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SEASON 3 - PATCH 3.6 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
Preface Chatter
It's a been two weeks since the release of Patch 3.6 and about time to update the tier list!
This week we're going to try something new. Since many of you have noticed that champions have different roles and it's a little ambiguous which role a champion might be Tier 1 in, I've divided each Tier into roles. Let me know what you think in the comments section!
As a recap, here are the changes in Patch 3.6:
Nerfs: Nasus, Vi,
Buffs: Dr. Mundo, Karma, Malzahar, Nunu, Olaf, Sivir
Tweaks: Sejuani, Trundle, Lulu, Quinn, Thresh, Udyr, Zed
The Tier List
God Tier:
Mid-Lane Gods: Twisted Fate, Rumble
Jungle Gods: Nautilus, Hecarim, Sejuani, Fiddlesticks, Rammus, Zac
AD Gods: Miss Fortune, Draven
Top Lane Gods: Rumble, Singed
Support Gods: Thresh, Janna, Sona
Tier 1:
Mid-Lane: Diana, Kha'Zix, Zed, Malzahar, Swain, Kassadin, Zyra, Kennen, Jayce, Cho'Gath
Jungle: Amumu, Jarvan IV, Nasus, Diana, Cho'Gath, Kha'Zix, Lee Sin, Volibear, Maokai, Elise
AD Carry: Twitch, Varus, Caitlyn, Ashe
Top Lane: Kennen, Elise, Jayce, Wukong, Renekton, Irelia, Lee Sin, Udyr
Support: Taric, Blitzcrank, Soraka
Tier 2:
Mid-Lane: Kayle, Talon, Vladimir, Elise, Ryze, Lux, Anivia, Karthus, Nidalee, Katarina, Ahri, Evelynn, Orianna
Jungle: Udyr, Shen, Nocturne, Leona, Shaco, Vi, Xin Zhao, Zed, Warwick, Malphite
AD Carry: Sivir, Ezreal, Vayne, Tristana, Graves, Thresh
Top Lane: Jax, Kayle, Kha'Zix, Riven, Vladimir, Tryndamere, Teemo, Nasus, Shen, Cho'gath, Yorick, Zac, Darius, Volibear, Garen, Zed, Malphite
Support: Leona, Lulu, Nunu, Zyra
Tier 3:
Mid-Lane: Morgana, Fizz, Akali, Pantheon, Mordekaiser, Cassiopeia, Brand, Galio, Xerath, Annie, Master Yi, Sion, Gragas, Viktor, Lulu, Fiddlesticks
Jungle: Riven, Pantheon, Dr. Mundo, Trundle, Nunu, Skarner, Jax, Kayle, Darius
AD Carry: Kog'Maw, Quinn, Corki
Top Lane: Warwick, Xin Zhao, Pantheon, Nidalee, Akali, Galio, Talon, Trundle, Fiora, Dr. Mundo, Poppy
Support: Nami, Elise, Morgana, Nidalee, Lux
Tier 4:
Mid-Lane: Lissandra, Syndra, Veigar, Kog'maw, Zilean, Leblanc, Tristana, Janna, Ziggs, Ezreal, Heimerdinger, Karma
Jungle: Shyvana, Rengar, Olaf, Master Yi (AD), Tryndamere, Gangplank, Fiora, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry: Urgot
Top Lane: Rengar,Gangplank, Shyvana, Olaf
Support: Alistar, Kayle, Yorick, Karma, Ashe, Zilean, Leblanc, Fiddlesticks, Ryze, Caitlyn
- Heroes in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Heroes in Italics may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these heroes are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
Hero Explanations
- Akali - Akali's shroud changes have not been kind to her, and as a result her win rate's dropped. Her damage is still decent, and you can definitely still surprise people with a double proc on her Q + R combo, but she's very squishy and has trouble with the new stealth mechanics.
- Alistar - I want to like Alistar, I really do...but he's simply a little too weak at the moment and his win rate proves it. His jungle clear time is too slow, and his headbutt nerfs from way back are still proving to be too much to handle. Without his Flash up, he has difficultly controlling the flow of the game.
- Lee Sin - A lot of you are probably wondering if Lee Sin is still strong with the nerf after nerf that Riot's dealt to him. He is. Despite his lower than average win rate, his utility is pretty much the same caliber as Irelia; even if his damage isn't what it used to be, by outplaying his opponents, he's still Tier 1 caliber.
- Leona (Jungle) - I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it myself, but Leona's very very strong in jungle and deals a good amount of damage, even if you go more towards AD than AP.
- Lissandra - Lissandra's got some really interesting mechanics and good spell utility, but she's just so darn easy to kill...she's similar to Morgana, but at least Morgana gets a spell shield. We'll have to see more of her, but so far she just seems like a fun glass cannon.
- Rengar - His laning presence is good, and I've definitely seen him do well, but more often than not he becomes a meat sack.
- Sejuani - Her changes have made her SO strong. She's definitely one of the most powerful junglers at the momet.
