LoL 2014 Champion Tier List - Solo Queue - Patch 4.14 Update | NERFPLZ.LOL

Aug 16, 2014

2014 Champion Tier List - Solo Queue - Patch 4.14 Update



This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link

Preface Chatter
Hey everyone, and welcome to the Patch 4.14 update, where although the champions themselves have remained relatively unchanged this patch, some FOTM changes have brought fresh faces into the mix.

Since this patch was pretty short and boring, I'll release this before the full analysis (if I have time to do one at all). Anyway, without further adieu, let's get right into the list!

Patch 4.14 Summary
Nerfs: Gragas, Kassadin, Kog'maw, Maokai, Morgana, Orianna, Rengar, Syndra, Xerath
Buffs: Zed
  • Added Gnar top
  • Nami moved down, Sona moved up
  • 8/17: Akali moved up, Elise top/mid moved down
  • 8/21: Cho'gath jungle moved up, Sona moved up, ADCs shuffled a bit; Gangplank moved up; Orianna moved up, Cassiopeia moved down, Akali moved up
  • 8/23: Fiora moved up
  • 8/26: Patch 4.15 Analysis released
  • 8/28: Added Nidalee explanation, 4.15 on the way
      Use CTRL + F to Search For Champions
      The Tier List

      God Tier [Exceptionally Strong Choices]:
      Mid-Lane Gods: Swain, Talon, Vel'Koz
      Jungle Gods: Rammus, Amumu, Maokai, Warwick, Wukong, Fiddlesticks, Jarvan IV, Vi
      AD Gods: Tristana, Jinx, Lucian, Kog'Maw
      Top Lane Gods: Warwick, Swain, Fiora, Wukong, Maokai
      Support Gods: Morgana, Leona

      Tier 1 [Strong/Preferred Choices]:
      Mid-Lane: Katarina, Ahri, Fizz, Malzahar, Ziggs, Galio, Brand, Zyra, Lux, Xerath, Anivia, Morgana, Orianna, Syndra, Akali, Heimerdinger, Wukong
      Jungle: Xin Zhao, Volibear, Udyr, Pantheon, Aatrox,
      AD Carry: Draven, Miss Fortune, Caitlyn, Corki
      Top Lane: Rumble, Nidalee, Alistar, Heimerdinger, Lulu, Renekton, Irelia, Jax, Nasus, Yorick, Trundle, Ryze, Malphite, Jarvan IV, Tryndamere, Darius, Singed, Yasuo, Lissandra, Akali, Pantheon, Teemo, Kennen
      Support: Sona, Janna, Nami, Blitzcrank, Braum, Zyra

      Tier 2 [Viable/Balanced Choices]:
      Mid-Lane: Twisted Fate, Cassiopeia, Diana, Lissandra, Pantheon, Lulu (AP), Yasuo, Viktor, Kayle, Karma, Zed, Fiora, Annie, Kennen, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Zilean, Teemo, Sion, Ryze, Jayce
      Jungle: Sejuani, Nautilus, Skarner, Rengar, Evelynn, Kayle, Jax, Nocturne, Shaco, Kha'Zix, Lee Sin, Cho'Gath, Master Yi, Elise, Tryndamere, Olaf, Zac, Dr. Mundo, Nasus, Shyvana, Leona, Trundle, Malphite, Diana, Zed
      AD Carry: Vayne, Sivir, Ashe, Varus, Ezreal, Graves
      Top Lane: Riven, Volibear, Rengar, Dr. Mundo, Aatrox, Gnar, Udyr, Karma, Lee Sin, Shyvana, Kayle, Cho'gath, Vladimir, Olaf, Gangplank, Xin Zhao, Viktor, Poppy, Quinn, Vi, Jayce, Zed
      Support: Thresh, Alistar, Lulu, Vel'Koz, Xerath, Annie, Gragas, Karma, Fiddlesticks

      Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
      Mid-Lane: Kassadin, Gragas, Karthus, Veigar, Leblanc, Nidalee (AP), Kha'Zix, Riven, Tristana, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks, Elise, Ezreal (AP)
      Jungle: Hecarim, Nunu, Shen, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Riven, Poppy, Darius
      AD Carry: Quinn, Twitch, Twisted Fate, Kennen
      Top Lane: Elise, Shen, Garen, Gragas, Kha'Zix, Master Yi, Zac, Mordekaiser, Sion, Vayne, Talon, Soraka, Nunu, Galio
      Support: Taric, Volibear, Zilean, Nautilus, Lux, Maokai, Nunu, Kayle, Soraka, Teemo, Malphite, Anivia, Syndra, Veigar, Gangplank

      Tier 4 [Low Benefit to Effort Ratios]:
      Mid-Lane: Kog'maw, Urgot, Soraka, Janna
      Jungle: Gangplank, Garen, Blitzcrank
      AD Carry: Urgot
      Top Lane: Urgot
      Support: Nidalee, Orianna, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Shen, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc

      Instructions and Caveats:
      • Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
      • Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
      • Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
      • This tier list takes data from ALL players; however, since the majority of players fall in the first three tiers, the majority of data points will come from there.
      • Win Rates are important in analyzing each champion's strength, but are not the end-all criteria for any champion's position.
      • The creator of this list is diamond, so there may be some personal bias towards higher tier play on certain champions.

      Champion Explanations
      • Ahri [Tier 1 Mid] - After repeated nerfs to many other champions, Ahri's finally stepped back into the game.
      • Alistar [Tier 1 Top] - Alistar top takes on a similar role to Maokai top in the current meta, and works very well sustaining until late to soak damage.
      • Gnar [Tier 2 Top] - Mixed results on Gnar as of now, but I don't think he's extraordinarily overpowered right now or underpowered based on his current stats. This may change.
      • Gragas [Tier 3 Top] - Nerfs and changes hurt his reliability, and I don't think he's worth playing top anymore.
      • Kassadin [Tier 3 Mid] - Huge nerfs hit him this patch, and I think he's out of the spotlight.
      • Lee Sin [Tier 2 Jungle] - Although his win rate has dropped to all time lows, I think that he's still largely very similar to the way he was pre-patch. Those that happen to be extraordinarily good at making plays with him will continue doing well, but for those that aren't already at diamond level Lee Sin play, there are better choices.
      • Maokai [God Tier Jungle/Top] - Despite nerfs, I think he still remains a strong pick, and judging from his statistics was only affected a little.
      • Nidalee [Tier 1 Top] - Despite only having a 50%+ win rate at platinum and diamond, I'll tentatively place her in Tier 1. She's definitely very strong, but for the majority of players out there I suspect practice will be needed to make any use of her.
      • Thresh [Tier 2 Support] - Similar to Lee Sin, although his win rate has dropped to all time lows, with strong mastery he could still be viable. However, I think there are still much better choices.
      • Vel'koz [God Tier Mid] - Calling this now, Vel'koz is going to be the new Ziggs level AP. His poke, damage, and wave clear makes him ideal for an almost identical role.
      For a full analysis on champion changes this patch, check out this link!

      • The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
      Agree? Disagree? Comment below!

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      1. Vel'koz's time has came!

      2. gragas is on the top lane list twice, once in tier one once in tier 3

      3. Ben AwesomeAugust 16, 2014

        i have alot to say, so im gonna put it all in one comment
        1: this is coming from a top lane main, so tell me if im wrong, but karthus, veigar and khazix deserve better. i would personally put veigar in high tier 2, with the others in low tier 2.
        2: jax is currently sporting a 46-47% win rate. while he is still the best duelist in the game, i dont think he deserves tier 1.
        3: Nunu and Hec dont deserve tier 3
        4: renekton is too high up in tier 1, bump him down a bit

        these are all suggestions(except the last one) on what those champs deserve. but your knowledge is probably stronger than mine, so if you think that im incorrect, leave it that way :D

      4. 1. I agree except with kha' zix
        2. He deserve tier 1 but he should be lower
        2 I agree
        4 I agree
        5. I AGREE

      5. Those mid changes need further explanation : fizz drop from being god to tier 1 after kat...just why ? Nothing moved on his W% and he wasnt nerfed. We can say the same concerning Talon, no substancial change of W% nor buff... God tier really ? And dat Ahri getting suddenly better than fizz because she is pro played... And what to say about this god hope he is going to become the past ziggs.. That he isnt and ones again nothing moved on his stats to suppose that. I would strongly appreciate that you explain those various changes especially concerning Talon and Fizz. Thank you :)

      6. Poppy Jung, Orianna and zed deserve higher

      7. I think you should take a closer look at Graves' state at the moment. His potential is outsanding with seriously broken snowballing and immense burst. Plus, he works pretty simple, ask for support that can engage, let him engage, get in, take kill, snowball. Those minor buffs was just what he needed. He just became Ahri of adcs, just slightly being buffed, raising up big.

