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SEASON 3 - PATCH 3.9 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
Preface Chatter
This tier list is coming up quite fast after the latest patch, earlier than usual. This means that I'll likely have to do another one in a week or two once the changes have set into place...anyway Patch 3.9's brought quite a few changes, including some much needed nerfs and buffs:
Nerfs: Hecarim, Kayle, Kennen, Nunu
Buffs: Corki, Malzahar, Shyvana, Ziggs
Tweaks: Brand, Draven, Jayce, Leblanc
Also in this list I'd like to note that all the AD carries seem pretty even at the moment.
The Tier List
God Tier:
Mid-Lane Gods: Kassadin, Twisted Fate
Jungle Gods: Amumu, Fiddlesticks, Rammus, Sejuani
AD Gods:
Top Lane Gods: Singed, Wukong
Support Gods: Janna, Sona, Thresh
Tier 1:
Mid-Lane: Zyra, Kennen, Malzahar, Diana, Jayce
Jungle: Jarvan IV, Zac, Nasus, Hecarim, Nunu, Cho'Gath, Evelynn, Nautilus, Lee Sin, Volibear, Maokai, Elise
AD Carry: Varus, Caitlyn, Ezreal, Vayne, Draven, Graves, Twitch
Top Lane: Tryndamere, Kennen, Elise, Renekton, Yorick, Jayce, Nidalee, Irelia, Riven, Lee Sin, Udyr
Support: Nami, Taric, Blitzcrank, Leona
Tier 2:
Mid-Lane: Brand, Kayle, Ryze, Mordekaiser, Talon, Vladimir, Elise, Fizz, Ahri, Viktor, Lux, Anivia, Nidalee, Zed, Cho'Gath, Xerath, Swain, Karthus, Katarina, Evelynn, Orianna, Ziggs
Jungle: Udyr, Warwick, Shen, Kha'Zix, Nocturne, Malphite, Leona, Shaco, Vi, Trundle,Xin Zhao, Diana, Shyvana, Zed
AD Carry: Miss Fortune, Tristana, Kog'Maw, Corki, Ashe, Sivir
Top Lane: Jax, Kayle, Rumble, Ryze, Teemo, Aatrox, Kha'Zix, Vladimir, Nasus, Shen, Cho'gath, Zac, Darius, Volibear, Garen, Zed, Malphite
Support: Soraka, Lulu, Zyra, Alistar
Tier 3:
Mid-Lane: Morgana, Kha'Zix, Akali, Pantheon, Cassiopeia, Galio, Annie, Master Yi, Sion, Gragas, Lulu, Fiddlesticks
Jungle: Riven, Pantheon, Dr. Mundo, Skarner, Jax, Kayle, Darius
AD Carry: Quinn
Top Lane: Jarvan IV, Warwick, Fiora, Xin Zhao, Pantheon, Akali, Galio, Talon, Trundle, Dr. Mundo, Poppy
Support: Nunu, Nautilus, Shen, Morgana, Nidalee, Lux,
Tier 4:
Mid-Lane: Lissandra, Syndra, Veigar, Kog'maw, Zilean, Leblanc, Tristana, Janna, Ezreal, Heimerdinger, Karma
Jungle: Rengar, Olaf, Master Yi (AD), Tryndamere, Gangplank, Fiora, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry: Urgot
Top Lane: Rengar,Gangplank, Shyvana, Olaf
Support: Kayle, Elise, Maokai, Yorick, Lissandra, Karma, Ashe, Zilean, Leblanc, Fiddlesticks, Ryze, Caitlyn
- Heroes in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Heroes in Italics may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these heroes are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
Champion Explanations
- Brand - Brand's always been a powerhouse in terms of damage, and deals a decent amount. The main reason why his strength fell was a mixture of AD burst assassins coupled with people getting used to dodging his skillshots and damage. However, with the minor buffs, Brand's definitely been brought back into spotlight with heavy nerfs on a lot of other champions across the board. I think we'll definitely see a comeback. Luckily I have Zombie Brand waiting...
- Corki - Corki's buff was pretty decent, and I think he's very on par with other AD champions now. With his reduction in playability for the last few months, I think he's also got a decent surprise factor in place.
- Draven - Nerfs hurt. He's still viable.
- Ezreal - Although a fed Ezreal is strong, we can't really say he's any better than any other AD carry at the moment. This tier's all pretty even...
- Fiora - Fiora's numbers are actually a lot better than I initialy gave her credit for. With the continual nerfs on tank items across the board, her ability to win trades with pure damage has increased, and while she's not overpowered by any means, she's at least playable against some common top lane champions.
- Hecarim - Continual minor nerfs have brought him down from overpowered to viable. He's still good, just not an auto-ban.
- Kassadin - Kassadin is seriously overpowered right now. With Nunu nerfed, you'll be seeing more twisted fate and kassadin bans for sure. Even if you shut him down, he'll always come back with a vengeance.
- Leblanc - She did get some changes, but she's still not popular, and her late game still isn't that good without some early snowballing. Plus her waveclear is still pretty bad, which doesn't work well in the current meta.
- Malphite - Malphite's been getting some very low playability lately...of course with AP mages all the rage lately it's no wonder, but I think his ultimate is still very good.
- Malzahar - I know I've owed you guys an explanation on Malzahar for a while now, and I've been putting it off since I knew he was insanely strong, but I couldn't really explain why. Here's what it is in a nutshell: His poke has always been good, and his voidlings are strong. But the reason why he's REALLY good is because he has the ability to kill almost any tank in 2~4 seconds seconds flat with his W + R combo, and his E can chunk half of a squishy's life by itself. With that amount of peel and continuous damage, he's pretty much a one-man army. After soloing a Nautilus, Leblanc, and Shen simultaneously, you'll understand what I mean when I say he's ridiculously strong.
- Nautilus - After the initial wow factor when he came back into play, people are now back to being cautious of his ganks, and are willing to flash to prevent a hook. He's still a pretty slow jungler, and easily counterjungled. Although he's good, without some ganks he falls behind other junglers quickly...his ultimate is still insanely good though.