- Syndra - Just like Alistar, I would like to put her higher, and have seen people do well with her. However, her abyssmal win rate and level of difficulty to execute her full potential hold her back.
- Thresh (AD) - See more here. He's definitely got some low range, but he also compensates for that via his skills. I also love his auto-attack animation.
- Thresh (Support) - Thresh's utility, damage, and surviviability have somehow made him into a viable AD carry. Obviously this means that as a Support he shines even higher. (Think Taric level)
- Trundle - His buffs have made him stronger, but he's still a little boring to play, so I think that's why his win rate isn't as high as it could be.
- Twisted Fate - He's still the same guy he used to be..his nerfs can't come soon enough.
- Udyr (Top) - I don't think he's near the level of broken that he used to be (yet) but Udyr top is definitely very very strong at the moment.
- Veigar - I think Veigar should be stronger. After a few more nerfs on AD assassins and AP champions come back into mainstream in solo queue I think that Veigar should definitely see an increase in the tier list. Zed makes his day rough.
- Zed - Now that people have got the hang of him, Zed is definitely showing his colors as a powerhouse. I'm still not sold on his jungle though, I think it's very lacking in utility.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
What do you think of the new format? Comment below!
Where's Jungle Fiora?
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I don't think Jungle Fiora's worth mentioning at the moment, but I'd say she's better than jungle Alistar so I'll add her in for the sake of completeness.
ReplyDeleteI think that you may be too harsh on Kog'Maw. I had a blast with him this week while he was free, he's a true AD hypercarry (along with Vayne and maybe Tristana). Yeah, he has no escape mechanism other than that gooey thing, but his late game is one of the best...all that it takes is a good position and bye-bye tanks.
ReplyDeleteHey Filip, you're right that Kog'Maw is an extremely strong late game carry, but I think in comparison with other AD champions in Tier 2 his late game strength doesn't make up for his early to mid-game weakness.
ReplyDeleteWhy is skarner so low? He seems to have good and hanks and decent clear time.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know Fiddle's tier position as a mid laner. He seems powerful there. Also is very nice that the list is now considering the different roles each champions can cover, it makes it even more informative.
ReplyDeleteGreat job on the Tier List! :D I like how you put a GOD TIER in it. But I seem to miss the old tier list since it's more simplified if you asked me but that's just my own opinion. Great Job on the Placing too, but Malzahar became a no show into a Tier 1? How?
ReplyDeleteLove the tier lists, keep em goin, however, I was curious as to why Udyr isn't atleast Tier 1 jungling? He is easily better than Maokai or Volibear jungling (both are tier 1), with his sustain, speedy jungling, and incredible gank stuns in bear form.
ReplyDeleteIs that you xfioramaster18? :p
ReplyDeleteMust agree with you!
ReplyDeleteImo his range skills makes him very vulnerable compare to many different midlaners
ReplyDeleteBetter than Maokai? I wonder how since Maokai has really strong CC spells!
ReplyDeleteAfter we can compare Volibear & Udyr which seems more fair...
Both engage spells "Bear Stance" for Udyr & "Rolling Thunder" for Volibear gives both 15% move speed additional BUT Volibear get an increase of 15% so 30% when going toward an enemy!
Most likely due to him being very reliant on his ult. With it, his strong, without it, he falls behind other junglers.
ReplyDeleteThats my guess.
Malz got buffed? Must go find patch notes.
ReplyDeleteFirst SSJ! Respect for the new format of the tier list! that's awesome!
ReplyDeleteSince many champions tends to be Top/Jungle like Udyr Lee Sin etc...So far so great! :)
I think its almost complete just one is missing to my eye its Zac Toplaner.
2days ago i got hard counter by a Zac with Singed...since he is manaless and really annoying with his health recovery its like throwing a rock in a hole when you try to 1v1 him...and if you fall behind he will zone you hard!
Else i must agree with all your tierlist there are some champions where a debate will always be something to discuss about...between player skill, abilities, cc, utilities, etc... but your tierlist seem highly accurate!
My only and biggest disappointing feeling in this tier list is the new champion...Lissandra!
She is seriously OP just people tend to play it in a wrong way, too expensive at the start and too early to make a speech about her but Tier4? Really?
Well brace yourself since she will be minimum Top Tier1 midlaner or even God Tier...
Here is a footage of SoaZ(Diamond 1 EUW) toplaner of Fnatic RC (european team) which won the last LCS final against Gambit Gaming. (Sorry for you guys the show is in french and no way to get subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3PZjRTCiIA (the game starts at 20:00 if you don't want to get annoyed by the french discussion) if you want a resume he goes 11/1 in less than 20mins...and for him its going to be a must ban/pick champ very soon...
One more missing > Toplane Trundle :)
ReplyDeletejungle udyr is a lot stronger than you say he is, he can take a nautilus uot because udyr can clear faster and gang more at early lvl, its only in late nautilus is good Vs udyr because he can stop you from take the enemy carry out whit stun and much damage for phoenix stance and 1 sec stun after 6 sec.
