His ult just wins game with his very very good ratios for his Ultimate and considering that he can knock any target, he's very good and godlike in team fights. I also love to play Wukong, but got rid of my ways of being in top and played in the jungle. I don't like playing wukong in the jungle but wukong has very good clears and his clone can tank monsters. I won significantly more games with wukong jungle than top.
ReplyDeleteHe is more popular in the jungle cause you can avoid his weak lane phase, also wukong does deserve to be god tier for top his ulti is game changing not cause its a knock up but because of the ridiculous ad ratio of 4.8 full ad over the 4 secs i also feel that jungle wukong doesnt get much items compared to top wukong. Also not much champions can counter a good wukong the only good ones are renekton, darius and panth and only renek is played much out of those. Counters like lee sin and garen are easy to beat if u use ur q then ur e lee sin cant trade with the damage of wukong and with a brutilser wukong can own garen
ReplyDeleteLike more than 50% of people commenting here about this champ here and there which are unorthodox but still can perform well the main reason its not on the list is that it will not fit on the meta!
ReplyDeleteHere is an exemple all role are picked except top lets say Ziggs mid Evelyn Jungle and botlane like Janna Ashe. Do you really think Lulu top would be smart idea? i mean...think about it...
If you still believe it should be a must on this list then there is nothing i can do for you i just give you the main reason why it shouldn't be added the main purpose of this list is to help people raise their elo and not decrease or jam it!
Nerf + HighSkillCap + Assassin (which fall pretty hard late game...)
ReplyDeleteI will not detail it more since people asked and people will keep posting asking for it...if you got another question about the subject i will be glad to help you as much as i can.
Despites all which have been said + this patch which nerfed her + tanky item getting nerf (Spirit Visage & Sunfire Cape) She's still a very strong champion not "OP" like before but really strong!
ReplyDeleteNot so hard as you really think :) same for Riven even.
ReplyDeleteRiot made a wise choice by making those champion played by people that actualy want to play'em more than to play it because its the trend...
Just like the fact of Kassadin being ban more than picked 90% of the time!
I do think just like you Jeffrey at one difference is that maybe you played it and i didn't so i cannot go more in depth with your debat :/
ReplyDeleteAll i can think so about Lulu being low is her result in SoloQ not being that effective and most probably my best guess is that it require a great synergy between you & the ADC which is hard very hard in SoloQ...
Thank you Jason for saving my keyboard!
ReplyDeleteTry to go deeper in the comment list.
ReplyDeleteSSJ said he wants to keep the God Tier fresh which is a good idea it would be not fair for many tier 1 champions to have talon above him. (imo)
Talon is excellent and maybe the most effective as easy assassin even easier than Kha'Zix but according to SSJ and i sort agree with him people finaly realize that Kha'Zix is very strong!!! and Talon is decent all around (Early>Mid>Late Game) but Kha'Zix just scale even better! His isolated damage are really insane!
But i guess the main difference between Kha'Zix and Talon is that a good Kha'Zix will evolve his jump asap or as second evolution maximum which makes him reset the CD on any kill/assist (yes even an assist...) which can make him take away an isolated target and just bounce away right after which gives to the enemy team such small window to take him down that most of the time people don't profit into it!
I got a huge feeling that just like Kassadin he is going to be in the sight of Riot Rifle Nerf in the next patch in my opinion they just take away the assist reset which will leave him strong! but a little more risky to play (RIOT likes to do that in general) but the worse case scenario which might occure > Q spell nerf = less damage = no-one wants to play it anymore except people which love Beatles crickets and stuff like that :)
Hope my explanation was enough in depth for you. (and for the voters)
Because Cloud9 THATS WHY!
ReplyDeleteNo without kidding i think the main reason is those freaking mushrooms which are always invisible and the pink ward change + trinket system makes the most frustrating yordle to play against make fun of us...
Every one would agree that he will deal more damage w/ his shroom than with his other abilities!
Let people abuse it and the Riot Nerf Rifle will not miss him! (maybe after 1 or 2 skins to make some $$$ lol jking!)
Heco is kinda right about how Aatrox is squishy in this beefy meta. Good point made.