      8. SSJSuntasticAugust 16, 2014

        More of a meta shift from damage dealing top laners to champions like Alistar and Maokai taking up the field mean that especially with Maokai, Fizz actually started having trouble assassinating as quickly and efficiently as before.

        Talon on the other hand, actually received a significant win rate boost recently, probably from support nerfs across the board.

        Vel'koz has also seen a significant slow climb in win rate especially since they nerfed Kassadin and several other mid laners this patch.

      9. SSJSuntasticAugust 16, 2014

        Do you mean all these champions for top lane?

      10. Dagannoth RexAugust 16, 2014

        Does anyone think Bloodthirster is still a viable item after the last buff and why did orianna drop to Tier 2?

      11. Viable? I guess so. Bt became really situational but i think that on some adcs bt can outshine botrk atm(Cait for example) , You should be getting it only as 5-6th item tho..

      12. Dr. Mid LaneAugust 16, 2014

        What does "Low Effort to Benefit Ratios" mean?

      13. Moreover, I think you are wrong concerning Kog and Maokai staying god tier (for Maokai, I'm talking about top lane... But he will probably drop at the end of the jungle god tier, after Vi). There nerfs on this patch were subtancials!

      14. Dr. Mid LaneAugust 16, 2014

        Also I love playing Garen jungle.. I do not understand his tier list standings very much so ...

      15. Josh ThurlowAugust 16, 2014

        Means you can get little reward out of doing so much work with said champion in the said position

      16. Josh ThurlowAugust 17, 2014

        Agreed. I only get it on Graves or Caitlyn. Graves needs the higher burst damage ADC items.

      17. Concerning Alistar-Maokai countering Fizz...1st Maokai has been hard nerfed this patch and I'm convinced he will drop from god tier (even if he stays strong and annoying) and Alistar will probably never be a god tier threat (I see him as a malphite little brother...just unkillable useless rock in lane and game changer with the knock in TF...the difference is that his KD is less efficiant and reliable than malph R). Nevertheless, Yes I did notice a slight boost for Talon but nothing concerning Velk since 4.14 (a drop actually : )

      18. Josh ThurlowAugust 17, 2014

        Graves for some reason seems to take some skill. I see very few Graves, and fewer good ones.

      19. Why is Jayce so low in tier 2 for top?

      20. SSJSuntasticAugust 17, 2014

        I was looking at his ranked stats, which seems to be exhibiting a steady climb. Even from a daily basis his rate did rise in gold and platinum. Maybe it's too soon to call it a go for god tier, but I really think he's sleeper op right now.

      21. I hope you are right my friend cause it would be a refreshing change in the meta ;)

      22. Josh ThurlowAugust 17, 2014

        1. Veigar should be Tier 3, or at least low Tier 2. He's very situational. If you're good with him, he's godlike. Karthus takes some skill, he's not just a die and push R champ. and Kha is situational, like Lee he needs someone who is good with him, or he needs to get kills fast and early.
        2. no idea on jax.
        3. Don't see many of them. Nunu may just deserve Tier 3, Unless you're good, he's not as strong for anything but making the other jungler's life difficult.
        4. Don't see much Renek, can't say

      23. Moreover, I think you should reconsider Akali... She really deserves tier 1, and I would put her somewhere between Galio and Anivia...

      24. He has come........... not inside me.

      25. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        I'm on mobile, which means I can barely comment with bad internet, but all I have to say is this...
        What's up with the Support placements??!

      26. Vel koz is no where near where Ziggs was in AP poke damage, Vel koz's scaling is crap (50-60% ratios across the board) and he is the least safe of an AP mage to play. His ultimate can easily be interrupted by many popular junglers/tops/supports today. Once your ult is gone, the damage in a teamfight that you can produce is very very minimal. Sure his support should have some love but his mid is still low tier 1 at the best.

      27. BonafideBarnabusAugust 17, 2014

        I like Vel'koz but your right he isnt god tier material

      28. Braum and Thresh nerfs were hard but their utility/peel is unmatched, they should be a bit higher as their tankiness is still through the roof.

      29. JuandermanAugust 17, 2014

        No more Gragas jungle? The nerf to his Q was only to minion so he is still a great jungler.

      30. Yea he is a fun champ to play, IMA FIRIN MY LAZAR!, FUCK U LUX MINES PURPLE!

      31. BonafideBarnabusAugust 17, 2014

        win rate maybe but that doesnt mean you cant do very well with him

      32. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        That's not completely what I had in mind, but I'll say more in the morning since it's 1:00 and I'll actually be at a computer instead of a phone that can't handle walls of text.

      33. No that was a pretty strong nerf, 30% damage reduction to minions/monsters on his main waveclear ability. He explained that patch 4.13.

      34. lol, gn ShadowSect

      35. Ryze, Nid, some very popular tops that counter him hard.

      36. BonafideBarnabusAugust 17, 2014

        yeah i think he needs a move up he is too good of an adc

      37. BonafideBarnabusAugust 17, 2014

        I thought talon was god tier material all this time.

      38. 1. Kha Zix got nerfed way too hard and cant recover because his prey is becoming VERY hard to kill. Karthus is having trouble with the long range mid meta. Veigar should be low tier 2, he is a very risky pick, instantly kill one target then good luck getting out.
        2. Jax still counters a lot of FOTM top laners, WW and Irelia. So he is fine where he is.
        3. I agree with Hec but not Nunu, he provides almost nothing to the table late game unless ur in Wood 5 where no one interrupts his ult.
        4. I still like renekton in many lane match ups, his only nerf was ult health, his laning phase is still the king of melee top laners.
        5. Quinn was tier 2 for a couple of patches but I agree there, Quinn is definitely underrated, that passive hurts a lot.

      39. Hey ShadowSect, as a fellow platnium and you are a support main I believe, what do you think of alistar right now? Also what is your current opinion on Zed after the buff, and your own opinion of gnar?

      40. I think Galio is deserving of God tier in mid. There isn't a single mid laner than can beat him in lane. He provides a huge armor/mr steroid to the ADC late game and his ultimate is debatably the strongest AoE disable in the game. He can single handedly shut down a comp with 2+ AP champions and can force an all AD comp and stack armor ( his W not only gives mr but equal armor). The only counter (very debatable one at that) is Talon, but he can push hard enough to keep him in lane and his W would provide enough armor to survive Talon's burst. Then Galio wins every team fight while Talon is sad :(.

      41. Well, They finally took the nerf stick to Kassadins balls this time and just swung it as hard as they could. Nothing like beating my favorite champion to into oblivion.

      42. Ben AwesomeAugust 17, 2014

        tell that to is 53% win rate :D

      43. Ben AwesomeAugust 17, 2014

        the way to beat galio is pick an ad mid. and if you try to stack armor, you buy last whisper and it doesnt matter anymore. tough luck :/

      44. Ben AwesomeAugust 17, 2014

        by kha tier 2 i was thinking mid, hes still pretty ok there, jungle and top arent viable at all anymore

      45. Ben AwesomeAugust 17, 2014

        only renek and jax ;D

      46. I think the next Ziggs is going to be lux IMO,

      47. ScarfedGaryBuseyAugust 17, 2014

        Anyone else think that vel'koz is fine in tier 1? Like all abilitys being skillshots and the only way of getting poke and burst is by super dodgeable abilitys bar q. not to mention the 0 mobility doesnt to anyone favors. especially with the new rise of assassins rolling around again. SSJ my friend you are the only one who thinks vel'koz will be good by worlds.

      48. JuandermanAugust 17, 2014

        Oh, I thought it was only affecting lane minions. That makes sense then, thanks. Poor Gragas, he has nowhere else to play :(

      49. ScarfedGaryBuseyAugust 17, 2014

        Dont like your own comment, its an easy way to lose all credibility to your argument.