ReplyDeleteNah.
ReplyDeleteI'm just a fanboy of her lore appearance and kit.
Im just kidding :)
ReplyDeleteMalzahar's damage was already decent, and his lane control was always good because of his waveclear. However, with the mana reductions he's more spammable now mid-game even without blue buff during teamfights.
ReplyDeletenice tier list, and i actually really like the fact that its divided by roles. but i got some questions, first of all i think GP should be higher than tier 4. He has great damage and poke in lane, his E and W make him hard to gank and he can build quite tanky without having to sacrifice a lot of damage. So why do you think he belongs in 4? another question: why is zac in the god tier? i have been playing him lately and i really like him, he's very strong, but why do you think hes stronger than junglers like for example, jarvan?
ReplyDeleteshaco tier 2 jungler ? wut?
ReplyDeleteCan you add Elise support?
ReplyDeleteGreat job!
ReplyDeletelove the new list
ReplyDeleteIncase not, then should hire a lawyer. At best hire a lawyer who
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Hey great list! It is very helpful! I am just curious as to why you chose to move Shyvana down to Tier 4, previously in Tier 3? I personally think she is one of the most under valued junglers in the game, as her strengths rely in sabotaging the opposing jungler, while becoming a late game invincible massive AoE dmg powerhouse for teamfights that help secure victories.
ReplyDeleteThis is my first time commenting, but I have been reading for 6 months, I usually agree with most of your tier list, but with the new format I have some questions. I do like the new format, but why are Ryze and Caitlyn are listed under support and some more common "uncommon" supports aren't ex: Elise, Volibear, Syndra, and Lissandra. I have never seen or heard of Ryze or Caitlyn support, but Elise support was even played a few times in LCS. Also why is Soraka higher than Lulu, Soraka falls off late game but Lulu stays relevant all game.
ReplyDeleteI think that if people didn't build Lissandra like a typical Mid laner she wouldn't be so easy to kill, I play her more like an AP tank and it works out much better than glass cannon. I usually get RoA, Liandry's, Sorc Shoes or Ionian Boots. The rest is situational: a Frozen Heart or Iceborn Gauntlet if I need Armor, Morellonomicon for CDR/MRegen, Abyssal for MR, for my 5th or 6th Item I will get a Deathcap or DFG. I also go for 9/21/0 masteries with my standard AP runes: AP Quints, MPen Marks, Armor Seals, and MR Glyphs.
First list where I agree with almost everything.
ReplyDeleteHey David, I think Lissandra definitely has potential. Right now she's definitely not doing so hot, but after a few weeks we'll see how it's going. Her win rate isn't nearly as high as Zyra or Diana on release though, that's for sure.
ReplyDeleteI think Skarner's just very lacking in terms of the utility he provide, and his low win rate shows him being phased out by faster champions with better CC. I think it's not so much that he's bad, but other junglers are that much better.
ReplyDeleteI think Fiddle's too niche as a mid-lane to be placed on the tier list at the moment, he's mostly chosen as either a counterpick or by people who just happen to be fiddle in the middle players which are far and few between.
ReplyDeleteUdyr's definitely very good right now, and there are a couple more changes incoming on him. He's been steadily getting moved up since his changes, but being at an even 50% win rate I don't think I can say for sure he's Tier 1 material just yet.
ReplyDeleteI linked them in the first line for convenience :)
ReplyDeleteHaven't seen enough top lane Trundle to make a judgement call, all I know is that people think he counters Yorick but I've never lost to one as Yorick.
ReplyDeleteHe got a slight buff in 3.6, and the meta is starting to favor him more.
ReplyDeleteGangplank is a decent champion and by potential he's a little lower than he could be. The reason why he isn't that high is simply because there are heroes that fulfill his role better in almost every way both top lane and in jungle.
ReplyDeleteYou can beat someone using GP by outfarming and outplaying them, but his kit doesn't allow much room for jukes. At the moment a lot of strong champions are purely damage based (see Zed) and don't rely on CCs to do well. GP in comparison loses his most unique advantage (besides farming lots of gold).
Shaco in the right hands is of course God Tier. The problem is that playing Shaco at that level takes a very long time to master and a special type of person to do it well. In comparison with the majority of the LoL population, the champion used in an average sense is Tier 2.
ReplyDeleteI could. I shall.
ReplyDeleteShyvana's just very lacking at the moment, without Phage or Frozen Mallet, too many champions get away during ganks. In the end she just ends up farming the jungle, and there are other junglers with better clear times and tankier skillsets.
ReplyDeleteHer win rate reflects this as the 9th lowest as of now.
Hi Erin, thanks for posting!
ReplyDeleteFirst off the Ryze and Caitlyn supports are more there as an inside joke rather than for completeness sake. 5 months ago I posted on the possibility of Ryze being a viable support here: http://www.nerfplz.com/2012/12/unusual-supports-made-viable-by-s3-item.html
Ever since then I've been plagued by people proving me wrong.
