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SEASON 4 - PATCH 4.5 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
SEASON 4 UPDATE
SEASON 4 UPDATE
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
So Diablo 3's Reaper of Souls pulled me away for a little while, but I've finally managed to wrench myself from the rifts back to well...Summoner's Rift. Anyway, the new 4.5 patch introduced some new items, most importantly Feral Flare. Check out the list below!
With the last patch introduction of new items, the meta seems to be shifting away from mid lane having the most impact more towards top and jungle. This last patch definitely had a lot of movements, so I'll be doing a few between patch updates just to keep it up to date.
Patch 4.5 Summary
Updates:Buffs: Anivia, Graves, Rengar, Miss Fortune, Twisted FateNerfs: Fiddlesticks, Heimerdinger, Lee Sin, Leona, Lulu, Renekton, WukongTweaks: Gragas, Kha'zix
- Added mid lane Fiora
- 4/19/14: Move Warwick up to God Tier
- 4/20/14: Trundle moved to God Tier, Karma mid moved up to Tier 1, Nocturne moved up, Wukong top moved down; Jungle Jax moved up
Use CTRL + F to Search For Champions
God Tier [Very Strong]:
Mid-Lane Gods: Kayle, Ziggs
Jungle Gods: Master Yi, Warwick, Wukong, Amumu, Xin Zhao, Kha'Zix, Vi
AD Gods: Jinx, Draven, Miss Fortune
Top Lane Gods: Fiora, Wukong, Trundle, Nasus, Jax
Support Gods: Leona, Sona, Thresh, Morgana
Tier 1 [Really Strong]:
Mid-Lane: Katarina, Talon, Swain, Akali, Kha'Zix, Orianna, Karma, Heimerdinger, Anivia, Leblanc, Yasuo, Lux, Morgana, Galio, Malzahar, Ahri, Brand, Nidalee, Syndra, Pantheon, Diana, Lulu (AP), Fizz, Wukong
Jungle: Nocturne, Elise, Jax, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Pantheon, Volibear, Rammus, Jarvan IV, Udyr, Lee Sin, Sejuani, Aatrox, Tryndamere, Hecarim, Dr. Mundo,
AD Carry: Caitlyn, Sivir, Lucian, Varus, Tristana, Ezreal, Graves
Top Lane: Kayle, Renekton, Shyvana, Dr. Mundo, Singed, Tryndamere, Master Yi, Warwick, Soraka, Yasuo, Darius, Teemo, Olaf, Rengar, Aatrox, Yorick, Kennen, Jarvan IV, Elise, Malphite, Lee Sin, Udyr, Volibear, Karma, Nidalee
Support: Taric, Zyra, Lulu, Janna, Blitzcrank
Tier 2 [Balanced]:
Mid-Lane: Viktor, Cassiopeia, Fiora, Annie, Kassadin, Kennen, Mordekaiser, Zed, Vladimir, Vel'Koz, Xerath, Zyra, Teemo, Elise, Lissandra, Sion, Ryze, Jayce,
Jungle: Shaco, Skarner, Nautilus, Olaf, Zac, Maokai, Nasus, Shyvana, Rengar, Leona, Trundle, Malphite, Gragas, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Ashe, Corki, Twitch, Kog'Maw, Vayne, Quinn
Top Lane: Rumble, Cho'gath, Zac, Xin Zhao, Riven, Pantheon, Ryze, Viktor, Shen, Poppy, Akali, Quinn, Vi, Swain, Kha'Zix, Vladimir, Garen, Jayce, Lissandra, Zed
Support: Annie, Nami, Fiddlesticks, Karma, Alistar, Soraka
Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
Mid-Lane: Gragas, Karthus, Veigar, Riven, Twisted Fate, Tristana, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks, Soraka
Jungle: Nunu, Cho'Gath, Shen, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Riven, Kayle, Poppy, Darius,
AD Carry: Twisted Fate, Kennen, Urgot
Top Lane: Irelia, Gangplank, Mordekaiser, Sion, Vayne, Talon, Nunu, Galio
Support: Teemo, Nunu, Volibear, Lux, Nautilus, Orianna, Nidalee, Zilean, Gangplank, Shen
Tier 4 [Difficult to Win]:
Mid-Lane: Kog'maw, Zilean, Janna, Ezreal (AP),
Jungle: Gangplank, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry:
Top Lane: Urgot
Support: Kayle, Malphite, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Maokai, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc, Caitlyn
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
Champion Explanations
- Anivia [Tier 1 Mid] - Although the buffs this time around didn't really help her an extreme amount, the previous patch changes on tear have helped her slightly. Nerfs on a lot of other popular mids make picking her more viable.