      50. ScarfedGaryBuseyAugust 17, 2014

        SSJ, you gave alistar a champion with a disgraceful 47.3 win rate percentage 3 spots away from god tier that alone makes 0 sense, mana issues up the asshole unless you buy items asap to fix those issues which dont synergyse that well with him for lane phase. A boatload of awful matchups, especially with late game scalers due to his lack of kill potential without jungle help, 0 escapes made worse by his innate wave pushing duo to passive and q. Low teir 1 at best is where he should be right now. This is solo que not LCS and its showing that even after the massive buffs he got he still isnt a very reliable top laner for this patch.

      51. Nicolas CageAugust 17, 2014

        Sheen resolves his mana issues, to an extent. If you're going the AP route, Catalyst does a lot as well.

        You can mitigate his innate pushing as well if you play carefully.

        I think he's pretty decent. ROA -> Lich Bane -> AP or Triforce/Youmuu's + tank items are the way to go, IMO. I would say he's mid-low Tier 1.

      52. rainy1314emily .August 17, 2014

        I kinda had a feeling Ahri was going to go back up the tier list, with the current mid meta shifting to traditional AP carries like Swain and Katarina or long range ones such as Syndra/Ziggs/Lux and what not, rather than annoying AP/AD Assassins such as Zed/Fizz/Yasuo and what not. Although I guess it's because of the nerfs that Ahri's just being recycled back in to top tiers. Meaning to say that if other AP mages gets buffed, she's going to be moved down in tier 1 again. However, Orb of Deception and Rylai buffs certainly did give Mage Ahri more breathing space and the potential to be a bit more reliable post 3.13 nerfs, but not enough carrying potential as a mage still, unfortunately.

        I hope Riot does more to trim away the Assassin meta so we can go back to playing more traditional Mage champions for mid lane so the entire game pace isn't centered around snowballing and/or quick victory. Hoping Riot does more to bring back Mage Ahri in to place. Either way, I foresee Charm + DFG Ahri will be problem in competitive gaming again and then the balance team will be faced with a headache again.

      53. Nicolas CageAugust 17, 2014


        We've been in the mage meta for months. Riot's working to bring assassins back right now.

      54. Nicolas CageAugust 17, 2014

        For the time being, Ziggs is still plenty strong, IMO. No need for a replacement quite yet.

        But, Lux might be positioned to partially replace him eventually. Currently, though, champions with more lane dominance, like Syndra, are a bit more useful, IMO.

      55. I completely agree with the Vel Koz God tier.

      56. Nicolas CageAugust 17, 2014

        I'd say Vel'Koz is Tier 1.

        The total lack of mobility alongside the detail that most of his damage takes time to apply (through both the fact that he needs to hit with multiple abilities to activate his passive, and the fact that his ult is channeled) means that he needs some serious babysitting to be effective.

        That said, his damage potential is insane. I would say he's Tier 1 right now given how the meta suits him fairly well, but how he's not quite as strong as top-tier champions.

      57. Nicolas CageAugust 17, 2014

        Thank goodness.

        R.I.P. Riftwalk.

        I haven't played post-nerf Kassadin. Was he finally gutted this time? I suspect he'll bounce back like he has for the entirety of Season 4.

      58. rainy1314emily .August 17, 2014

        Technically speaking, we've been in the Assassin meta despite nerfs to true Assassin. Why else do you think an item like DFG was getting nerfed? Even Mage who pick that item up became Assassins. And truth be told, a few Assassins remained strong until 1,2 patches ago, such as Fizz and sleeper op Talon (and borderline Assassin Katarina). Regardless, I'm still against Assassins, sorry. 3.13 nerfs to Ahri left me very bitter and hateful towards Assassins, which is why I'd be more than happy to see a return of TF, Cassio, Ryze, Salon, Lux, Anivia, Morg, Zyra and etc in the competitive scene.

        Besides, I believe you were referring to Utility Mage meta, where it was previously dominated by Lulu, Soraka and Ori? And for a short period of time, Karma too.

      59. rainy1314emily .August 17, 2014

        I hope he doesn't make any return for now. We've seen for a long long time, that Kassadin is too hard for Rito to balance. Every changes ends up with him skewing for the better or worse, never in between.. but not seeing this guy flashing around for once is a good thing.

      60. Nicolas CageAugust 17, 2014

        DFG was nerfed because Riot wanted to make the item more situational. It was meant to compensate for the buffs that assassins had received in the same patch.

        Fizz got nerfed a while ago, it wasn't until a few months ago that I feel he had really started to make a comeback. Talon's been sleeper OP for a while now, though.

        Not sure why you would be against assassins. They're an important character archetype to have in the game.

        I would argue that there isn't really a difference between mages and utility mages. They're two sides of the same coin, really, and are generally useful in the same sorts of situations. When the meta favors one kind, the other is similarly powerful.

      61. BoltOfSpadesAugust 17, 2014

        You mean the ad mids that have been nerfed to oblivion? There's only Talon, and even then, Galio's ult counters his. Frozen Heart/Iceborn Gauntet aren't that bad choices for Galio either, both give mana, which are a welcome addition to his mana-starved kit. Granted, building mr is necessary against Galio, true, but there's always room for defensive items in any champion's kit. Even with Last Whisper, you got his W, which gives him 90 armor at max rank. Besides, melee champs are easier to ult.

      62. Nicolas CageAugust 17, 2014

        "There isn't a single mid laner than can beat him in lane"

        Talon, Zed, Wukong and quite a few other mid-laners are more than capable of stomping Galio very hard. Not sure how you feel that matchup can go in Galio's favor without a significant difference in skill levels between the players. A Galio really ought to do poorly against most AD mids. Some AP mid-lanes, like Malzahar, are more than capable of eating through Galio as well.

        Galio's lack of gap-closing abilities makes his ult very easy to avoid, even though it is pretty powerful. His lack of significant damage contribution and hard CC outside of his ult also really harms the champion.

        It's too bad, I really enjoy playing Galio. I just don't think he's OP outside of the laning phase without some serious luck in initiating. If the other team is warding properly at all, Galio will have a hard time catching people out, as he's a pretty easy champion to run away from.

        I think he's Tier 1, though. The meta favors a defensive playstyle where the team works to protect hypercarries, and Galio's ult works well for that purpose, as does his shield. Not to mention the meta is heavily dominated by AP mid-laners, which means that he generally gets good matchups.

        I think Flash/Ghost would be good on him, though I haven't tried it yet.

      63. Can you explain moving Nami down?

      64. BoltOfSpadesAugust 17, 2014

        I prefer Flash/Teleport, no running from a Galio ult when he's right behind you.

      65. BonafideBarnabusAugust 17, 2014

        it makes no sense all his abilities are skill shots and can be avoided, no mobility, Squishy and if he falls behind it is really hard to come back. i will say tho he is a very fun champ with good poke, damage, low mana costs and cooldowns and good teamfight potential.

      66. rainy1314emily .August 17, 2014

        I believe the Assassin buffs you were referring to was the Banshee's nerf, which was the buff that Riot had directly confirmed. Truth be told, I have nothing against Assassins. To be fair, the hatred came from the fact that Riot nerfed Ahri because some morons were playing her as Assassins. And rather than looking at item itself, they decided to nerf her values. It was only many patches later Riot realize DFG was a problematic item all along. And honestly, do you really believe in Riot's balance logic? Personally, if they wanted to make DFG a situational item, the first thing they should look at is reducing the AP it gives because 120 AP makes it one of the must get item along with Zhonya and Cap. I think 60 secs CD is very fair given anything could happen within that 1 minute it was in cooldown. Increasing it's CD doesn't make it anymore situational because the AP it provides is still quite lucrative.

        As for Fizz, I believe his latest nerf was very minor. W - 0.35 to 0.15 back up to 0.25 post Lich Bane nerf, and he received a QoL change in his E. AD Assassins however, are an eye sore for me. Think of Yasuo and Zed :3. Much higher mobility than Ahri yet Riot gave them a long period of dominance before deciding to nerf them, particularly Yasuo.