As for Caitlyn, I have a close friend who's trying to make it work...but it's not.
Soraka's actually very very strong late game, despite Lulu having a more visible presence in the game. Soraka's ability to help a team win a teamfight through sustain is amazing, but even more so is her armor buff on your glass cannons. A single well timed Soraka heal is the difference between Zed killing your Draven and your Draven killing their entire team.
Although you might argue that Lulu can do something similar, just remember that this skill is Soraka's primary ability while Lulu's is her ultimate. In comparison, Soraka can heal an entire team with her ultimate, which is also amazing in today's AOE heavy team compositions.
I will be adding Elise support shortly.
I agree that Lissandra definitely has potential, which is why she's italicized for now. She'll likely be moved up as people figure out workarounds for her weaknesses, but as she's played now, her 43% win rate isn't cutting it.
Thanks for posting! :)
While I don't think it's by any means perfect, I do appreciate your compliment :)
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Zilean Support doesn't exist any more?
ReplyDelete(might want to check your tier list)
-
While I'm here, care to explain why Warwick is so darn high on the Jungle tier list? I mean, his ult is great, but I don't find him extremely effective outside of that.
I've wanted to forget about Zilean support for so long...I was hoping nobody would remember...
ReplyDeleteWarwick's high on the list because he's got a great steroid for AD carries, a really simple to use ultimate, provides good vision, and is innately tanky. Although his pre-6 ganks aren't that great, his utility later on is immense. If your team can survive without strong ganks early game, they're rewarded with a super tanky initiator late game.
Well explained sir! :)
ReplyDeleteEven SoaZ said he will force the spanish midlaner of his team(Fnatic RC) xPeke to play her since she has fantastic skillset!
ReplyDeleteYou can even see him in the video going to the fontain using ult on himself + Zhonya = Unvunerability for 4Sec (and he did double kill :p) so imo its a little bit too OP! (wish my TF could do it :( )
Hi dude, love your tier list ^^
ReplyDeleteJust some fact i dont agree with you
1st : why soraka can be 1st tire sp.She weak early, easy to kill. You want to face leona, lulu, sona , elise, bliz, thresh bot ? its 0% win rate
2nd: swain, malhaza, kassadin tier 1 ? . I dont think they get any near your tier 2 list like : ryze, elise, kayle
Thanks Vu, Soraka's Tier 1 since she's extremely consistent, and can do her job properly without being super tanky. A lot of team compositions are also getting more poke oriented now, and she excels with her sustain. As long as you can control your lane bushes, Soraka is a very strong pick.
ReplyDeleteElise is definitely very strong top lane, but mid lane she can get bullied by a lot of champions due to her recent range nerf.
Swain, Malzahar, and Kassadin have all either been buffed or untouched while Ryze, Elise, and Kayle have been getting hit by various direct/indirect nerfs. Even though they're still very strong in their own right, people are used to the damage they put out and can react accordingly, which makes them lose their effectiveness.
Swain, Malzahar, and Kassadin are seen a little less so far, and tend to snowball extremely hard with simple laning phases. This means that most opponents aren't ready for the amount of damage you can put out, and lures them into fights they normally wouldn't engage.
SSJ let me take you on this one...
ReplyDeleteYou mention some junglers are better than Skarner that's for sure!
But here again i just think people prefer plays whats mainstream and Skarner as usual lack some love!
Ok let's take Skarner(Tier3) and Warwick(Tier2) i actualy think pre6 and even post6 > Skarner rape Warwick in most sides!
Skarner has a slow CC and not Warwick...
Skarner has a hard stun ultimatee Warwick too but can be disabled!
I think its unfair :( you can just watch my friend stats maining jungler role over 40games he got 70% win rate which is really high imho!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A41981vq9s
ReplyDeleteA good exemple Trundle vs Zed
Google also found them for me but many thanks still (I might of been lazy and skipped the first few lines :P)
ReplyDeletecan kha'zix go top?
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to Amumu? How is he not god tier?
ReplyDeleteAdded her in, thanks ezequiel!
ReplyDeleteWhen did Rammus become a stronger jungle pick than J4/Nasus/Cho/Voli, etc?
ReplyDeleteCan you add dr.mundo top
ReplyDeletenidalee swain vladimir top khazix sion and rengar jungle dr.mundo top and tristana mid probably
ReplyDeleteBlitzcrank Kayle Kha'Zix Rengar Shen JUNGLE Ezreal Fiddlesticks Janna Kog'Maw Lulu Tristana MID Dr.Mundo Galio Nidalee Shyvana Talon Vladimir TOP Kayle Yorick SUPPORT is missing
ReplyDeleteAny love for KhaZix jungle? He snowballs incredibly hard with just a few k/a's and a Spirit of the Elder Lizard. His build is relatively cheap for how much damage it ends up outputting (SotLE - Brut - BT - LW). I'm not suggesting god, or even tier one, but imo should definitely be included if you are going to include Zed, since they serve the same exact role in the jungle.