ReplyDeleteAatrox require a good understanding of whats going one while champs like he said goes HAM Shyv Tryn Renek Mundo like hey i got tons of substain!!! Aatrox is not the case...he is more like Rengar a sort of Predator! You need to catch as much windows on one of their carry (the most fed the best ofc) but he can really shut one of them super fast after i really love his passive because most of the time people are split in 2 targets you & your carrys which everything goes so fast that the favor goes to your team except if your carrys did a mess and got HAM like a chicken in KFC factory...
and the best scenario possible is that the enemy team focus you down while they take heavy damage from your carry while you just go down > passive > finish the job > Victory!
But OFC its not an easy champ to play but he belong to those champions like Viktor/Wukong which underplay doesnt mean bad pick just require a greater understanding on the field ;)
I would say he suffer from some sort of syndrome similar to Nidalee in opposite way.
ReplyDeleteNidalee is great in some sort of siege tactic of locking the enemy under their turret and poking to the death while Heimer is like oriented in opposite way which is defensive with his mini turrets & poking ability (grenades - missiles)
I got nothing against him but the master words of an APC in the current meta is Mobility/High Damage (Ziggs,Kayle,Syndra, etc...)
So patch 4.1 just hit us today. I finally got to test Mundo and the effects of the item nerfs on him. So far, he feels pretty much the same. Cleavers are still annoying (and hilarious to keep chucking at the enemy team) while still remaining unbelievably annoying to kill.
ReplyDeleteWith regard to the item changes, Sunfire Cape doesn't feel like it loses much of it's oomph since you'll be around level 9 if even if you're trying to rush it anyway. (34 bonus damage per second. That's just 6 points away from the old sunfire cape)
The spirit visage is what I feel the most though. The healing still makes you hard to kill, but the cleavers feel slower now because of the loss of CDR. While I'm still able to chunk a good amount of cleavers around, it's slower than before, and missing just one could secure the enemy's escape. (Though I was kinda lagging. About 230 ms so the throws feel sluggish.)
So yeah. It's just as you said. He's still strong. But not overwhelmingly retarded like before. Gotta watch your cleavers. :D
Stop comparing LCS to SoloQ!
ReplyDeleteNo body is a pro player here not even SSJ. You aint got sponsor on your shirt! (no offense just play at your level!)
1- LeBlanc is a higher skillcap champion people want to believe to.
She is an assassin that needs to snowball from early to mid game! (which is harder to do than to say!)
Despite that even with great score she fall in late game to the rest of the team! her teamfight impact is lower than a Swain Ziggs Kayle or others mention in this list.
Except if you are Platine/Diamond player with a team that understand what they play but also what YOU play it makes the game more enjoyable ofc but its not the case of the 3 league under (Bronze to Gold) in those league if most players know what they play thats already good and almost too much asked! So running LeBlanc in those Division is like what people say from running elixir + pot when starting the game (High Risk High Reward)
2- Anivia she is indeed a great champion but require a real team in my opinion playing it in SoloQ is just not a bad idea but far also to be the best. in term of tankiness/substain Swain/Gragas/Orianna/Kayle will most likely outperform her team in teamfight if you see where im going.
3- Just like Tristana AP...Kog'maw AP is no exception! Its glass canon its like playing on a wire! require higher skill/knowledge than the usual player which usualy doesn't work as intended !!!
Again those mention works better in Higher Elo than the most common League! and ofc the most important in experimented hands!
Bottom Tier 1 & Top Tier 2 is almost the same if not the same!
ReplyDeleteWell detailed! Same for Twisted Fate ;) Koreans still use it quiet well!
ReplyDeleteOnly NA & EU will QQ about nerfs :p
I think we tend to over estimate the champions in it self less than the player behind it. True that your farm will not be as consequent in jungle than top but like Jones said he got the point you will not get bullied top and since Renekton is extremely popular atm its really a bad bet imo even if i agree the late game and so team fight impact of Wukong is so underrated but in jungle he face almost no difficulty with decent jungle clear & his ninja gank by activating the decoy from the bush to the lane is really awesome!
ReplyDeleteTrue but the thoughts behind SSJ action is that since people are always complaining of the lack of "fun" support to play i kept it for the support while he moved it down for the mid lane not because of the nerf but mostly for the support part i mentioned above and also the fact of keeping the tier god fresh as slim as possible!
ReplyDeleteHope you agree with the thoughts and understand that if the list was made by everyone in this comment section every champion would be god! ;)
Drugs are bad! Mkay?