        Like I said, to be fair, I have nothing against Assassins. I like an Akali, Pre-Nerfed LB, or Pre-Reworked Kassadin over any of the new assassins. I for one, felt that the Silence removal on LB was pretty stupid. Pre-Reworked Kassadin only needed mobility nerf imo. But the unfortunate fact is that seeing Assassins in solo queue 24/7 gets tiring, it gets even more tiring seeing Assassins taking DFG and blowing you up in 1-2 seconds. And it has nothing to do with their kit, it's just DFG. Every AP assassins run DFG and it's just very very stupid. There were other AP Assassins worthy of nerf for using DFG but Ahri gets it first hand. And AD Assassins, no matter how you look at it, has a better presence late game due to their AD Scaling. Of course, I'm speaking in general terms, not to say that AP Assassins are useless late game. It is a fine archetype but in S4, it has been nothing but annoyance at best. Blame me for being unreasonable, but I liked S2 and S3 much much more.

        Arguing between traditional mages and utility mages is like arguing between Mage and Assassin Ahri that I always get when I bring up that topic.

        Traditional Mages focus on dealing more damage while Utility Mages has a blend of moderate burst damage + utility damage to keep teammates alive. In most teamfights, a traditional mage will always have more superior presence in terms of damage while Utility Mages have a superior presence in maintaining team survivability. Think champions like Xerath, Swain, Ziggs vs. the likes of Lux, Karma, Lissandra. Someone like Swain can carry harder compared to Karma, but Karma can support harder than Swain. Isn't that an obvious difference?

        It's also like saying how Mage and Assassin Ahri is the same. Assassin Ahri runs DFG, Cap, Void Staff while Mage Ahri runs Rylai, Cap, Abyssal etc. One is entirely focused on assassinating priority targets while the other is focused on contributing as much teamfight damage/ or steady streams of DPS through survivability. It's a lie imo, if someone says terms such as Assassin or Mage, or Burst and Utility is no different at all. Then why does Riot even bother making spotlights and introducing their champion's kit anyway :l.

      67. Is Gragas jungle is still good post nerfs?

      68. Bence BálintAugust 17, 2014

        why zed isnt tier 1, explain pls

      69. I think it's actually Vel'koz Support that is raising the winrate, and not Vel'koz mid alone...
        Both Mid/support Tier 1, or at least Mid Tier 1 and Support higher up in Tier 2. God Tier is pushing it a little bit.

      70. Galio is hard countered by Udyr and Braum (free stuns), avoid picking him against those two champions, and you're fine. I am also a fan of Galio, and if AP tops become popular again (RIP Gragas), he will see a rise in power.

      71. RundownmonkeyAugust 17, 2014

        its useable but its like a teemo jungle or an annie jungle in the way that it can be quite powerful but their are better options from the real jungles.

      72. That's Xerath... and Ziggs mobility is just a short jump with 20 sec cd.

      73. RundownmonkeyAugust 17, 2014

        His simplicaty is what puts him here as he does have everything you want from an ap caster. Although i personaly shit on him with swain and karma.

      74. Looks like I can start playing Kass on ranked... For a week, then people will ban him again doesn't matter if he's strong or not :D

      75. Indirect nerfs - Botrk, Exhaust, QSS, Zhonyas. He's ult just get countered easily.

      76. wukong onlyAugust 17, 2014

        My ideas on this patch:

        Ad carry's positions are pretty accurate, I don't think I would change it a bit, but idk if lucian and kog are still god tier worthy, maybe both very top of tier 1, right order though.

        Support's positions are basically perfect. Think about moving braum down though, he offers nothing in a safe lane and only really is effective now if picked with a caitlyn. Btw did nami get nerfed this patch, why is she down from god tier, she is perfect in this meta.

        I think the maokai nerfs hit him pretty hard, maybe top bottom of god tier and high tier 1 jungle. And perhaps there shouldn't be so many junglers in god tier.

        As for vel'koz I find this hard to believe. He is literally the weakest champion against assassins in the game and is pretty easy to tower dive by junglers. Vel'koz becoming meta would be some extra freelo for me when I pick wukong against him. Honestly I can't see one reason to pick vel'koz over zyra (which may be god material).

        Kassadin tier 3? I agree he is not very strong right now, maybe tier 2 (seriously a champion with a half second cooldown flash is finally balanced, how is that possible). He definelty is better than his win rate shows because very few people take the time to learn a champ that is permabanned and he can still carry a game via roaming bot.

        I think lux should go up to the very top of tier one, very strong champ right now.

        Once again I'd like to ask to move wukong up as a mid laner to god tier. He is much better mid than top and jungle by far. To compare wukong to a god tier champ he is easily better than talon (which I agree is god tier as well right now), as he is the most similar one to wukong. Wukong has a much, much stronger laning phase and early game than talon with his gap closer being literally half the cooldown of talons early game. Wukong imo has better roaming potential (this is debatable), because he has much stronger ganks at level 6, though talon can roam more often with lower cd ult. Wukong also has much better teamfight potential because he can much more easily stealth in teamfights and oneshot the squishies while having the ability to knockup a whole team. As a wukong top main, I think it's fun and great, but there are no questions, no way is it as good as mid lane wukong for climbing elo, I've pretty much been through elo hell only playing wukong top/jungle/mid/adc/support.

        My god tier list would look like this
        Top lane: Swain, maokai, wukong
        Jungle: Amumu, rammus, fiddlesticks
        Mid lane: Wukong, swain, talon
        Adc:Tristana, jinx
        Support: Morgana, leona

        Other than that, good job on the new tier list.

      77. Eduardo Nio ConcepcionAugust 17, 2014

        because there's a fine line between a good zed and a bad zed and most of the time in solo queue you'll end up with bad zeds
        or you're just retarded and fed him

      78. Don't let everyone know how good Vel'koz mid is. It must remain my little secret.

      79. Ivanovich10August 17, 2014

        Agree entirely on adc's, I don't see why Lucian and Kog'Maw are still god tier for solo queue.

        I agree on supports for the most part, aside from the fact that Braum still seems like a strong pick for me, easily tier 1. The reason I picked him when he was seen as OP was because of his ridiculous cc and damage soaking in teamfights, both of still remain. Lane bullying and damage were both things that were nice extras, but without them Braum is still tier one to me.

        I'd argue that the nerfs were harder on top lane Maokai than jungle Maokai, because when ganking from the jungle, it's rare to see a Maokai have their ult on for more than 10 seconds, and without building RoA, the mana cost itself is enough to convince jungle Maokais not to have it on for any longer than the new limit. On the other hand, top lane Maokai thrived in duels by having his ult up from start to end, sustained by RoA, and with the max duration implemented, top lane Maokai's ult lasts far shorter than it used to. God tier for jungle, tier 1 for top.

        I'd put Vel'Koz at the top of tier 1, no higher. I see him as virtually identical in role to Xerath, and as such I'd suggest a virtually identical tier placement.

        I'd put Kassadin low in tier 2 post nerfs, since I see him as close to Lee Sin. High skill cap, very low baseline of success, and as a result, low win rate.

        Agreed on Lux.

        Curious how Wukong adc worked, but I feel like Wukong should be tier 1 top/jung and god tier mid as well, your disciples have started filtering into my games, and they seem to succeed as often as Swain.

        My current list for god would be more like this:

        Top: Warwick (climbed too fast and too easily with him to not give him this credit), Swain, Maokai, Fiora (her win rate is back on the rise now that a few of the fotm damage soakers, such as Maokai and Gragas, are starting to weaken)
        Jung: Amumu, Rammus, Jarvan 4 (I haven't seen Fiddle in the jungle for a ridiculously long while, so I won't claim the ability to judge him, could be god or tier 3 for all I know)
        ADC: Tristana, Jinx, maybe Kog'Maw
        Supp: Morgana, Leona

      80. wukong onlyAugust 17, 2014

        How wukong adc worked? Well the first time I played it I destroyed their jinx, and ended up winning the game! Best day of my life, realizing I could carry with all roles as wukong. The reason I did it is because I am so experienced at wukong that I'd play him anywhere and do better than him with any meta champ in that role. So when I have to adc or support, I won't hesitate to bring out wukong. Only games I'm not confident about playing are games where I can't wukong. Idk if he is god tier for top and jungle as well, I feel he is tier 1 for those, but maybe it's because I know his weaknesses, I just know wukong mid is the most broken freelo ever.

      81. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        As a person who goes on PBE just as much as League, I can say for sure that Gnar is at least Tier 1.
        No comment on Zed, as my win rate has mid lane has fallen so I'm purely Support now.
        I'll explain my support opinions in a bit as a new comment.