- Nunu - He was nerfed. Still playable, but no longer Nunu Norris.
- Rumble - I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so...Rumble simply isn't as good as he used to be, and the stats prove it as he stands at a 50.08% win rate - hence he'll stay in Tier 2, the balanced tier.
- Shyvana - Her buff was pretty decent, and I think she's viable now. Pretty simple character, so it's really a matter of numbers.
- Tryndamere - Top lane Tryndamere...I considered putting him in god tier, but after all the complaining I get about Wukong I'm a little hesitant (seriously, Wukong has the second highest win rate in the game and there are still people who don't believe me when I say he's op?) Anyway, Tryndamere's trading power is decent, his sustain is good, and his pushing power is insane. Even if you manage to beat him once or twice in trades early on, unless you can build enough health to sustain through his invulnerability and enough damage to kill him through his lifesteal, his late game is an unstoppable pushing force.
- Twisted Fate - He's still good, but I'm considering moving him down...a lot of champions that counter him are becoming FOTM, and with teleport becoming a popular summoner mid lane he's losing some effectiveness via getting counter-ganked. He's still real good though, just with his wave clear, sustain, and ability to stun from jumping outside of ward range.
- Vayne - Draven nerfed you say?
- Viktor - Okay, Viktor's pretty decent, I'll accept that he's playable since his CCs are good and he does have the ability to 100-0 an enemy champion even if he misses his laser. I still think he's unreliable, but his damage is definitely there and his AOE is hard to outdamage in tight quarters.
- Wukong - Out of all the flack I get on my tier list I'd say that Wukong by far gets me the most moans and groans. I'm not sure why I still have to explain why he's OP, his trades are good, his initiation is good (really, who's going to get an oracle for Wukong?) and his ultimate is insanity. He's had a top 5 win rate for 4 patches in a row, and currently holds the #2 spot in win rates. When he becomes the #1 ban in LCS and gets nerfed by Riot, I expect some humble e-mails admitting the monkey's power.
- Ziggs - Ziggs got so many buffs, I mean wow. I still don't think he's OP by any means, but anybody against a Ziggs with blue buff and some CDR certainly will, I may move him up in the future, but he's still pretty squishy and can be unreliable in a pinch.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
Bro i rly like your CTL´s but in my opinion ryze sure is tier 1..if not god tier.. maybe its because i almost just play him and kas..but u cant rly trade against a ryze... u cant cc him if he is halfway smart, 3.10 even more movement speed inc for ryze.. ryze just 2 stronk.
ReplyDeleteRest of list brilliant, have a good day
Patrick
I'd like you to elaborate on your opinion with AD Nidalee because I consider myself pretty skilled with her but in terms of solo queue it's hard to carry with her on your own.
ReplyDeletewell, you know, varus is the best right now.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Swain tier 2? Just wanted to know your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteSwain is imba in teamfights his w is a 2 second snare is ult is consistent AOE heal and burn he should be t1 imo
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you had any thought on Jungle Aatrox. I feel like he is pretty good with his dive, slow and ridiculous sustain. This would give him good ganking potential at lvl 2/3/4 depending on skills.
ReplyDeleteWhy did you dropped Nami to T1 after having her on God Tier on the last patch?
ReplyDeleteI was wondering why you still think about Lissandra, its recently getting popularity in the Lcs aswell and some bans aswell. I just don't agree Lissandra should be tier 4, maybe a little higher to like tier 2.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea why you think Karma is so bad...
ReplyDelete150% AP scaling on her R > Q -- this is a hugely reliable poke. She has a lot to offer in team fights. Her lane harras is great. She has wave clear. She has reliable CC and damage. She is an amazing kiter.
Seriously, mid Karma isn't bottom of tier 4.
But god damn, her win rate is awful. Abysmal. I don't get it. Same with Syndra. They offer so much utility compared to other burst mages and yet have such bad win rate.
where's Leona support
ReplyDeleteTier 1
ReplyDeletelol was it always there wow im blind sorry ! :(
ReplyDeleteNami's still really really good, it's just difficult to say that she's on par with Janna, Sona, and Thresh at the moment.
ReplyDeleteMorellonomicon is OP right now in terms of stats it gives, so Swain's late game is countered by a lot of high CDR poke mages like Zyra and Malzahar.
ReplyDeleteRengar tier 4? He was picked at LCS, he carried, he is a common pick for top nowadays and has amazing burst early game, mid and late game if fed can kill ADC or APC in one combo. He deserves tier 3 or 2 at least
ReplyDeleteDraven listed as tweaked, it was a nerf overall.
ReplyDeleteEz and Cait are still gods in ADC roll, they still have too much power/utility compared to other carries.
Kassadin and TF OP.
Why did you tell people Malz was strong? I enjoy'd playing him with people not knowing, it was good fun!
*Pretty simply character* You might want to change that to Simple* I think.
Tyrn is god, your not wrong there and I agree with you that he is god tier.
More Ziggs buffs!!! I like playing the little man.
Wukong is strong, played him for the first times this weekend, enjoyed it, interesting play style, never got a chance to test full power because we either won early (other team surrendered) or our team surrendered (before even a single team fight went off after I just 1v1'd their second biggest damage dealer and killed him with over half health left).
Monkey is strong.
Rumble isn't bad, problem is the low level players still play him like before, in higher matches his still pretty decent.
Nerf Janna.
Buff Shyvana.
Hey, how come you put Quinn in Tier 3, i personally think she belong in tier 1 tbh.
ReplyDeleteDoes know what he's talking about. DOES
ReplyDeleteI've noticed that you forgot to mention roles for some of the champs. What tier does Mid Soraka, Mid Poppy, Jungle Poppy, ADC Poppy, ADC Kayle, Jungle Garen, Support Mundo, Support Malphite, Mid Malphite, ADC Yi, Top Yi, Support Nasus, Mid Nunu, Top Nunu, and ADC Tryn fall in? I'm curious because I use your tier list as a reference to what I need to ban and play. I know that the meta of the melee ADC's don't do too well against the current meta of the ranged ADC's but I would still like to know where they stand compared to the rest of the champs. I also know that the meta of a ranged ADC and armor/utility supports don't do too well against a meta of a double bruiser bot.