ReplyDeleteWhy and when did lux, who has been tier 1 for a while, drop down to tier 2?
ReplyDeleteHi Derrick, nothing major happened specifically to her, but a lot of the more popular junglers who were more easily kited like Xin Zhao are losing favor to champions that ruin Lux's day, like Zac.
ReplyDeleteThe return of Kassadin into popularity also puts a sever damper on how effective she is as a safe pick.
After nerfs all around, Rammus has always been effective just because of his speed, but before he couldn't duel any popular junglers. The nerfs have evened the playing field considerably.
ReplyDeleteI actually forgot about Kha since this is the first time I'm working through the list with separated roles. Kha'Zix is indeed very very strong in jungle and definitely worthy of a TIer One placement in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteHi Narre, thanks for picking up on the ones I missed. I'll definitely be adding some of them in, but honestly a lot of them are so obscure that to rank them would be strange. Half of the people playing the roles would be godlike, while the other half would be completely useless.
ReplyDeleteI'll do my best to add them in though! Thanks again for listing them out.
How about Malz jungle? Even though I saw it on EG in EU LCS I'm still thinking it's a troll pick.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what these pro players see in Lissandra, but they tend to play her like a boss and go on massive killing sprees.
ReplyDeleteI really wish everyone especially the average players can figure it out, because right now, I wanna facepalm every time there's a Lissandra on my team.
Mostly because the average players use "Glacial Path" as a damage source instead using it as a last combo to give the enemy a last killing blow...or keeping it in case of hard gank...
ReplyDeleteShe simply get those 41% win rate from those players buying her full price (7800ip) or the full bundle just to be like "look at all the money i got" :)
I do understand that SSJ has to do the tier list on fact and statistics...
I dont see Shen anywhere
ReplyDeleteCan you explain why Garen and Shen seem to be steadily dropping on the list each patch? They were both top tier and i haven't seen many nerfs for either of them (especially compared to other characters).
ReplyDeleteSorry to say, but you missed AD TF
ReplyDeletead twisted fate as been buffed so hard for season 3, you have no idea. In fact, its my main.
its 3x stronger than season 2, just try to go critical damages runes and Sword of the divine and you'll see...
my guide: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/critical-ad-carry-tf-293731
Twisted Fate nerfed...even if its a small one WTF is wrong with RIOT ?
ReplyDeleteI am suprised that Karma is still at tier 4. I have been playing her mid since her relaunch and she is outright insane. Her dmg, coupple with good range and an area of effect makes her able to bully almost any other champion away (I have been beating people such as lux with ease, and people with shorter range just becomes unfair.). Even better, her ability to root and shield herself makes her quite hard to gank in mid. Early game she can almost oneshot most people with her ultimate, and even in lategame i usually take out half the health bar of most non-tanks. She is great at catching and escaping, and while most AP carries limits these abilities to themselves, she can even apply them to her teammates, and ulti with shield can easily turn a team fight around.
ReplyDeletePlaying Karma mid right now is like getting your cake and eating it. You combine the dmg potential of a carry with the utility of a support, which makes her extremely powerful. Based on my experiences I would place her at least at tier 1, leaning towards Godmode. Once she is fed, she has been able to take on the entire enemy team, kill some of them, and still get away alive!
I don't agree with you by putting Lissandra on tier 4. I would put her tier 1, she has weak laning, but strong teamfight capabilities and insane damage with some items. Can disrupt an entire enemy team and can 100 0 almost anyone. On top of that, she has great mobility and escapes, even with low base speed.
ReplyDeleteIndeed he can, although he's got some bad matchups top lane. I'll add him in though.
ReplyDeleteHi Seujai, Amumu's been nerfed a few times and other junglers have been buffed, which makes him a bit weaker now in comparison. He's still strong, but there are many more viable junglers.
ReplyDeleteThanks Kevin!
ReplyDeleteHi Christopher, a lot of the more popular champions when they were Tier 1 were close-ranged melee based champions. As the meta's been shifting towards a more kite-oriented team comp (Jayce, Lux, Blue Ezreal, Kennen), these heroes start losing their effectiveness as a dominating presence. When Garen's spin starts hitting 2 people instead of 3, his damage decreases by 33%, and similarly Shen taunting 4 and Shen taunting 1 is a major difference.
ReplyDeleteHi LOTRKingluis, with the latest patch about to hit with the aspd buff for TF I might just have to add him up there...
ReplyDeleteKarma suffers from a lot of the same things Lux did. Without landing her skillshot, she does almost no damage while she waits for her cooldowns to come back again, especially if she used her mantra on her Q.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, her range isn't all that great compared to Lux, so if she misses that slow, she has very little room to get away. 1v1 she does well, but in a teamfight she has survivability issues, especially against long-ranged poke comps.