      82. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Now let me get into detail about why I dislike the Support placements by giving my own tier list for Supports.
        God Tier: Braum, Morgana, Leona, Blitzcrank (?)
        Tier 1: Blitzcrank (?), Annie, Alistar, Nami, Sona, Lulu, Janna, Thresh, Zyra (?)
        Tier 2: Zyra (?), Karma, Xerath
        Tier 3: Maokai, Fiddlesticks, Malphite, Nidalee, Syndra, Gragas, Kayle, Taric, Veigar, Lux
        Tier 4: Anivia, Orianna, Nautilus, Zilean, Teemo, Volibear, Nunu, Ashe, Vel'Koz, Leblanc, Gangplank, Soraka, Poppy, Shen, Elise, Lissandra, Galio, Yorick
        There'll be a summary for each below here, but I keep having to step away from my computer, so I'll put it here soon.

      83. Elise is pretty much not good anymore? Pick rate at 3.9%, win rate is 45% and her ban rate is like 1%.

      84. KingoftheSocksAugust 17, 2014

        Possible Vel Koz Support in there, he plays quite similarly to Support Annie so I feel like they'll be in a similar spotKin

      85. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Vel'Koz is a terrible support. End of story. I used to think he was good at first, but the fact that I've squashed so many of them with SONA and he's fairly immobile, high skill cap due to all of his abilities being skill shots, vulnerable to all gap closers, he's extremely vulnerable to CC, long CDs, lacks any form of hard CC except for his E which does barely little in terms being easy to dodge and skill reliant, he has no heal nor a shield to give, he's EXTREMELY squishy, and due to a channeled ability, he's quite easy to disrupt and burst down before he can fight back.

      86. Galio will have 200 armor (zhonya's, W, and base armor). Last whisper will still only shred through 70 of that armor. 130 damage nullification from armor is still something like 60%. Add in the heal from his W and no AD champion will be able to kill Galio.
        Also, having an AD mid means that there is going to be limited magic damage on the team = bad news bears.

      87. But you... You definitly are :3 ... Lmao

      88. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        My edits aren't sticking sometimes :(

      89. I find it strange that Vel'koz mid is god tier with champions like Swain, Talon, Katarina and Fizz or even Yasuo that can either: dodge skillshots easily, interrupt ult, or negate skill shots. And he has no mobility or any real cc to protect from assassins.

      90. Support is bad because all Supports have got cc to interrupt your ult. And vel'koz has just damage and waveclear ( well you aren't supposed to take cs from adc anyways) you have almost no cc (your only cc is a skill shot) and you have no shield, heal, movement or attacks speed boost, or any way to boost your adc. And I agree with mid vel'koz, he just does not deserve god tier.

      91. Hahahahaha, we all agree.

      92. Why were Nami and Fizz moved down without explanation?

      93. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Hell no it's not Support Vel'Koz. It's definitely mid Vel'Koz.

      94. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Realization that Nami isn't actually godlike.
        Don't know about Fizz.

      95. Nami was good but just not good enough to be god tier compared to Leona, or Morgana.

        Fizz, I don't understand too, when a champion like vel'koz (who doesn't deserve god tier) is god tier, a champion like fizz is good against him so it makes even more sense for him to be god tier. And he didn't receive a nerf.

      96. I see ur logic but the problem is that people still love top play Yasuo, Fizz, and Zed. Even though they have been nerfed repeatedly they still have a very high pick rate.

      97. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Win rates don't mean everything. See SSJ's article on win rates.

      98. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        But he's not simple. His only form of hard CC is really easy to dodge.

      99. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        DFG was not for the assassin meta, it was to balance the changes caused by the assassins.
        Also, why are you against assassins? They've been here for a while since Season 1, specifically Kassadin, Katarina, and Evelynn.
        We've been in a mage meta for a while. The Ziggs/Morg/Syndra/Orianna is primary proof.

      100. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        This is probably the longest comment I have EVER made on this website, and I'm really sorry if anybody gets lag from it :(

      101. RundownmonkeyAugust 17, 2014

        Hes very simple to play as his laning phase is strong due to geometry on his q and his w and e combo is really easy to land from a safe distance as for the complaint on his lack of CC you could say the same about other chanps that do the same thing such as ziggs and xerath.

        ps i dont personaly play vel koz as i perfer swains more in ur face gameplay however the mid for the team im in plays him main and quite frankly once he learned how to play him properly hes been unstopable lately.

      102. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        But his combo ISN'T easy to land. His whole kit is too easy to dodge and reliant on how good you are on skillshots. Have you noticed that there is less people playing Vel'Koz than there are on Veigar?!? One could infer that the win rate is largely bolstered by people who main him and not by his actual abilities.
        But it's not just his lack of CC that's hurting him! He's already really immobile, which means escaping is really hard to do. Safe doesn't cut it if you can't move fast while someone's chasing you with a gap closer that Vel'Koz is EXTREMELY weak to while Vel'Koz waits for his long CDs.
        Also, Vel'Koz is a high priority target, and it's not because he's OP. People are way more likely to target him, and interrupt his abilities as well as how easy it is to dodge his abilities if it's in the hands of a Bronze, or even Silver!
        Skill caps hurt.

      103. Marco Antonio SopranoAugust 17, 2014

        Okay after seeing Thresh getting moved down to fucking Tier 3 just because of his low winrate I'm not gonna follow this list anymore. It's anot all winrates bro...

      104. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        He moved down to Tier 2, not tier 3, and it wasn't just because of his win rate. Look at SSj's article:
        Thresh was largely put down by the nerfs as well as being countered by more and more popular supports.
        I also disagree that he's Tier 2 as well. He should be at the bottom of Tier 1.

      105. RundownmonkeyAugust 17, 2014

        your agruement on veigar is invalid more people play him as hes easy to play as its just press q press r and there dead. his combo is rather easy to land as once you land the e the rest is easy and if you cant land the e then you really need to practise landing it.

      106. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        ... I didn't even go into detail about Veigar. I was just inferring that Veigar is rarely seen, and if Vel'Koz is even less seen, what can you say about who plays him?
        What you said has nothing to do with Vel'Koz and you're changing the subject! It doesn't matter because Veigar is TERRIBLE! He's been that way for a long time, and he's not changing now with this mid meta.
        But anyway, why change the subject? Putting off a conversation onto another doesn't mean you're rebuking an argument. You're just causing more. Stick to the dang point!

      107. Marco Antonio SopranoAugust 17, 2014

        Oh yeah Tier 2, since it's the third tier I kind amixed that up. Okay thanks for the reply and yeah he shuld definitely be higher, he's still got so much utility, alone his lantern is such a unique and in my opinion overpowered mechanic and he offers so much more to that.
        Oh and first comment doesn't mean i didn't follow this list at all =)

      108. Where is the Viktor support :3

      109. I believe the Mid lane gods should be as follows: Orianna, Lux, Velkoz, Swain, Talon, Maybe Fizz.

      110. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        If I were to put it somewhere, it would probably be Syndra and Gragas. Too unorthodox, but that doesn't mean it's incredibly terrible.

      111. Vel'koz actually does quite well against Swain, Talon, and Fizz, and utterly wrecks Katarina. He also wrecks Akali. I will give you yasuo though. Assassins are only good against Vel'koz once they have mutliple items. Until then, he can easily turn on them and outdamage them.

      112. RundownmonkeyAugust 17, 2014

        lol you were the one that brought up veigar i was just having a counter point on that subject also more that half of the last comment was about veigar. but if you want to stick to the point as you say lets do that. Vel koz is strong at all points of the game as a mid laning mage, he has 2 forms of cc one soft his q and one hard his e he deals alot of damage as his pasive proks true damage every few spell hits yes he is squisy as most mid mages are but he makes up for this with range and just the shear amount of damage he can lay down in aoe form is insane. for a solo que champ hes the best at what he does at the moment and thus is in the god tier.

        now im off to take my dog a walk i shale answer your enevitably reply later.

      113. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        **** no Vel'Koz doesn't wreck Katarina or Akali. Both easily counter him, with the latter getting real close. What are you smoking?
        The same can be said for Vel'Koz, as he's also item dependent. He may do well against Swain and Talon, but Fizz, Katarina, and Akali all show you are inexperienced with Void creatures.