ReplyDeleteIm going to answer you question with another question! Why not?
ReplyDeleteNein! Support Annie too stronk! Whats wrong with Tier1 ?!?
ReplyDeleteYes?
ReplyDeleteWell you want her to get nerfed again? I mean the drop of popularity is always better than being in the top of the radar! Her damage are still increadible i must agree but just like Annie i feel her impact in botlane even stronger!
ReplyDeleteI can understand your basing this on her result in SoloQ but lumping her in Tier 2 with Soraka and Karma is misplacing her. As a support main she is one of my top three (along with Thresh and Leona).
ReplyDeleteI respectfully disagree with the need for great synergy during laning. Her kit provides multiple forms of CC, a speed up, a shield while maintaining as good a poke as any support.
When looking at ranking supports I also think you need to look beyond the laning phase. Unlike some other supports, Lulu continues to excel post laning. Her utility when fights break out is on par with anyone's. Her ultimate is an absolute game changer and when played at the right time can completely turn the tides of a team fight. At the same time her ability to protect her ADC is tremendous. All the while she can still provide some damage.
I think her win rate will rise and hope to see her move up the list.
Touché :) as expected!
ReplyDeleteTo be honest im not such support guy so your experience must be way ahead mine (even if i supported one of the best ADC S1-S2 EUW :D)
You just confirmed my thoughts even if i couldnt and still cannot confirm it there are like 6-7champs left to buy and Lulu is one of 'em but with your in depth description i see your point!
I think the support with the one i perform best is most probably Janna! she is also very underestimated atm...Its always the same picture those last weeks Annie>Leona>Thresh 90 if not 99% of the time
Do you think Lulu is better than Nami/Janna or just about the same?
Maybe a little under Elise & Vi since the Flag nerf which was making Jarvan a must pick for his individual abilities but the buff it was giving before was so FAT for taking objectives!
ReplyDeletei think that rammus , sejuani and naut must be at tier 2 , xin tier 1 ,j4 tier 1 , olaf tier 1 , shyv tier 2 , wu and grag tier 1 thats my opinion think about it
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insight. Apreciated.
ReplyDeleteTier 1 [Really Strong]:
ReplyDeleteSupport: Alistar
Explaination wu?
ReplyDeleteI do believe Lulu is a better support than Nami or Janna. For overall utility I think she outshines them both. Nami is very dependent on landing her bubble. I do like Nami and play her as she does provide some sustain that Lulu lacks. I feel Janna is more situational and I really only play her when I feel we will need heavy disengage. I really think you should give Lulu a try :)
ReplyDeleteYet mid lulu is on the list... like I said, that is so much weaker than a machine gun lulu.
ReplyDeleteThis is a picture FYI
ReplyDeleteI will ASAP but my next 6300ip waste is split between my next 4 big and last purchase of the game Lucian Lulu/Nami & Rengar...
ReplyDeleteMaybe you will have impact in forcing me to take the last yordle :p
I have to disagree with your statment of AP Kog'maw, he is so strong right now hes not like AP trist cause AP trist is burst doesn't really do well in lane but Kog'Maws ulti allows him to farm if hes losing lane he plays as a extremely safe poke champ and is so good in teamfights cause he can shread tanks with his e and with anyone of these items (Nashors, Lich or Wit's End). I have a friend that got from silver 5 then he started playing AP Kog'Maw and he gold to gold 2 in 2 weeks of playing hard. Underrated/Underplayed but very strong carry
ReplyDeleteI think rumble should be raised to tier 1 even with the tanky meta he can build magic penetration and is super strong in lane, if you stay in the danger zone and use q it deals so much early damage. He counters jax, renekton, Dr.mundo, nasus etc. Also in the mid lane he melts ap mids if he lands his e uses q and w for soaking up retaliation, his win rate is steadily rising again and on lolking he is currently in the top 10
ReplyDeleteRumble should be put in tier 1 he is currently very strong and with magic penetration can melt tanks easily in the top lane. He counters guys like renekton, jax, nasus, Dr.Mundo etc. He is also very strong in the mid lane if he lanes his e then q and uses w to soak up damage he can do alot and zone the mid laner. His win rate his risen steadily
ReplyDeleteWell if it works good for you :) i know the damage for both of it.