Hi, interesting list for sure! My comment is abaot Lissandra.
ReplyDeleteI've seen some players use her incredibly good.
Her kit is very versitaile, like a EEWR combo can be really effective, and she has a choice to self cast or enemy cast on the ult. A Zhonyas make this even cooler although it might be cheese.
Also her E is a good escape and a decent gap closer.
She actually has a slow, root, escape/closer and a stun. That's Incredible CC really.
Her scaling isn't very good with AP though (65,60,60,70). However i don't believe this to be low for her 'purpose' ( I don't know what that is yet). What i know is that in a teamfight, she can bring some real havoc with AoE stun and pretty damn high damage. Couple that with her ability to jump walls, escape, damage and scare just with her E.
I'd say it's too early to tell what tier she might be in, but 4. No.
Personally i'd say she's not dangerous alone, but might be gamechanging in a teamfight.
Thanks for your list.
Cheers
Back again, a few more questions, if you don't mind.
ReplyDeleteWhere would you put AD Kennen on the list? I mean, his passive can make him a pretty devastating.
How did Sion get as high as he is on your list? I can't imagine him being a better mid than Lissandra, overall.
On the topic of Udyr, what sort of builds do you believe are effective for him right now? Do you see Tiger Udyr as being the way to go right now, or the Phoenix/Bear/Turtle Udyr?
That sounds like a good lissandra strat.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if those players get better in time (I wish) her win rate might improve. :D
Hey man I love your lists, but do you think you might be able to do a 3v3 version? Since with these new tier lists sectioning champions into lanes its a bit hard to judge them in a 3v3 situation. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteTrue, however what I have found helps is that even if she doesn't do direct damage, she still brings utility to the fight, very akin to lux i admit. Also, even if she misses her slow, her shield boosts movement speed, meaning that you only have to land one of them, and ulti+Q does not need to actually hit the target, since it does full dmg to the affect area, and moves faster than Lux's Q, so an exchange with lux is typically that i simply move out of the way and then shoot her right back. She does suffer from minions seeming to always move into the way, which is a huge nuisance, but at least the aoe means she can still hit champs standing right next to their minions.
ReplyDeleteAs for the cooldowns, I barely ever notice them, mostly due to building her AP/CD, and usually manage to pull ahead in lane to have a head start once we get out. Have yet to try her against rumble or TF, which are rarely played in my queues, but against all other APs I have found she feels a little easy to win with, even against natural predators such as akali, since she can still hit them without seeing them and the shield allows her to survive the burst, leaving them waiting on their CDs while her ulti+W occasionally lets you heal through the fight. More importantly, her utility combined with the ability to potentially carry is what i really like for solo Q as it allows you to have a very large impact on the game besides simply being focused on her own performance, the same reason that a good support wont kill much but still can change the outcome of the game by improving others.
But I can totally see where you are coming from. Of course now i will simply have to play her up to diamond myself just to prove you wrong, which should be fairly easy with her based on my experience so far ;)
Dunno if SSJ got time for that but if you really want a great one and right now use the SAM one!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-lists/threes-tier-list
Love the new list but zyra lower than soraka support ?
ReplyDeleteHey, I just wanted to know why you have Kayle listed as only a Tier 3 Jungler. I main her at the moment, and from what I have been able to accomplish with her, I would consider her a Tier 2 at least if not a Tier 1 Jungler.
ReplyDeleteJungle Kayle is capable of clearing camps faster than anyone else except for perhaps Mundo, and her early game damage output, speed boost and slow make her ganks extremely brutal pre-six. Post-six, she gets even stronger due to her ability to tank a turret or allow a diving ally to do so. Combine all that with the fact that she snowballs into one of the most ridiculous jungle carries in the game with a few kills and you have an extremely strong jungler.
I'm not extremely sure as to why, but I think it has to do with her not being able to provide any hard CC, requiring teammates (don't forget that this list is for solo-queue) to figure out what to do when you give them your ult, and being a little difficult to play relative to many other champions.
ReplyDeleteShe's viable, I think, but I wouldn't list her as top-tier or anything. In most situations, there are a handful of junglers I'd rather have. Not to mention Kayle tends to be useful in-lane as a counter-pick, instead of as a jungler.
(Just my two cents. I don't claim to be an excellent player, but this is what I figure would explain the author's positioning of Kayle.)
Yeah I know, just saying, but I'd rather keep her out of the list instead of putting her in a bad tier. She has insane potential.
ReplyDeleteUrgot top lane? Where would he be on the tier list. Personally I think tier 2
ReplyDelete3.7 Rumble nerf :/
ReplyDeleteWhy is Shyv t4?
ReplyDeleteI checked some pro build US & EUW played her twice yesterday the first was a totaly disaster the second was already more productive!