      114. Vel'koz still counters Annie. Oh god I am terrible.

      115. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Yes, Vel does counter Annie. :(
        Why I don't play Annie vs. Vel anymore XD

      116. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Too congested, and I disagree. I may be less experienced with mid lane, but it would be more like:
        Yasuo, Kassadin (?, big ?), Fizz, Lulu, Talon, Akali

      117. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        I didn't go into depth on Veigar! I merely took a random champion that is rarely seen but still played more than Vel'Koz, inferring that he's played only by mainers!
        Vel is NOT strong at all points of the game, and probably has one of the worst early games ever! You've clearly never played Vel.
        His Q is a soft CC, and is also hard to land. His E is even worse to land, and is easy to dodge, as I've already said! It's hard to proc his passive if everything he has is skillshot reliant!
        His range is reliant on his positioning, which is hard to do with his mobility being bad. With people in Bronze and Silver not capitalizing on this point, they won't do any good unless they play him a ton. His AoE is too reliant on his team's positioning, again thinking Bronze and Silver this simply isn't true!
        He's not the best at what he does! Far more mages do better than him. Examples such as Syndra, Orianna, and even Ziggs to boot!
        Vel'Koz is definitely Tier 2, and you're doing what most others do, which is an excuse. We all know you're clearly just going to argue later and are giving an excuse so people like me look like the bad guy.

      118. I fell with Bronze-Gold Yasuo's are difficult to come by because he does require a team with knockups to be effective.

        Kassadin- I don't really know, I believe he is pretty balanced.

        Fizz- I see so many people even in Plat messing up how his E works and killing themselves.

        Lulu- The nerfs hit her pretty hard, I would say tier-1 still.

        Talon- I fully agree.

        Akali- I think she is in tier-1, she may have crazy damage but CC and a pink ward can ruin her way too easily.

      119. Hey! Veigar is tier-1 to me! squishy nasus mid that has a great kit, great ratios. He just has god awful range for a squishy like him. But I can see him being bugged in the future

      120. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Yeah the Akali, Kassadin, and Lulu were a bit of a push. They're all really Tier 1.
        I disagree with Gold and some of Silver regarding Yasuo. His win rate is steady, and even if it's low, it's largely because of how much he's banned.
        People messing up with Fizz in Plat? Never seen that, and I'm Plat IV.
        I actually think that the mid meta is slowly getting more and more balanced.

      121. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Same here. If only Veigar was much better.
        But still, if Vel'Koz is God, then Brand and Malzahar are. They suffer from the same negatives but are much better.

      122. It's because people in plat to me seem really damn cocky, and just go for raw damage over the mobility which has gotten many killed.

      123. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        THAT is true when it comes to Kassadin and Katarina. I see way too many times where they think they can outplay and don't.

      124. I actually think malzahar should be God right now, but not brand.

      125. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        And yet Vel is. So something must be wrong with Malzahar. And that's where logic comes in. What's keeping THEM from benefitting that Vel doesn't have problems with?
        The answer is: Nothing. They're both really bad. Both suffer from having to be on top of their positioning, on top of their skills, and on top of thier micromanagement regarding CDs. Malzahar actually does way more damage than Vel and is just as safe (i.e. not at all).
        Glad someone is figuring it out.
        Just to wrap it up, Vel shouldn't be God, not unless Malz's win rate goes higher and he's placed in God.

      126. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        I agree. Sad that it can't be on this tier list because it's not as popular than any of the other unorthodox supports.

      127. RundownmonkeyAugust 17, 2014

        back and by the way malz should be in god, brand although i love the bastard is probably just shy of it although he is close, back on velkoz you made the point that hes to relient on skillshots id like to state that if you cant use skill shots you should just avoid the mid lane in genaral as most champs have some sort of skill shot and its usualy one of there main abilities.

        id also like to state that since veigar was brought up may i sujest that you play veigar when ever you see one of the champs mentioned as i thing youll find that hes not as bad as you think.

      128. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        But Malz shouldn't! Did you even read our paragraphs?!?
        Actually most mids aren't as skillshot reliant. Main examples are Yasuo, Fizz, Talon, Akali, Katarina, Zed, Kayle, Swain... need I say more?
        Vel is skillshot reliant to a FAULT! Every single ability he has is necessary and is a skillshot. They're also all easy to dodge, unlike Syndra and Orianna.
        Excuse me sir, I have played Veigar, and he's terrible. Countered by most mids and most other mids can do better than him without problems.
        I'm arguing against someone who hasn't played mid lane anymore than I have, and has never played Vel'Koz! How am I supposed to compete with somebody who knows just as much about Vel'Koz as the new champion that hasn't even been heard of yet?

      129. Hmm he may do good against swain but Talon? Hell no, he can silence him and then burst Vel'Koz since he is 0 mobility.

      130. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Have you noticed that this is the ONLY website that puts Vel'Koz so far up there? Reignofgaming, metalol, and cloth5 all disagree, and put him somewhere in Tier 2 or less!
        I'm not arguing that Vel is bad, but he's certainly not super viable either. Tier 2 is the way to go with him. Unless you can show me 10 Bronzes who play mid a lot and don't main Vel and still do good with him?

      131. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        He was talking no sense when he mentioned Katarina and Akali? How do you use your range to your advantage when their whole kit is about getting close XD

      132. He can be tier 1 but lowest, and he is extremely hard to play. His ult is not as strong as what it used to be but still, it is quite useful. The lantern is very useful but in teamfight the shield won't be as effective. His flay and hooks are good but imo blitzcrank is better at hooks.

      133. As someone who mains Vel'koz mid and lanes against both regularly, allow me to educate you. Katarina and Akali are both assassins with no CC that have to be right on top of you to deal most of their damage. Vel's main weakness is are his abilities are slow moving skill shots that are hard to hit on mobile targets. But it's incredibly easy to land these abilities on enemies that are right on top of you. So long as Kat and Akali can't instakill you, you can easily turn on them with a E-Q-W-R combo and force them to back off, if not kill them outright. Not to mention that Akali and Kat are both melee, so you can very easily harass them as much as you want pre-6. Fizz is a little bit different because of his troll pole, but he suffers the same problems as Akali and Kat. If you survive his burst and his mobility on is CD, it's extremely easy to turn on him.

        The only assassins I find are a consistent threat to Vel'koz are Zed, Talon, and Rengar, all for similar reasons. They can get their damage our faster than you can retaliate. Kat, Akali, and Fizz do not unless they managed to get quite fed elsewhere or it's reached late game and Vel'koz was too stupid to buy a Banshee's.

        I first pick Vel'koz in ranked all the time, and my eyes light up
        whenever I get to face an Akali or Katarina. I even take TP mid against
        all champions and still come out ahead the vast majority of the time.

        Akali and Kat seem like counters to Vel'koz on paper, so I see why people feel that way. But as someone with plenty of experience, it doesn't play out that way in game, unless the Vel'koz is retarded. Just don't throw out too many skills willy nilly once they have their ults, especially your E, and you'll be fine.

      134. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        BS when you say both Katarina AND Akali don't have CC. Akali has twilight shroud sir.
        No it's not easy to land abilities on people on top of you. Akali's whole kit works as something that DOES. Anybody who has dashes (both) easily dodge his abilities, and once they get close, it's over. They burst him down before he gets his abilities off, due to long CDs and a lack of burst. Most assassins, if they actually have a brain, bait out abilities to jump on him. Most of his abilities rely on staying still, a BAD thing to do with an assassin on your tail. Combos don't work if they're too close for comfort. His Q and W BOTH rely on them being some form of distance away. Shunpo and shadow dash also ensure they stay ON the Eye of the Void.
        There's a lot of people who counter him, both debated on mobafire guides and championselect. Yasuo, LB, Fizz, Talon, Zed, Kat, Akali... Those are all examples even the bad championselect give as well as pros.
        I want to see your history. Most of that argument relies on situational fights and doesn't hold water.

      135. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        My explanation lower in the comment section:
        " I call BS that he's a Tier 2 pick. His utility is still extremely reliable, and he's still a default pick for supports, with tanky stats, high damage ranged poke, strong lane control, a solid escape, and great in teamfights with his ability to swing games due to great engages and WE'RE STUCK IN THE BOX... or it's called a lockdown. I like the stuck in a box better"

      136. Well, Kat can't move once she starts ulting, and Im not missing an E on an akali thats on top of me unless she flashes. Here's my profile.