ReplyDeleteADC Poppy. Tier 9; will never be viable.
ReplyDeleteI'm a bit confused, which one is more op, Wukong or Singed, because right now I see that Wukong has a higher win rate. So who is more op?
ReplyDeleteOut of all of those, the only ones I'd consider at all viable are: Mid Soraka, Mid Poppy, Jungle Poppy, ADC Kayle, Support Malphite, Mid Malphite, Top Yi, Mid Nunu, Top Nunu, and ADC Tryndamere. Mid Soraka's not all that good, but can work, while Poppy is ideal as a top lane, but can work in the jungle or mid-lane under very certain conditions (she's gank-reliant as a jungler and very matchup-reliant as a mid-lane). ADC Kayle is okay, but I'd play almost any other ADC over her. Malphite isn't a terrible support, but he doesn't provide as much CC as I'd look for in a support, typically, and needs a little bit of gold to be useful late game. He works mid-lane as a counter to some AD mids, which are losing popularity. Yi is decent as a top-lane, it's just that he's a carry, and typically top-laners fill the role of having decent mid-games as well. Lane Nunu was hit pretty hard by the changes, but it's still okay. ADC Tryndamere isn't especially viable, since you're so open to pressure, but his sustain and carry potential means that some potential lies there, IMO.
ReplyDeleteI would agree with this to an extent. Rengar's triple-Q nonsense gives him a ton of burst, which happens to be applicable to structures as well. He has an extremely hard time with certain matchups, though, and if he doesn't get items he can fall off rather hard. I'd still place him in Tier 3, though.
ReplyDeleteHave a look at the champions that are placed above Ryze for both top and mid lanes. As strong as Ryze is, there are certain champions he has a tough time dealing with, like Jayce. He's not god tier because he has these weaknesses, and he's not Tier 1 because these counters are popular. (at least, that's my interpretation of the tier list)
ReplyDeleteLB is a Tier 4 champ, but I don't think it's because of her waveclear. They've moved around the purpose of being able to snowball as a mid without the help of the jungle. Plus the nerfing of her ult dmg and putting it off to late game is really sticky. DFG is a viable item, but you just can't farm/get fed anymore as LB with a 200 dmg ultimate at rank 1. Other champions simply have more dmg early on.
ReplyDeleteYour right, he does.....
ReplyDeleteI'm confused.
uh wheres rengar??????
ReplyDeletetier 4 jungle tier 4 top
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately this tier list seems to be getting less and less agreeable to me. Keep it up though, I'll keep reading as long as you keep providing analysis and updating regularly, even if I disagree with a lot of the placements.
ReplyDeleteNo Aatrox?? maybe hes a top tier jungle?
ReplyDeleteCan i ask why Mundo is a tier 3 top laner? i play him a lot at this position last days and i win all my lanes (not including jayce and elise machtups) and in late game he is a unkillable walking giant.. and with sunfire and w you deal a amont of dmg...
ReplyDeleteWhat about top lane TF? I've seen KiwiKid do it and would like to know what tier he would be.
ReplyDelete3.10 will be a nerf more than a buff if the change are kept. Yes, he gets a tiny bit more MS but his range is nerfed on every ability. If that goes live,
ReplyDeleteI actually don't think Singed is OP after the nerfs to fling and ult. Wukong's good but not OP either. I think the best top laners are so close together that the term doesn't apply.
ReplyDeleteomg where is Gangplank support?
ReplyDeletei agree with you about the Wukong, he is very underrated by many ppl even tho when they play against him he is so hard to counter even with a very good champ. And if the Wukong is a really good player there i nothing to do really. So my point is that i agree totally with you; Wukong is OP if played well :)
ReplyDeleteOfc he is op if played well and the opponent doesnt know what to do against him, but you have to be very good to do that and since we are speaking LCS/PRO league this list doesnt have the big effect on pro players. After all they are pro.
ReplyDeleteYes, KiwiKid --> A pro, like Dyrus started playing kennen top before it was op, but yes you right tf top is good but mostly if pro.
ReplyDeleteThat's because people dont know how to play them... you can easily carry games with them, in the right hands... same with veigar... I mean, who would call tier 4 a 4 second aoe stun with 8 seconds cd that has a 100% ap scaling on both his W and his R, a stackable ap on Q (that with some cdr gets about 2 sec cd) that can burst down any character ingame, even 4khp tanks with the dfg...
ReplyDeleteSinged's lane phase is ridiculously strong but i think that he is not OP because he can't carry a game that easily. Correct if i'm wrong
ReplyDeleteYou can't just use win rate to justify OP.
ReplyDeleteAlso, LCS teams aren't gonna pick up Wukong cuz he's 53% win rate across all Elo. Amumu is 3rd right now and is almost never used in the LCS. Same with Rammus and Trynd and Teemi and WW
you should also consider that LCS is a 5v5 premade opposed to solo queue. LCS is more about team comp than anything
ReplyDeleteYes he is a major tank, but he is too easily kited and doesn't have hard cc or engage in team fights. If mundo isn't especially fed or behind, you can just ignore him in team fights
ReplyDeleteYou clearly don't play top lane if you think an ADc can carry a game.
ReplyDelete^
ReplyDeleteThat is why win rate doesn't matter that much in the LCS
I always come here for fun, what a joke this tier list is.
ReplyDeleteTier 2 Jungle: Udyr, Warwick, Shen, Kha'Zix, Nocturne, Malphite, Leona, Shaco, Vi, Trundle,Xin Zhao, Diana, Shyvana, Zed
Haha Xin, Nocturne and Vi behind Warwick, funny joke 10/10
Kha'Zix mid tier 3? U wot m8, he's easily tier 1. Talon, Vladimir, Elise and Viktor better than Kha'Zix mid? Nope. Just no.
Fiddlesticks tier 4 support? Below Ashe and Leblanc? Do you even think about what you're putting on here.
Hi Mike, I'm glad you had fun.