ReplyDeleteWhy is wukong god tier? Exp please
ReplyDeleteIt's weird how coincidentally when I take tier 2 champions and notice how amazing they are and win game after game with them, then they get moved to God tier in the next patch or two after. This happened with Vi, Ziggs, Shyvana, and now Kha'Zix too. I guess it's good to see more Kha'Zix though. I'm tired of seeing Kha'Zix players evolve their camo then spikes and rushing tear while they are 0-3.
ReplyDeleteNaturally tanky(especially in teamfights), has an AoE knock up, and massive AD scaling.
ReplyDeleteIm a big fan of Rumble my self but the problem is that he deal enormous DoT as AoE with his Q and R which are awesome the only problem is in term of pick...the quantity of soak up damage you can take with those you mention are more than half of what rumble can really take so you really need to have at least a beefy jungler with you.
ReplyDeleteBut you are right on the overall resume of Rumble :) but well since the nerf of his ultimate which was amazing...1/2 HP of an ADC APC on impact before was like AWESOME!
You must be a medium or some like that right?
ReplyDeleteIt's weird how i can carry with champion Tier 3 while im not QQing about 'em being Tier 3 and deal with it!
SSJ wasn't God? Not the creator of DOTA & LoL? Someone lied to me???
Pretty much the whole top lane meta does well against our sad monkey king. In laning phase any tank or bruiser like garen,
ReplyDeleteNo it's there's an actual living human being behind these pixels.
ReplyDeleteHe was being sarcastic. See how he used "Ever"
ReplyDeleteJust like gold 5 and plat 5.
ReplyDeleteHoooo trust me the difference between those 2 are often so minor :)
ReplyDeleteand no see the space between bottom Tier 1 and top Tier 2 as Plat V & Gold I.
An headless man indeed!
ReplyDeleteShe can't beat any assassin in lane and as a support pick she's outshined until they re-work the AP support item to be something useful. Copenhagen Wolves ran Zyra mid against Gambit Gaming this past week and in the Zyra v. Kha'Zix match-up Zyra just got feasted on. Any kind of mobile assassin can evade her telegraphed CC, that was one of the main reasons people started playing her in the bot lane in the first place was because those champions are largely much less mobile. She's got a 50/50 win rate so I think she's balanced (not strong), but a big part of those 50% of games she loses is in bad matchups.
ReplyDeleteMost people who play LeBlanc and Zed don't have the mechanics to make the champions work. That's why their win rates are so consistently low.
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by Chad, I appreciate the constructive input :)
ReplyDeleteI think she's okay, but if she falls behind or goes even her late game is painful.
ReplyDeleteSome Champions have more obvious skills that make them seem stronger simply because they're flashier.
ReplyDeleteI've seen it work before. I've also seen it fail horribly before...I think it's very gimmicky though
ReplyDeleteWhy ap kog is that low?
ReplyDeleteI feel like Corki is the most underrated ADC atm. Just saying :)
ReplyDeleteLeBlanc Tier 3 Mid-lane? Explanation please!
ReplyDeleteI find that talon is extremely strong due to all the nerfs to other assassins, as well as his raw power for carrying if you get ahead. Also, people generally underestimate him (especially at 6 with ignite)
ReplyDelete[Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]
ReplyDeleteMy most played champs still aren't in God Tier, and I hope they'll never get there for God Tier is the realm where the monster Morello lives with his aweful weapon called "The Nerfbat", he is indeed..A God Slayer.
ReplyDeleteThe changes for Kha'Zix are already at PBE.
ReplyDeletetl;dr version is:
His Q will lose about 30% of its scaling.
His E will lose plain half of the damage.
His ult will now let him go through units, though.
He will still be playable, but not very strong at all. I expect to see him at tier 3 or 4 next time.
If he still got Reset for Kill & Assist > Tier2
ReplyDeleteHow do you feel about karma jungle i would put her at least tier 3
ReplyDeleteI totally agree that mobile assassins are her counter but in all honesty they aren't a hard counter. I have been playing her since day 1 and i can easily see how kassadin, fizz, akali and a few others could destroy her but my point is that she is safe. I mean, way too safe. If you play against a mobile assassin she is one of the few champs, in my opinion, that completely has the option of farming and harassing from a distance. Yeah, you may not "win" lane against a kassadin but you can #1 deny farm with consistent harass and #2 farm your face off. That is really the only thing that sets her apart. Due to her plants range on top of her's she becomes one of the ultimate safe lanes which I think puts her above a lot of mid lanes. I am not saying that she has the strongest harass or burst or anything, she is way outclassed in almost all those respects but her strong utility, the fact that she is completely AOE, and her safe laning makes her extremely strong.