ReplyDeleteShe tends to be really hard to play but far from impossible :)
Welcome :)
ReplyDeleteMaybe I have some innate skill with AP mids, because the first time I played with her on a normal game ended up with 9 kills. Then without playing her again, I jumped into ranked games with her, so far 6 wins 1 loss, 85.7% win rate with a KDA of 8.6 3.4 8.1 and an average 166.9 minions per game. Not bad considering for how long she has been out and my rating sucks (EUW Silver I)
ReplyDeleteShe most probably deserves minimum Tier 3 thats true but well...she is far from the Top 10 jungle right now :(
ReplyDeleteNot bad at all :)
ReplyDeleteHe is atm Tier 1
ReplyDeleteHonestly, if rumble deserves top "God Tier", so should jayce. Jayce has only 1 counter = yorick. This means he is extremely viable top lane, not to mention the fact his early to mid game scales extremely strong with a shen. Late game he falls off a bit, but can stay in the game with a lastwhisper and Ruined king's sword (4% total hp as physical damage per autoattack) , being able to destroy tanks with his W (2.5attackspeed for 4 attacks) in small bursts.
ReplyDeletegreat list seems mostly accurate however i noticed u missed jungle taric who has great ganking ability with his stun. Instead of really playing the jungle, he ganks alot more to get fed, the more fed the laners = win
ReplyDeletetop lane nunu?
ReplyDeletemy favorite champ jayce <3 finally tier 1 on list. =( alot of people will use him now.
ReplyDeleteIs Jayce ADC viable? He was played in LCS summer promotion by Quantic
ReplyDeleteAD Kennen say is okay, but I'm not sure how high I'd rate him. He hasn't been played much, and his ult is less effective without a zhonyas.
ReplyDeleteSion's very strong, it's just a numbers game with him. His waveclear and simplicity just works.
I'm not good enough at 3s to make a 3s tier list at the moment...I was platinum 3s season 2, but ever since the remake of the TT I haven't played much.
ReplyDeleteHey Alexander, Soraka's really strong right now, almost obnoxious considering how easy she is. Zyra's still very good though.
ReplyDeleteHi Chris, when I think of ADC Jayce I think of more as a bruiser + support bot lane hybrid rather than a true ADC lane. It does work, but it's a different playstyle.
ReplyDeletei like the new division by role :)
ReplyDeleteI feel that jungle Nunu is pretty stronk atm. Do you think he will get more play at this role due to the changes?
ReplyDeleteLot of people used him still!
ReplyDeleteCC > CC everywhere!
ReplyDeleteHook + Passive Stun + AoE Slow + Ultimate Knockup what else do you need?
ryze in tier 2 but malzahar in tier 1 ??? wtf ? pls explain me
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to Jarvan top ?
ReplyDeleteKog 'maw should be god tier. He just eats everyone late game, I mean EVERYONE. He is hard to play early but if the rest of the team does well too, it's gg!
ReplyDeleteProbably not, Riot just weakened this playstyle since they nerf heal of consume.
ReplyDeleteShyvana is really in a bad place now.
ReplyDeleteShe doesn't have enough damage, counter jungling is all she's good for, and she probably can't chase or kill anyone without ult AND phage/frozen mallet.
My two cents.
ReplyDeleteKog'maw currently suffers from how there are other better and safer carries (that have escapes or CC) that have more range on auto attacks, and passives that work while they are alive. (Exception to safer carries is MF, who just has too much AOE.)
Also, due to that short AA range you will need even more reliance on teammates to protect you, a coordination level you can't expect from solo queue.
Finally, his % health damage is less appealing since other AD has either % health damage or can build BOTRK.
Ryze is tanky and has sustained damage, but from a mid we would usually expect them to blow someone up, or have a huge spike of early-mid game power especially at level 6. Malz gives that along with CC. Plus Malz' mana costs were lowered giving him more leeway to spam.
ReplyDeleteFinally, while QSS still blows up Malz' ult, the current meta is armor stacking (probably to stop BOTRK), and QSS is counterproductive in this regard.
Pretty sure jayce is countered by nid and irelia, and a couple more. Idk why you brought shen into this and, his w applies for 3 attacks not 4.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Top lane Vi? :o My usual go-to top champ for a while has been Vi, and I usually do very well.
ReplyDeletevayne is definitely above tier 2
ReplyDeleteDisagree on Lulu, as a reasonably good support main she is excellent in solo Q, if u play very aggressive and poke constantly she is horrible to deal with, and when the time for that 2v2 engage in the bot lane comes, their adc is a slow, knocked up squirrel and ur adc has a few hundred more health, she's just very strong when played right. When team fights come, its pretty much the same except now its 3-4 members of their team knocked up and slowed and its your bruiser with a significant health boost, just all around a good champion.
ReplyDeleteHi Adam,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to only see the strong points from Vayne i really like her a lot even if i don't play her so much but you must understand she is form those ADC with an early syndrome...
She is one of the best ADC late but if she gets into trouble early/mid and the game cannot reach late game properly then you will go down and there is nothing you can do about it.
Hope you understand !