ReplyDeleteum buddy the top lane isnt called a Carry BUt adC the c is Carry. Didnt think that u knew about that
ReplyDeleteUrgot if u build tanky enough and have a rengar building adc he will hurt thr enemy team so much
ReplyDeleteWhat about Swain top?
ReplyDeleteIt says in the title that this is for SOLO QUEUE. Not LCS. So I think win rates are quite relevant.
ReplyDeleteEh. I think the high burst champs having a low win rate is weird. LeBlanc, Syndra, , Lissandra, Karma and Veigar can all pretty easily remove an ADC from a fight before anyone can "peel" them. What's in common with those five? They all have huge bursts. They all can 100-0 an ADC, without DFG.
ReplyDeleteI mean... Karma's mantra'd-q has 150% of her AP scaling every 21 seconds with 40% CDR, and if she lands it it drops half that CD or more. How the fuck is that bad for team fights? Her laning is safe, and she has that awesome poke.
Yet... how many times has Voyboy carried?
ReplyDeleteI know it's impossible to create a list based on division, but how viable is Nasus top in bronze? I play this quite often and have had some success. I'm assuming people don't do this at higher because he's easy to counter but in bronze that doesn't seem to matter and my Q gets pretty big to the point where I can almost always out-trade late.
ReplyDeletei think nasus is pretty good for bronze. He's a great tank and can do a lot with his fed Q. Just make sure you peel the dmg on your team with your wither and not always just dive for their carries
ReplyDeleteIf you read the article, he mentions that Wukong would probably be picked up by LCS and then be nerfed by Riot. That's what I'm referring to.
ReplyDeleteI see your point. But I still think that you can justify OP with win rate in solo queue
ReplyDeleteWhy is fizz in tier 1? Not agreeing or disagreeing just wondering. He has the ability to burst an adc from full health to none without being that fed.
ReplyDeletewhy are the god tier junglers gods right now?
ReplyDeleteHalf of these seem to be in the right spot, the other half looks like you just dumped names in to fill the list.
ReplyDeleteWW is not a tier 2 jungler. Maybe a tier 3, closer to 4. He has a lot of pretty crippling flaws (low clear time, completely ult reliant on ganks, doesnt do much damage very quickly to help with ganks)
Lissandra isn't a tier 4 mid. A tier two minimum, closer to a tier one. She's like morgana, only better.
Pantheon Mid should be higher than Talon Mid, either by bringing pantheon up or talon down. Pantheon has one of the best level 2 all ins in the game, excellent roam, and very good ranged harass.
I'm not going to continue further, just think you ought to look at champions and compare before just eyeballing them into place. This tier list is honestly bad.
A lot of my placements are biased towards their respective win rates in solo queue and I try not to let my observational bias play a huge part in underplayed champions.
ReplyDeleteFor example Warwick, if everyone loves Nocturne and thinks Warwick, but Warwick wins 10% more than Nocturne, then I would be foolish to go with the crowd and say Nocturne is better than Warwick no? (This is true by the way) Also, magic resist is now an under-powered statistic, and thus if enemy champions are building Sash to counter Warwick, then their gold to value ratio drops, and he can just ult a different champion anyway.
Pantheon may have the best level 2 all-ins in the game, but if you know that, and I know that, why would you fight him at level 2? He has to build more towards glass to be continuously useful in the game, has low survivability against magic damage, and outside of an obvious ultimate and a minuscule AOE, he doesn't provide much in the way of large scale burst damage the way Talon does.
Lissandra may very well be underplaced based on the fact that nobody can play her well yet, but how can you justify a champion's placement in Tier 1 with a lower win rate than Karma?
I think that a lot of people have difficulty grappling with the fact that heroes they've long believed to be overpowered or underpowered are no longer the same champions they've learned to fear or laugh at, with two major ones being Warwick and Kha'zix.
The meta, item changes, and complementary/countering heroes are nerfed and buffed almost every week. When the numbers change then a hero's power changes drastically. What if Amumu's ultimate was changed to do a Dot instead of instant damage? Same damage, same utility, different timing, dramatically different power level.
Solo queue win rate is the worst statistic to base a tier on. Nocturne nerfs hurt, but that doesn't make warwick tier 2. A jungler that can't pressure a lane without his ultimate and lacks the clear speed to counter jungler is not a good jungler.
ReplyDeleteIf you choose not to fight Pantheon, you are zoned, and sacrifice cs and experience. His ultimate can be used for damage, but its better to think of it as high cd movement ability. If you cast W on an opponent within the radius of your ult, you follow and stun them, making this a very strong ganking tool. His AoE damage is a bit lower than most, but his single target damage is phenomenal.
And once again, solo queue win rate is the worst stat to base a tier list on. A tier list assumes that all factors are equal, something rarely (if ever) present in solo queue.
I agree with no more than about 5 of the placements here. I'm more inclined to believe what people play in lcs than your random diamond 3 guy.
ReplyDeleteKha'Zix mid substantially nerfed? Oh please, that's such a massive lie. Removed his W Unseen threat. Ok, and what did he get in return? More ad ratio on his Iso Q and W, more damage on his evolved Q, lower mana costs, more damage reduction on his R, and wayyyyyyy more damage overall. Only people who have no idea how to play think he's been nerfed, since the BUFF my winrate with him went up massively.
Placing him in tier 3 is just plain wrong, he should be in tier 1 for sure. He's easily as good as Zed.
ReplyDeleteHi Matthew, I may add some of those, but some will likely remain off the list since nobody really plays them in those roles.
ReplyDeleteHi Mechadream, Swain top is actually very good, the main issue is that he's only viable top if you're on blue side. If you're on purple side you'll never get blue, which diminishes his power greatly.
ReplyDeleteHi Jake, that might be out of my capacity to do a list based on each division! Nasus is very strong.
ReplyDelete^Exactly! I feel his excitement that Wukong is hidden OP, but LCS can't always prove that. I mean, he put Lissandra in Tier 4 yet she is a hotly contested pick for some LCS teams.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Wukong mid? I've seen it, I've done it. It works better than Wukong top in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteWu won't become a #1 ban in LCS because of his shitty 2v1 and LCS is seeing more and more lane swaps
ReplyDeleteWhere is skarner on the list?