ReplyDeleteAs for support zyra, I have really never seen the appeal. I play her as a main and regularly have to take her support but she doesn't really shine there in my opinion. I suppose I just personally like seeing a well farmed zyra blow up the enemy team with a well placed combo. not saying she isn't a good support but I would rather have someone else, maybe just because I hate the new AP support item.
I don't want her to get nerfed but it makes me sad seeing her so far down on the list. I suppose it's the opposite for me. I see the appeal of support zyra but I feel like she offers more mid lane just because if she doesn't "win" the lane she can at the very least freeze it pretty much no matter who it is. I suppose my biggest gripe about mid zyra vs support zyra is the damage. I love her damage output and even building support items on her I regularly come out of a game with one of the higher damages for the game but being able to acually go AP and nearly blow up a team with her combo just feels... so good. Not trying to argue with anyone here i just have higher hopes for her than being so low.
ReplyDeleteand come on she is next to elise and sion.....
ReplyDeleteLeblanc, I'll agree, and Anivia i can see where you are going. But the AP Trist and AP Kog comparison is just so far off. With 450-650 AP, you can get about 11% damage off with every auto, and on top of that with nashor's tooth you can get about 1.25 AS. Also, the amount of chunks you can get with his Q and E on top of sustain damage with W and R, he holds a very big balance between nuking and massive sustained damage. He's not a one trick pony/reset heavy champion like trist that you just said.
ReplyDeleteAatrox is that good?
ReplyDeleteThe most underrated champ? No sir, that would be Poppy. Swain's making a steady rise back into competitive play. The problem is that people WANT that "lot of damage fast" quality. Swain also NEEDS an early kill or two to dominate his lane. If he's up 2 kills, once he hits 6, he's going to walk right into that laner and slaughter them as they realize they can't possibly kill him now. If he gets behind, he's dead weight all game. He's going to have mana problems FAR beyond anyone else, and his ult won't do him any justice in team fights. Building armor / MR (Aside from SV) on him is a waste since his ult NEEDS damage, but that leaves him vulnerable with ONLY health to rely on. Building a Seraph's is also insanely hard with his CD's, and he doesn't really have any good CDR items to go with his kit, especially with the nerf of Spirit Visage to 10% instead of 20%.
ReplyDeleteOverall, Swain is too snowball / health item dependent. He has to sacrifice a lot of damage potential to keep himself alive, unlike other champs. Unless he can pick off low-health enemies later on in the game, he won't be doing much at all for his team aside from soaking up some damage for them. If he doesn't get bursted down, the fights will last too long for him to keep up with his insanely mana-cost ultimate. Junglers will also likely take blue buff if they're ahead of him in Solo Queue, which leaves him fairly screwed.
Personally in my experience and from watching others if a wukong just farms with high cs in lane against a strong match up and gets ganks (ofc u can't always rely on junglers in solo q) he can still do alot with a black cleaver. I see alot of wukongs build a ravenous hydra when they are behind but if they build full tank with a black cleaver as thier first item wukong changes dramasically.
ReplyDeleteBasically wukong gets free mr and armor off his passive and if he builds tanky naturally he extremely strong in team fights couple this with 30% armor reduction (from q) 25% armor reduction+10 armor penetration from black cleaver.
By mid-late game you should have boots, black cleaver and at least 1 tank item so this is easily accoplished.
I also mentioned that lee sin cant out trade the monkey and seriously don't know why people consider him a counter to wukong. Garen also can't beat wukong but because of garens sustain and wukongs low sustain a garen can out sustain a wukong.
He is very strong but without any items he is really weak and most of the time i see them destroyed early so they never really get anything behind them. and then yes, i think a reliability on the team plays into it as well.
ReplyDelete"it is possible as long as you can survive" chances are he won't survive. karthus is barely a mid anymore and he is very squishy with no escapes or any reliable cc that will actually prevent anything. look at the top supports and you will see karth cannot do anything to stop them or even inflict much damage.
ReplyDeletejust go look at the pro videos of teemo mid. he is crazy.