Hi SSJ, Just comming by to mention.............. its UPDATE TIME!
ReplyDeletelol jking take your time and thanks for the effort :)
Exactly my thoughts :)
ReplyDeleteHowever, solo has some limitations with use of shield and giant growth because of lack of team coordination. These skills will usually be forced to be used defensively.
ReplyDeleteIn competitive play Lulu can more consistently shield the ADC who will instead do the poking, for more damage... and can do offensive plays like pre-shielding a diving initiator like Shen, Nocturne or Vi... before safely following the diving initiator during the chaos and use giant growth on them.
I don't think your definition of God Tier/Tier 1 fits the definition on the article. Kindly read the descripion of the tiers.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Jayce/Teemo as ADC are completely unviable and fun picks at best, which is why they aren't even considered on the list. Thresh ADC is fairly viable. Urgot has to go somewhere.
And finally, this tier list article is based on how idiot-proof the champions are, an average player list, so it doesn't bother splitting EZ into low skill and high skill play.
i dont see any description of the "Tiers" but "god" generally refers to the super op fotm champs, majority of the champs even in this tier list is typically pick or ban (tf/sej/thresh/hec are very often picked/banned whilst the rest are very often picked and are considered very strong) but thresh adc is not more viable than jayce adc and yes i understand jayce is not viable but thats exactly my point. if u were going to include non viable adc such as urgot/thresh....then u'd have to include a plethora of other champions and if u were to go how idiot proof champions are, then ezreal is definitely not joe proof as u can see on things such as lolking charts that in every ranked soloQ tier(i know im looking @ 3.7 stats not 3.6 but no change has happened to ez or his build, if anything it shud b higher since cait(1 of his counters) got nerfed) his win rate is below 50% below diamond because idiots are copying blue ezreal if ur definition of how idiot proof the champs r then ezreal would fall in tier 3 or 4 as of right now
ReplyDeleteCan you explain why Rumble is in God Tier?
ReplyDeleteMaokai support missing:P
ReplyDeleteDid you click the "Click Here for a description of the tiers" to see the description of the tiers?
ReplyDeleteyea but there is a reason why asian proplayers rate ryze as the best champ atm
ReplyDeletehe is tanky, deals aoe dmg and got insane late game
I think Ryze fits more as top than mid these days based on my (self-made) mid criteria. :)
ReplyDeleteTankiness, flame thrower still deals too much damage (have to have more skill to stay in danger zone now, though), and totally game-changing ultimate.
ReplyDeleteWill this list be updated soon since patch 3.7 really changed some champions, especially some of the top tier ones. Thank you.
ReplyDeletewhile this is true youre neglecting to factor fioras damage steriod that gives her the highest damage scaling of any ad champ in the game. sure if the adc stands near allies durring the duration of the ult they will take less hits. but if fiora is having even a semi decent game 2 hits will kill any adc other than urgot b4 they get a defensive item, & playing fiora is mainly a positioning battle so if you dont allow them the option of quickly taking cover amongst friends you will kill the adc even if you are not doing so well that game. add to that that her lifesteal & passive apply to her ult she will be coming out of that assassination with full health. she could definately use some cc to bump her into a position where ppl will fight over getting her but as it is if you have good positioning map awareness & farm, fio can be one of the best jungle choices to round off a tanky team comp with some damage. i would put her at 2nd tier maybe 3rd, as she is obviously very situational but i think she is better than the other tier 4 jungles you have listed.
ReplyDeletewell if you want a game changer with slowing, escape/closing mechanism. a knock up & aoe ult i would play sej. same idea as lyssandra as far as the game changing cc, but way tankier & way better dmg scaling for how tanky she is. i realize shes not a mid lane but jungle top or support she can give your team that kind of cc you are looking for without as big a chance of losing a lane early.
ReplyDeleteHey, how come Lux is in tier 2 this list?
ReplyDeleteI know she received nerfs, but she still seems be a very strong mid laner.
Everytime I play against one, she zones our mid and then just snares and kills everyone in teamfights, and her her stupid range keeps her safe.
I think cass should be a tear or two up as she was buffed more than most people realize in the last patch. by making her twin fang a single target spell, her damage with the burn mask and rylais has increased phenominally.
ReplyDeleteDiscuss?
or is there more at work here than I see?
Yes, this list will be updated soon!
ReplyDeleteNothing thats the thing :)
ReplyDeleteYou replay a disqus and not me? you betrated me :'(
ReplyDeleteWell there are champions which are tier 2 in SSJ list but turn tier 1 material in good experienced hands!
ReplyDeleteHope you understand the real meaning!
SSJ needs proof...and since nobody pick her yet :(
ReplyDeleteIn term of pick she is between Olaf and Veigar...which is really not cool!
ReplyDeleteShe has better winrate but still...47% is not good enough :(
Bad luck...i wouldnt consider viable just like Sona mid its great early game but more the game last the more SHE will get WREQed :)
ReplyDelete