ReplyDeleteyou can carry with every role in lol, u clearly dont know anything about this game
ReplyDeleteThank you. I didn't mention all of the roles with the champs that you left out though. I only mentioned the ones that I own at the moment. I get most of my ideas from the top rated builds on lolking.net and probuild.net. People in higher elo play a lot of these nontraditional roles. I spectate games of people in the challenger tier all the time and I also watch streams.
ReplyDeleteTryndamere is a melee ADC. According to this tier list, he is the 3rd best top laner in the game right now. You clearly don't play top lane if you think that Tryndamere can't carry. He literally can 1v5 people.
ReplyDeleteYou are terribly wrong. You should probably do some research. Go to the profile of Tryndamere. It specifically says "Carry" as a role for him according to what Riot has said. Tryndamere is a melee ADC. An ADC can be melee or ranged. Kayle and Master Yi is another example.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't a tier list for team comps. This isn't a tier list that is based on tournaments. This is a tier list based on Solo Queue/Duo Queue. People in the LCS will pick champs based on skill, team comp, and counters. They do not specifically go for all OP champs all the time.
ReplyDeleteHey, i just wanted to ask what's the reason to put Irelia in T1. Is it simply cus of her nearly 100% tenacity or is there any special thing?
ReplyDeleteWHERE IS SWAIN!?!!?
ReplyDeletea lot of champions work better in lcs than in SOLO QUE cause the team comp works well with those champs you have to remember in SOLO QUE you basically have to rely on yourself to carry the game which is what the list is based off its not impossible to carry as liss but much harder than those who are higher on the list supposedly
ReplyDeleteHum... Why Ori isn't on Tier 1 Mid lane? And I rly think about Cho on Jungle/Top Tier 1 or maybe God Tier...
ReplyDeleteNo love for my dude Graves? Hes to sick bottom lane.
ReplyDeletenominating udyr and warwick for tier 1 jungle. their cc and speed buffs make for crazy ganks, and they scale well into the late game with their tankiness and ability to target the adc.
ReplyDeletejust wondering - miss fortune hasnt been touched, yet her power dropped significantly. Why is that?
ReplyDeleteYou must not realize what "carry" means.
ReplyDeleteAccording to your logic, Riot must not know what carry means either. Glorious message there messiah. Please tell me about how you know more about Riot. I would love to hear the truth from someone who obviously knows what they are talking about. LAL XD
ReplyDeleteCould you explain why shen is tier two? I'm not disagreeing but everyone else seems to rank him higher because of his tankiness and ult
ReplyDeleteThe author moved her down from the upper tiers because, when on blue team, she could previously take golems and have a massive advantage in lane with an early level two. That isn't available any more, and she isn't as fearsome.
ReplyDeleteShe's still very good, and fills the niche of an AD champ with a strong AOE ability. Very good on a variety of teams. I'd move her up to the bottom of Tier 1, myself.
Both champs have a relatively difficult time actually getting to the ADC when compared to other junglers, I think. Warwick's ganks pre-6 are terrible as well.
ReplyDeleteI'd list them both as Tier 2, with Udyr towards the top, and Warwick towards the bottom..
Middle of Tier 3 as a jungler.
ReplyDeleteHe's not all that good any more, unfortunately. He suffers from the same issue that Warwick does, in that his pre-6 ganking potential is pretty low. However, his pre-6 is better than Warwick's (in my opinion) while his post-6 is a bit weaker (Warwick's more capable of closing a gap in many cases). This relative weakness later into the game puts him behind Warwick.
Khazix vs Lux? i beat the shit out of the Khazix (in lane) every time, easily
ReplyDeleteI almost agree, but he has one of the lowest win rates in the game.
ReplyDeleteGreat listing with great explanations, I can't really fault you on anything. I'd just wish to see some ADs moved into the God tier in the near future.
ReplyDeleteYeah... The same as Cho on tier 2 Top Lane
ReplyDelete;(
Shen has been tier two as a result of Champions like jayce who win in lane and champs like singed who can outpush and outsustain. However he's definitely still a decent pick and does his job well
ReplyDeleteAs soon as I saw malzahar T1 I knew this is shit right here. Malhz is bad, why? Because an ITEM counters him (meaning pretty much every champ counters him, since everyone can buy items xD)
ReplyDeleteqss counters his ult therefore countering his void puddle as well (why would anyone stand in it?). And if you dodge his wall, he ONLY has malefic visions left! Second thing: he has an ult that pretty much stuns himself, how is that strong? I eat you if you are malzahar any day of the week, and I can show you... this tier list just wow...
Redivider, malzahar's main purpose is to peel for your carry and poke. This means that you should generally be using your ultimate on the diving tank, and with his % based damage and instant cc he can basically take down Champions like nautilus and khazix in seconds after they use their gap closer.
ReplyDeleteHe's also been buffed to the point where his ratios and base damage are higher than they should be, which is why he also outrades every hero in the game and can instakill at level 6 with point and click spells.
Mike che has a point, for example shyvana is just BAD plain BAD, you want me to give a reason? well shes bad just because she has no cc. Im sorry but junglers with no CC are kinda bad right now. Warwick is just bad aswell, get kited all day... And fiddle support is just aggresive support, he doesnt need def, thats not the point, the point is spam E and poke em out, fiddle is actually a really good support, try it.
ReplyDeleteAnd kha zix - well, he said it all, I could go on and on but meh
You have a bit of point now, but malzahar is kinda like teemo when your starting out. After you learn how to counter, he just becomes bad. You made some good points but I am sorry I would never jump into a teamfight as kha zix FIRST, especially if the enemy team has malzahar and I have no qss.
ReplyDeleteAlso about lvl6: I have never had a malzahar kill me lvl6, because I just had qss then. Rush qss=gg. That champ is syndra pretty much, highest burst at lvl 6.
It is also not point and click because you have to hit silence and void puddle... I am sorry but I completely disagree with malzahar being so high on the list. Also the fact that his visions transfer around makes him push. Which is bad in higher elo play, because it creates an easy gank. Arent all those reasons enough to vouch for his downgrade?