ReplyDeleteZyra's too situational. At the moment, Annie's the big deal, especially considering Tibbers just got a HUGE CDR reduction. There's NO reason to pick Zyra over Annie for support, since either way it's a kill lane. If it's not Annie, it's Leona.
ReplyDeleteAs for mid, anyone who can successfully pull off an ROA like Swain, Kassadin, Gragas, Annie herself, etc etc, won't be taking NEARLY as much damage from her plants. Champs like Swain / Gragas will endlessly outsustain her, and with the AOE they have, her plants won't last long enough to be sufficient. Like Chad had said, any assassin like Kha'zix who can instantly burst her will do exactly that, and she won't be able to do a single thing about it.
She requires far too much of a setup. Say a Kha'zix jumps on her, her plants will hardly do anything since she'll just about insta-die. Also, she'd likely have been using her plants to farm, so she won't have seeds readily available at her side if someone were to come into melee range of her. She's not an insta-burst kind of champ like people want. She takes time and a sure set-up to get kills.
At the moment, there's really 0 reason to use her. She's not bad, but she's FAR from top-tier.
don't underestimate soraka or karma. WIth new support items Raka is stupid with her heals. and Karma has too much ability to focus down one person to burst them down for her adc. each has their own strength. I've never been good with Lulu but i've seen some very good players with her and she is scary but it's solo que and Soraka and Karma are much easier to play with and require less synergy.
ReplyDeletewhy though? i'm curious. rammus sej shyvana and naut are 4 of the best tank junglers in the game compared to the rest. the meta is about the tanks and to be honest they are much easier to play than j4, olaf, and wu.
ReplyDeletea tank that also does huge damage. one of the best tops in the game with a shred, high sustain and high mobility.
ReplyDeleteI am not saying top tier I just don't think she should be as far down as she is and I'm not saying her plants will do all that much but usually i rush a seraph's embrace with her for the dmg and mana regen. which allows her to bypass the assassin issue but allowing her to farm under tower with her plants giving her more range. I'm not saying she would win lane against a kha but unless the kha can simply bypass everything he shouldn't win against a good zyra either. with the sustained damage she gets from the plants and with a safe laning phase you can just rely on your cc and turret to kill the assassin as long as you're safe.
ReplyDeleteand I'm just saying she was top tier mid a few patches ago. Her nerfs hit her hard but not THAT hard. I still think the argument as to why she was top tier is still valid. Her aoe and damage are always going to be immense which is kind of what she is built for but unlike lets say swain or annie she is a much safer champion, at least in laning phase. Being on the squishier side she has a harder time after laning but still has immense presence in team fights.
I just want to say again, this is about the list not necessarily players. I've seen players play her hyper aggressive and get destroyed but i'm saying she has one one of the safest farming methods and laning phases out there which build her into an actual threat in late game. Not saying she is god tier or even the top half of tier 1 but I do think she brings a lot more to a game than anyone above her in tier 2 in my opinion and a couple people in tier 1.
Can I just point out that yasuo is the most broken champ I have ever seen.... His item scaling is broken. His e is ridiculous on the fact that it is infinite and also can anyone else describe why he doesn't have a resource??? #spam buttons all day .....
ReplyDeleteShouldn't the list go God Tier - Very Strong, Tier 1 - Strong, not Really Strong?
ReplyDeletesorry but I want to add on that I did watch the game with Gambit vs CW and to be honest it just reinforces my point. Zyra is a safe lane and a strong laner. Once she started actually staying back and was less aggressive zyra had an easy time just farming and had no real issue with kha. When kha did initiate on her, when she wasn't trying to just all out kill him they went 1 for 1. and plus i think its hilarious listening to the commentators talk about how dumb it was to pick up Athene's as the first item. So while Zyra may not be the best mid or even top 10 I still think she deserves to be higher on the list.
ReplyDeleteI am interested in why you've left Syndra off of the support lists. Riot classifies Syndra as being a support. She has the longest multi-target knock back and stun in the game. The stun is a counter even to Blitz's pull, and has the ability to stun both opponents during such pull. That utility also transitions well to late game as Syndra can easily prevent advances by knocking back/ stunning enemy teams.
ReplyDeleteAd kog'maw mid is tier 4 ap kog'maw not on this list anywhere.
ReplyDelete