        I havent played vel much lately so I dont have match history to show you, unfortunately.

      137. First Vel'koz has NO WAY no survive fizz, akali, or katarina burst. Akali has three dashes so she can dodge skill if she jumps to a minion and jump on Vel' again. And she has spell vamp with twilight shroud. Katarina can poke you ez pz with q, and if she has the occasion qwe if she is close or qew.

      138. You are right for laning phase but the box won't do as much damage. And his teamfight was nerfed with the lantern and again the box.


      140. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        It's not the damage as much as the slow. CC is everything when it comes to the turning of teamfights.

      141. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Going through your match history through the actual league server, I see no evidence of you ever going against a Katarina OR a Akali in the past 5 weeks.
        In fact, most of the people you won against were usually against an Orianna or a Lux.
        So you're telling me, btw, that you would wait for Akali to be on top of you to use your E? That doesn't sound smart.

      142. And I still call this bs that ashe is higher than varus ezreal and vayne or heck, even quinn.
        She deserves tier 3 with Swain, Warwick, Amumu, Wukong, Talon, Fizz, Vi and many more popular champions that wreck her. In laning phase she gets rekt by popular supports and adc's.

      143. Dagannoth RexAugust 17, 2014

        Can anyone give me their opinions about Corki and his placement in Tier 1 and Nunu jungle?

      144. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Whoah whoah whoah. Ashe is perfectly fine where she is. If anything, Varus should be Tier 3, Vayne SHOULD be higher than Ashe, and Quinn should be Tier 4.
        Ashe counters a lot of popular ADCs, such as Vayne, Jinx, and Draven, She has high CC, her Hawkshot is great for scouting and its passive is great, decent AA range with great poke, a pretty darn good late game, and a game-changing ult.
        Vayne, clearly, is exrtremely squishy. Varus sucks balls. Doesn't fit in the meta and certainly can't even compare to Ashe. Quinn is even worse, as common supports take FULL advantage when she goes into melee and/or she comes in to initiate.
        Swain should be Tier 2, not Tier 3. He's not that bad. You clearly didn't read the blue article for Warwick, Amumu, or Wukong, and if you think Talon, Fizz, and Vi are bad, you're talking BS. The first 2 being the undisputed best assassins currently, and Vi is just a great jungler in medium~high ELO. Period.

      145. I dont know why it doesnt show. Ive fought plenty of both.

        And yes, that's exactly what you should do. Vel'koz's turning power is insane if you can land your full combo. And letting her jump on you is the easiest way to make sure that combo hits.

      146. Well Katarina's biggest damage comes from her qwe not from her r, yes it deals good damage but it isn't the biggest source of damage. And like I said, the moment you use your e, you are dead. And zhonya means your ult is negated. Akali can burst you easily and you wont be able to burst her down because of shroud and ult

        And I forgot, Riven completly destroys vel'koz.

        Anyways, Vel'koz just DOES NOT DESERVE GOD TIER

      147. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Then why 9 times out of 10 in even pro plays with Vel do they not do that?
        I feel you're hitting something called main bias, where you refuse to believe that there are small problems with someone you love.
        You seriously think Akali is going to jump on you just like that? Even before you do a single ability? That's some BS.
        It's even more unlikely that Vel is going to do a full combo at close range. It's easier to dodge if she sparks Twilight Shroud, which she certainly is going to do.

      148. They consistently do, so yes, I think they will.

      149. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        No they actually don't. You really haven't played against an Akali.
        They don't just jump onto a Vel, or any champion in general. That's not even what an assassin does! Most bait it out or wait in a bush and THEN jump after you've used an ability. For god's sake I wonder what you know about a Talon with that logic.

      150. I have no idea why it doesnt show that because Ive fought against at least 2 akalis in the last month. And if they dont want to fight? Fine by me. I win farm lanes too.

      151. Omg. I think you misunderstood when I said she deserves tier 3 with all the chapions I said. What I meant was she deserves tier 3 because she gets destroyed by the following champions I mentioned, my bad. And Varus is a million time better than ashe: Long skill shot that deals tons of damage, w can deal 15% hp damage, his e is an aoe slow that can easily proc his w, and his ult is far from bad. And he has an excellent passive. He just does not have the mobility which ashe does not have too.

        And vayne is not so popular, and jinx can easily survive laning phase, and late game jinx with her rocket out range ashe and if she wants to get close she get snared and jinx has got better dps.

        Ashe late game is good? 1v1 if she is good maybe but in teamfights she gets wrecked, Her hawk shot and ult are good and her passive is hard to get in teamfights or when you are in laning phase.

      152. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Of course they want to fight. Did you even read the paragraph? Seriously?
        Unless you can confirm that with na.leagueoflegends's match history, I beg to differ that you have done it in the past month. I've already checked while we were talking >_>
        How do you win farm lanes without expanding an ability? You make it out like you're having a perfect time in lane. Things don't work that way.

      153. Dr. Mid LaneAugust 17, 2014

        Played a few games as kassadin and he still has carry potential but now you can not just press R for the sake of doing little poke. You will then have to wait 20 seconds for that damn mana cost to fall. And it takes forever. Kassadin is not worth playing anymore.

      154. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        BS he's a million times better. As a support, I can say that Varus desynergizes with almost EVERY SINGLE ONE!
        That's flawed logic. That's almost really, really stupid.
        He has to stay still to do damage for that "long skillshot". Do you think that's going to fly with Ashe?
        Time to Q, I've got a W, turn off Q, keep toggling it to do more Frost Shots. Someone with AA vs someone reliant on skills doesn't work.
        Ashe has mobility, but it's a different kind. It's called Slow CC.
        Jinx can "easily" survive laning phase? BS. You've never played with a Jinx as someone who has a heal.
        Ashe is brilliant in teamfights. An ult can secure a kill and takes down a top competitor in the teamfight. The rest is just AA and you're forgetting that there's such thing as life steal and AA.
        This is the most biased argument I've ever seen. Clearly you've never played Ashe!

      155. I'm not sure what match history you're looking at, but I'm looking at, and I see 2 akali games, a talon game, a kat game, and a fizz game all in the last week. And spending 1 W charge is more than enough to keep the wave at bay post level 6, and two charges can fully clear the wave once you have athenes.

      156. Andrew GallettiAugust 17, 2014

        I have been playing Kassadin for quite some time now, and tested the waters after his latest nerf. Riot has absolutely destroyed his laning phase. His q is a pathetic waste of mana, and his w and e are not much better. Most champs are able to easily sustain themselves through any early game damage Kassadin can output. His late game is stale as well and is heavily item dependent. Rift walk still remains an excellent engage and escape tool, but with little damage to accompany it I think that Riot has gone a little to far with the nerfs. In addition a few patches ago they nerfed his slow's duration which takes away from what little utility he had in team fights anyway. It breaks my heart.

      157. Andrew GallettiAugust 17, 2014


      158. Varus sinergizes well with Nami, Leona, and morgana because he can land his ult and q easily with those supports and they can peel for him. To say that he DESYNERGIZES with EVERY single one is exaggerating, I know you main support but still. His q has got a long range and even if he is slow he doesn't stay STILL.

        Varus has got very strong aa and has god strong skill so he isn't completly skill reliant. And lucian is skill reliant too and he is god tier so I don't think being skill reliant is a problem. Varus has got good movespeed anda slow plus a snare.

        Ashe has got it too so we can't really argue on that.

        There is a different between surviving and dominating. Jinx does not need to dominate to do well soo uhh yeah.

        Ashe ult can secure a kill but that goes same with varus and even if it is a snare it still secures a skill and it SPREADS. Varus aa are very good and varus also has life steal.

        Varus has got more damage than ashe which is the most important thing for an adc and he has very good range.

      159. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        I'm looking at the official match history provided by Riot
        I see a fizz and a talon, but not an akali nor a kat.
        1 W means no combo. How are you also getting Athene's if Akali is going to be aggressive?

      160. Glad you took Fizz out of God Tier. But really, Talon and Vel'koz?

        Talon is great assuming you are amazing at him. He has no real escape aside from his ult (which isn't that great of an escape anyway). That means that overextending and mistakes will get you killed easily. Probably not a good thing for a bronze-gold tier list.