Syndra is clearly OP because she has by far the most dmg at lvl 6 and also if you have seen some Bjergsen plays you know what im talking about. Sadly (or luckily) people dont know how to play her, similar goes for karma mid. And the creator of this list doesnt notice that. So yeah...
ReplyDeleteThe main problem with qss at the moment is that after the mag pen rework mag resist isn't as strong as before, and stacking hp is more effective (which malzahar counters).
ReplyDeleteAlso, the meta is currently much more of a push and roam meta, which as you mentioned, malzahar excels in. While he has no hard cc early on, his e and a few right clicks are more than enough to take anyone bot lane half way.
Syndra is very strong 1v1 but during team fights she starts falling off since she can't always set up the way she wants before the team fight actually occurs.
ReplyDeleteAlso, once the enemy team fights with a bulwark then her damage isn't as nice as it is 1v1 mid lane. Although toy can day that about any ap caster, the fact that her strongest skill relies on killing on champion at the start hurts her.
After the bulwark nerf we may see ap single target assassins come back into play.
My point is not magic resist but think about it, if you buy qss you counter half of his skillset, he cant do anything to you anymore. Then he either swaps lane, or goes roaming, in which case you take the tower. If he doesnt you can kill him.
ReplyDeleteIt is indeed push and roam meta. But it is actually a safe-push meta. If you see their jungler at bot, you push top and maybe mid. Otherwise its just not worth risking kills cuz of ganks.
Also in my opinion jungle Malzahar is more viable then mid, simply because everyone buying qss is not a good idea.
I still do not agree, maybe someone comes around in the discussion and enlightens me.
You like jungle malzahar? Maybe we can be friends after all, I main jungle malzahar on my gold smurf. Need to get used to being counterjungled every game but in the rare game where you get to level 3 with double buff without being invaded or ganked he's crazy strong.
ReplyDeleteWell, I feel he is like fiddle, I mean if you saw snoopeh jungle malhz even on LCS you know he is powerfull. But I just dont "feel" him mid.
ReplyDeleteRather than AD Nidalee I'd say it's more of a tanky split-pushing Nidalee. Her general strategy is more of a split-push than a straight up carry role.
ReplyDeleteHmm...I'd say you're probably right, Rengar's been doing better lately now that more squishy AP mages are back. I'll place him in Tier 3 next update :) His win rate is still abysmal, but he does have potential.
ReplyDeleteThat's very reasonable Vince...but he may be seen mid with an AP running the 1v2 lane sometime.
ReplyDeleteExactly!
ReplyDeleteThis is a weird question but, why is Veigar tier 4? i picked him up and played 2 matches with him and i did great. his single target burst damage is amazing, i could 1v1 and kill an adc using my e,w,q is it that he doesnt really have a escape or good aoe that keeps him tier 4? because i think that he is great against squishies, especially mages with his R. I also realize that people dont really play him that much, is there a reason?
ReplyDeleteWell Don't you think Cassiopeia is an AP-Dps Champion? she deals a high amount of damages on the time and can ripost easily versus some ad carry. She have skills with low CD this do Cassiopeia Overpowered, she possessed a slow, a bonus movement speed and his ulti is like a stun. You will never get bored of playing with Cassiopeia champion. I think she is really good stun who can touch all near enemies!
ReplyDeleteHe's not very good in lane, and only becomes relevant late game if he's fed. Not a good combination.
ReplyDeleteHis bursting potential is great, though, and his stun is fantastic. I could see him being moved up to the bottom of Tier 3 eventually.
Ru kiddin buddy? For sure u don't play top lane,first Wukong is not OP he is popular because of his jukes and trade potentials. However,he doesn't deserve to be in God Tier. Singed was nerfed so bad that he's technically useless (Tier 4) Second,u are calculating Rumble's power with people who just 'play' rumble. Pros like LCS people and pro top laners like me can destroy with Rumble. His Q with Danger Zone passive can wipe out waves easy and kill champions all easy when u slow them down with ur e and keep chasing them down while casting w. Also,a well placed R during teamfights can do a lot,a good angle can affect everyone and inflict at least 500 dmg every sec(with proper build). So please reconsider
ReplyDeleteYay, we won that teamfight! And tryn just backdoored our outer turret . . . and our inner turret . . . there goes the inhib turret . . .
ReplyDeleteLook at who is above him, Twisted Fate, Zyra, Brand, Kayle they all farm better than him early game. They all outrange him. He's just too easy to harrass with these champions early game. Their late game can be just as strong as his and they don't need their ultimate to superfarm waves.
ReplyDeletehow often do you update these list per patch?
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't know what's wrong with you.
ReplyDelete1. Wukong has incredible potential!
2. O.o I don't remember SINGED being bad. He has huge win rates, and he was nerfed a while ago. Someone doesn't play top lane...
3. You're bad, and you should feel bad
this list is a joke, just because you are diamond doesn't mean you know everything, this list was a fail attempt, the only thing that is somewhat correct is "god tier" and 4th tier, and those aren't even that accurate. You are diamond cuz of tolerance, skill, and teamwork. Don't think just because of that you are the all knowing master player. I would recommend no one should follow this list.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I'm not Diamond. Secondly, I never said I was a master player or that I know everything. Third off, obvious troll is troll.
ReplyDeleteOk...lets talk ma comrade. For your first suggestion,Wukong is not much of a threat these days because of Stuns and silences from the top laners. Also,Wukong bases off health,AD,and at speed. However,if he doesn't have his ult ready either in a duel or a team fight(2nd one is obviously more effective) he runs out of moves very quickly. Also,his ult can be disabled by slows and stuns. Only thing that keep him durable is his health,which top laners like Elise can easily counter. Ur about to tell me about his W right? Well heres a news for you. If you get some vision wards in top lane,that becomes useless as fuck. Also,Wukong's spells have a fairly long cool down and can be easily killed with enough stuns,burst damage,and kiting.
ReplyDeleteSecond,I played Singed a lot,back then,his poison trail was deadly,his e and q combined brought down at least half the enemy's health. But,today,that poison was nerfed so badly that is not even comparable to his past damages. Also,Singed is easy to play,u just kite ur enemies with ur q and use ur e to shove em into ur poison. And use W to keep them inside.
I play Top lane and Jungling as my main. And..I only lost few matches(1 or 2 out of 10-15) out of Rumble and Darius,which I believe I can wreck both of ur precious top laners.
And u call me bad? U CALL ALL PLATINUM PLAYER BADD??? I WILL WRECK UR DAMN ASS WITH MY CHAMPS AND RUNE CHARTS.
1. Every champion is countered by slows and stuns, this is invalid
ReplyDelete2. Pics or GTFO, there's no way a brain of yours could be a platinum player. 3. Please go back to grammar school and learn to type. It's painful for everyone to see your text.
Please escort yourself off the website and take your dislikes with you.
ReplyDeleteThis guy... Kha'Zix apparently is better than Rengar top.. PFFT... I double Q a Kha top and they run away if not, are dead. Anyways khazix top is horrible. Rengar should be higher up there.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe you understand Rengar's potential in team fights. >takes out adc, and is able to kill another squishy if skilled enough. His triple Q is rediculous, and did I mention the insane split push, next to tryndamere? I don't understand why he's tier 4 with gangbangplank, shitvanna and holaf...
This may be true...I'll have to choose my words more carefully :P
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I checked Singed's history of patch notes. His poison was nerfed once, and it was only his linger time.
ReplyDeleteAlso, they're not may faves. I'm just arguing over the fact that you think they suck.
And for the record, I won't even begin to explain how easy it is to outfarm a Rumble.
I think you should consider Diana as a viable top, I think she's pretty strong at this role.
ReplyDeleteHey, I think Ap Yi(Yes he's gone next patch but what if he isnt :D) should be in Tier 2 , cuz, early game, he has the potential to destroy almost every mid without sustain, Like Kat, Akali and so on if played right, Yes I know his late game might not be as godlike as TF or Kat or Diana or Fizz, But, If he is SO GODDAMN fed early, which he can achieve easily, he can end the game before the godlike champs get their core items, or fat.
ReplyDeleteSo i think that nidalee and lissandra could be a little higher then they are... Nida can win games alone and lissandra it's a beast in teamfights.
ReplyDeleteJayce was flat out nerfed, not "tweaked". There's a reason why his win rate in solo q plummeted (he currently sports one of the lowest win rates in solo q) and went from a must pick/ban to an only occasional pick/ban in competitive play. Definitely at the tail end of tier 2 now imo.
ReplyDeletenami or thresh?
ReplyDeletenasus is a very good top and people underestimate that. I have been playing nasus top for about 4 months now in ranked and have gotten from Bronze III to Platinum V. Very viable, noone counters him too hard (except maybe xin zhao in my opinion) and very op in my opinion ;)
ReplyDeleteI know you have heard your fair share of "Rumble should be higher" posts and they are probably getting annoying now but I need to get this off my chest:
ReplyDeleteI have a lot of trouble understanding how champions like Jax can be ahead of Rumble and how can Teemo even be in the same ballpark, nevermind a few spots back!? These champions have barely any teamfight potential! I mean this in the nicest way possible but its laughable how they can be in the same territory as arguably the strongest toplaner in the game.
Ok, I get Teemo is a niche pick and under the right circumstances he can do very well. Stop me if I'm wrong but isn't that criteria of a tier 3 or 4 champ??
Jax's laning phase is a little above average at best but that aside he is so overshadowed when it comes to teamfights by better assassins. He's never played competitively anymore for that reason alone.
Also I understand that by your definition champions in god tier and tier 1 can massively fall behind but still be a huge presence. This fits Rumble's description perfectly! His mid game ultimate's power spike is unmatched, especially when used around objectives like the dragon and baron pit.
OMG SOMEONE RECALL NAO!!!
ReplyDeleteToo late we lose.
he did not get more ad ratio on his Q if you do the math hes Q is almost roughly the same and deal slightly less dmg , his W evolve nerf was massive
ReplyDeleteSSJ what is your elo?, i agree with almost everything, but fizz should be higher, he is really hard to lane against if played well, and malzahar tier 1?, i use him alot, i like him, but i have never seen him in LCS?, can you explain plz?
ReplyDeleteMalzahar Forever Secretly OP
ReplyDeleteOne more thing... where is karthus?
ReplyDeleteNocturne tier 2? He should be tier 1 at least
ReplyDeleteMaybe karthus is so op that he can't even belong to this list xD
ReplyDeleteIts that time of the tier list lifespan where SSJ staahps answering our questions... -_-
ReplyDeleteUntrue
ReplyDeleteI've seen it as well and think it works pretty well, especially against people who aren't prepared for it.
ReplyDeleteHi Brandon, that mostly depends on how much time I have and how much I think it should change.
ReplyDeleteHe's in there Luis, use CTRL + F :)
ReplyDeleteHi Gabriel, I'm currently in platinum. Fizz is amazing 1v1, but if you don't let him snowball he's sub-par in 5v5s.
ReplyDeleteHi Forsaken, she's just a very steady pick. She's a little boring nowadays with all the new champions around, but she's still strong in her own right in terms of trades and early/mid/late game strength.
ReplyDeleteLOL no reply
ReplyDeleteHey what about Darius?
ReplyDeleteWhat's your opinion on Quinn mid? After seeing Alex Ich play her, I tried it. It seems pretty good, great map control.
ReplyDeleteI thought this page was about Top tier champs in SOLO QUE. So I'd assume basing some information from SOLO QUE would be good or TOP TIER CHAMPS for SOLO QUE. Just a thought..
ReplyDeleteKha'Zix belongs in tier 3. Too bad you're too busy licking his alien balls to see that.
ReplyDeleteLux > Kha'Zix all day. Vaporized.
CTRL+F > FTW !
ReplyDeleteTier 1 not good enough?