        Vel'koz I know nothing about. But it does seem strange to me.

      161. Vel's W holds 2 charges, so you can use 1 to clear the wave and save one in case she trys something. And pre-6 she cant do anything to you. At all. She wont have the burst to 100-0 you before you get athenes. At least, thats how it always is for me. You can argue with me all you want, but you're basically arguing with theory against experience. And my experience is that I play Vel'koz mid with flash and TP, and regularly wreck Fizz's, Akali's, and Katarina's who are my skill level.

      162. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Experience is flawed if you main someone. You get cocky and start thinking your opinion is better because you play someone more. It's like arguing rank, but much worse.
        I have experience. It's called seeing a LOT, and I mean a LOT, of Vels doing terribly. 1 good vel doesn't mean the rest are either.

      163. Most Vel's are terrible, this is true. But it doesnt mean Vel isnt good against Akali and Kat if the Vel player is actually good at Vel.

      164. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        Now that's some BS.
        **** yes he's skill reliant and desynergizes with most if not all supports. Most of them are aggressive and can't handle someone who stays sometimes, and while some can, they can't capitalize on it. Varus is incredibly slow. It's not about skill, and it's not skill that he has a problem with at all. I didn't say crap about that. He's just TERRIBLE in close combat due to him having to stack or charge 2/3 basic abilities to get the best out of them. It's also hard to escape once you have been caught as the slow from his E isn't strong in most cases. Varus also falls off once he hits late game due to a lack of any real steroids. Varus has no movespeed whatsoever, you're talking crap.
        Ashe has strong AA but isn't too bad regarding supports. Ashe is aggressive, never defensive, and Varus is just the opposite, being countered by most ADCs. Varus ult is good, but is way too reliant on the other team's positioning.
        Varus does NOT have more damage than Ashe, and you have no math to back it up. That's an outrageous comment, especially since most people who play Varus get past the mid game before they fall off completely.

      165. ShadowSectAugust 17, 2014

        But we're talking too much situationality! You still have yet to prove that you've been against Akali or Kat recently (since both sites actually don't show those games, just checked the one you gave me), if Vel has such a high skillcap, than why are you arguing schemantics when he CAN be countered just because you are the one exception, even if you might not be one actually.

      166. I think this is enough of an explanation

      167. Here I'll use bronze logic that works.


        That is the truth even if it sounds noob-like.

      168. I dont know how youre not seeing these akali games, because Im looking at them right now.

      169. Ivanovich10August 17, 2014

        Interesting story on Wukong adc, makes sense I guess. And as for ww, Wukong is a soft counter due to those awkward decoys and wu's ability to peel him off, but in five ranked games (small sample size, I know, but Im not a top laner) and maybe 20 normal games, I've only ever lost one game as ww top, simply because his sustained damage is unimaginable, and if there is only one fed enemy, you can shut them down hard at the beginning of a fight with your ult, whoever they maybe be, until they buy qss. In addition, since ww is a rare top lane pick (never seen an enemy ww in the time period since ww has been declared god tier top by SSJ), people will often underestimate his dueling potential in longer fights or stick around when their health bar is low enough to be finished off by a ww ult q and an auto or two.

      170. gnar will land in tier 1 at least for sure.

      171. Why is nunu so low in jungle? His kit is good and he's great at protecting the carry.

      172. peelforadcAugust 17, 2014

        *grabs popcorn*

      173. Malzahar should honestly be Tier 1 or POSSIBLY 2. He's strong, not quite OP but a very good pick.

        He takes good positioning though and a good Q. IGN: AtroposOne

      174. In competitive 5v5 he is phenomenal, but for solo queue his strength is much worse

      175. Ctr+F= Malzahar top of tier-1 for mid and tier-3 for jungle

      176. For top Lane Nid, Is it better to build AD or AP? What are the core items?
        Full build if you ppl have time? :O

      177. RundownmonkeyAugust 17, 2014

        you keep saying ive not played the champ which i have (hes not my favorite champ but ive played him enough to know that hes good) as for the lane its self i main jungle, but mid and sup are my next choices for position and as such i have played a lot in mid lane. all im getting from your argument is that you've not played him that much to get a good opinion of him.

      178. Bruiser. Trinity is core all I know :P

      179. Ivanovich10August 17, 2014

        I recommend Trinity Force, Bork, then tank

      180. NOOO LEAVE TALON ALONE :( plz -_- :((

      181. Talon is god, he counters almost all of the meta champions, and he is the only assassin remaining with a silence.

      182. Dr. Mid LaneAugust 17, 2014

        Talon is easy to snowball uncontrollably and I am Silver and I win a great amount of matchups as him.

      183. Now thats some BS.

        Of course he is skill reliant, but he has got strong auto attacks. You are talking about his Q like if it took 1 minute to charge up and most of the time you dont engage with Q. My brother played 300 games with varus season 3 and 200 in s4 and I duo with him a lot so I think I know a lot about Varus. Most of the time, you either: Finish fight with Q, or fire your q fast without charging the whole thing.

        He is just terrible in close combat, THAT GOES SAME FOR ALL THE ADC'S IN THE GAME. Varus has also got excellent as with his passive so charging up 2 or 3 basic attack is not a real problem.

        Varus CAN play aggresive with his good attack range and his passive along with his Q. Like I said to say that Varus desinergize with every support is pushing it too far.

        Also it isn't about math, Varus has 4 damaging skill, ashe has 2.

      184. SSJ!!!!!!


      185. KASSADIB? No, just no

      186. Wait, so just because some random noob is bad with Zed in unranked, he shouldn't be tier 1? Logic

      187. Vel'Koz god tier is both uncalled for and contains no reasonable evidence to support it aside from theorycrafting (which never works, remember how we all thought Lucian would be shit after 4.12?). Please, SSJ, move him back down, most of the tier 1 mids are MUCH better than him anyway....

      188. Ivanovich10August 17, 2014

        I'm impressed by Blitzcrank's win rate, but at the same time, I still often see Blitzcranks that will deliver the amumus or pantheons to your ad carry, and due to that common occurrence, I wouldn't rate him higher than tier 1.

        On to Thresh, I feel like tier 2 is the place for him, same as Lee Sin. A lot weaker as his win rate shows, and he isn't easy to use, but the pick potential on his q is still amazing.

        As for Xerath and Velkoz, I'd leave both of them in tier two, with Velkoz edging toward tier 1. I feel like judging Vel based on his performance against Sona is harsh since Sona has heals, and sustain does well against poke. That being said, these two are very similar, poke the enemy adc like hell so your adc has a farm advantage, and provide relevant damage and cc in teamfights. I give Vel'Koz the edge since I've seen him a lot more recently as support without a similar surge in popularity in mid, and at the same time Vel'Koz's win rate is on the rise. Might be a false correlation, but it's curious nonetheless.

        The rest of the list has my full approval.

      189. He is NOT bouncing back. Sooo bad now, the previous nerfs were bad but this is the final nail in the coffin for Kassawin.

      190. Ivanovich10August 17, 2014

        Oh, and with the amount of cc and tank he has, I put Gragas in tier 2, he just has insane peel for the hypercarries that you see these days.

      191. And I'm on a computer who's CPU is a tin can that smells like piss because of your support comment, how do you think I feel :(

      192. Ivanovich10August 17, 2014

        I see Yasuo as too circumstantial, he never does well without someone to combo with, and the only knockup jungler I see regularly these days is Jarvan.

        Kassadin is Tier 2 in my opinion due to the high skill cap

        Lulu's glory days are gone in the midlane, she belongs in Tier 1 or 2, she is simply outperformed by other mids these days.

        Otherwise, good list.

      193. Dr. Mid LaneAugust 17, 2014

        What does low effort to benefit ratios mean? It says that for tier 4.

      194. It means you don't get enough out of that champion compared to others for the same amount of effort. A fed Tristana can win a game a lot easier than a fed Urgot can due to better scaling, range, and safety.
        SSJ's explanaiton: These champions are either underpowered or offer less reward than other champions for the same amount of effort. These champions basically start winning from the get-go or get made fun of for the rest of the game. They need gold to do their job correctly, and if they don't get enough of it, they become sandbags for the enemy team to punch. Chances of a comeback with one of these champions feeding on your team is almost none.

      195. dw his pick rate is still very low: 6.21%


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