ReplyDeleteSo many negative comments in this Tier update...What have you done SSJ ??? :D
ReplyDeleteJanna is best carry
ReplyDeleteThanks for the explanation on Malzahar bro :)
ReplyDeleteI kinda get it now and since his furtive buffs he will be soon the FOTM & Must Pick/Ban i guess so...the only thing funny i know about this guy is that whenever i had to face him with TF is that i can break his ultimate with gold card! :D you must say its just luck but it happen really several times :)
On the topic of TF i must agree that he is getting weak with the FOTM like Zed which i faced one yesterday and even if i changed my all setup (keyboard,mouse,headset) i must say that all of it couldn't be an excuse and even a great opponent it cannot be! the champion on it self he is really good :)
The most problematic champions against TF imo are Fizz,Zed,Talon,Diana,Cho'Gath (Cho'gath is just a pain in the ass to drop because of his passive while 1-2-3 rupture well landed can lead you to snowball this fkin alien :))
Good tier list overall bro!
Im back of holidays and ready to kick to Platinium! :D
I think that Gangplank top should be at least tier 2 if not 1, he can harass top lane champions early on well so that they get no farm and he gets all the farm, he is also capable of getting away from ganks or chasing down enemy champions due to his high speed. Maybe I just like him cause I play him so much. :P
ReplyDeleteWhy is zyra in tier 1?
ReplyDeletewhy is zyra in tier 1?
ReplyDeleteHer buggy escape and misguided ult.
ReplyDeleteoh he was in the other line GG, im buying some glasses xD
ReplyDelete...rengar tier 4?
ReplyDeleteStrong offensive/CC kit she is beast 1v1 and Taric got the word for her impact in team fight ;)
ReplyDeleteSSJ mentioned previous tierlist Darius isnt the powerhouse he used to be (after he got nerfed)
ReplyDeleteIf you got a youtube link i would be interested bro :)
ReplyDeleteHm i understand you point but since his tweak he is not what he used to be...
ReplyDeleteJust like SSJ said earlier to someone else:
"Rumble is God material to the one who got the hands for it"
....but on the bench of players he tend to do worse. :/
Why is galio tier 3?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Ikx8-Nw3o
ReplyDeletesome more info about wu top like lifesteal in runes etc
ReplyDeleteCurious to see where Sej lands next list, people underestimate the power of the W with all health items and the Ulty combined with the knock up Q and the slowing E makes your Carry's extremely happy! Although she's in god tier I find few people outside myself playing her my question is why?? is it because she doesn't have the kill power of a Lee Sin or a Mumu? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteWhen can we expect the 3.10 tier list?
ReplyDeleteConsider putting Malphite under support as well. His Q slows and pokes, he also can tank as a support and his ult can secure kills for the adc as well as shut down 3v2 ganks. I understand not many people do it but I think its amazing especially if heal is taken. Just a thought.
ReplyDeletePantheon OP top.
ReplyDeleteYou should know what a statistic means if you want to base a list on them. Champions that are strong tend to hover closer to a 50% win rate because people who can't play that champion very well pick it and do poorly.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he is mad that he got proved wrong.
ReplyDeletejust saying yea wukong is good but come on god top lane not really just counter him with riven lee or darius and its gg
ReplyDeleteLike I said, The champs are based off of SoloQ and some of Suntastic's input on why its considered the tier that its in. That shows what champions are successful in SoloQ regardless if people do poorly with the champion. If the champion has over 50-60% win ratio I think I might pick him to climb. The champion has that ratio for a reason, because even people who do bad actually have a chance to win. So in the hands of a experienced player they can achieve much more. Also I don't think that statistic is true, I've played way too many games where people don't know what they are doing and I have to coach how to have common sense (To not extend, face check a bush etc.) during a ranked game. I seriously don't get paid enough.
ReplyDeletecan you make a rammus explaination? i mean, he's good, but god tier?
ReplyDeleteI played several games with him and i agree with your comment his performance are awesome in most situation but...God also mean to me you can carry your team by yourself and i tend to see more my Jarvan doing it than my Rammus...
ReplyDeleteIf you learn to use your wukong at another level than the one you see right now then you will get the god tier ;)
ReplyDeleteIts just like me how many players thought they would counter my TF with Fizz...
"You came to the wrong lane nigga :D"
Give him sometime :)
ReplyDeleteIts kinda the reason yes
ReplyDeleteHis utility is not good at all his damage mediocre and worst of all ...his ultimate can get canceled...
ReplyDeleteHe will reconsider it :)
ReplyDeleteThx bro :)
ReplyDeleteLowest winrate jungler in LCS :)
ReplyDeleteKnowing that we are talking about SOLOQUE and not LCS ;) , every good jungler knows that nocturne is a fkng beast carrying throw elo. Meteos aproves this.
ReplyDeleteIf you're versing a heavy AD team you pick Rammus if you're not don't pick him. If you do smart pick Rammus however he will almost always carry He can get objectives better then 85% of junglers with his ult he can COMPLETELY lock down a carry whether it's range or not, he melts squishes in addition to doing crazy aoe damage. Rammus is def G Tier.
ReplyDeleteHahaha ^^
ReplyDeleteMalphites pokes are mediocre at best and his start is terrible due to his mana hunger, he is t4-5 at best as a support :/
ReplyDeleteJax should be like tier 1, he's a hyper carry any hyper carry can be shut down and comeback with a STRONG vengeance, I even think by the tier description Fiora should be t2 at least since she can fall off and still take out all the squishes like nothing
ReplyDeleteNasus has a very weak laning phase a good garen darius etc can shut him down so hard, so no he does have HARD counters nasus jungle is the way to go.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, it takes about 35 minutes to complete muramana from what I've been seeing that is like the hardest nerf ever :/
ReplyDeleteIf you keep to just poking and level up Q twice in the first 3 levels his poke isnt terrible. The key is to not use E much at all in the early game in order to help with the mana hunger. The Damage is mediocre on his poke but the slow is key for securing kills for the adc. I do see your points though
ReplyDeleteBut then why not just use sona?
ReplyDeleteUpdate to 3.10 already.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't saying hurry up. I just was wondering when we would be likely to see it. I wanna see what he thinks of Jungle Elise after her tweaks before i buy Elise.
ReplyDeleteSoon
ReplyDeletegood
ReplyDelete