- Fiora [God Tier Top] - As the meta shifts, she simply excels against squishies without enough CC to burst her down before she ults.
- Gragas [Tier 3 Mid] - The tweaks on Gragas were really more of a nerf I suppose, as his win rate's plummeted to rock bottom. While he still does a decent amount of damage if you land all his skills, the range and damage reductions really hurt his overall margin of error.
- Graves [Tier 1 AD Carry] - Solid changes to Graves in the 4.5 patch and he seems to be a little more in line with the "good" ad carries now.
- Heimerdinger [Tier 1 Mid] - A bit of a shift in power between his turrets, but he's still plenty strong.
- Kassadin [Tier 2 Mid] - While his win rate is still fairly low, I feel like he definitely has the potential to carry a game in his current state. It might just take some getting used to and a pullback away from all the AD based melee on the field at the moment before he gets his chance to shine again.
- Kayle [God Tier Mid] - Not much has changed about Kayle, but her win rate is higher than ever before. It seems likely due to a lot of high burst squishies (Yi) on the field at the moment, which Kayle excels in bursting down and trolling with her ultimate. A lot of other powerhouse mids were also nerfed such as Lulu. However, no matter what the reason is, her #1 position on the win rate rankings is hard to contest with a 9% popularity.
- Lulu [Tier 1 Mid] - The nerfs on Lulu brought her more in line with other champions as she doesn't get quite as many pix attacks off with the duration nerf.
- Master Yi [God Tier Jungle] - Ah Yi, the new Feral Flare item simply gives him an insane amount of scaling and jungle clear. I'd say he's almost a must ban at the moment (never thought I'd see the day...)
- Miss Fortune [God Tier AD Carry] - Huge buff on Miss Fortune. While she still isn't the most interesting of champions to play, she's a massive bully in lane as always and now scales fairly well late game as too.
- Renekton [Tier 1 Top] - With his ultimate nerf, he's definitely not as scary as before, but I'd say he's still strong in his own regard and is a safe pick.
- Tryndamere [Tier 1 Jungle] - Similar to Master Yi, I never thought I'd see the day when Riot released an item that made Tryndamere jungle good...but here it is.
- Urgot [Tier 3 AD Carry] - While the tear buff should have helped Urgot somewhat, his win rate is still dead last. He's just difficult to fit into the meta at the moment, and probably better suited for just Ultra Rapid Fire mode.
- Warwick [God Tier Jungle] - Feral Flare has greatly assisted his clear time and late game scaling, and nobody really gets QSS anymore due to all the AD damage going around.
- Xin Zhao [God Tier Jungle] - Anything item that makes Master Yi and Tryndamere viable junglers will obviously make CC king Xin Zhao absurdly powerful as well, and he is. He's not banned quite as often as Master Yi, so feel free to spam him to your heart's content.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
Master Yi Jungle God.. please HELP US !!!
ReplyDeleteGood tier list but Lucian deserve God tier, i think.
ReplyDeleteYup ^^ with the new Flare Flame he is doing more dmg than before o.O and he is so easy to play : /
ReplyDeleteI think Nidalee should be at the god tier she is really strong right now
ReplyDeleteand ryze should be at tier 1 in top and mid lane aslong as you don't pick him first so you don't get countered.
What about ryze? I believe he should be at least tier 1 top, maybe even god tier. Just an opinion
ReplyDeleteWhy Sona is in God tier now?
ReplyDeleteI think the worst is not the Flare Flame but the ult of Yi & his Alpha Strike...you build crit and there you go 2-3 swing maximum any APC or ADC (with +100armor) goes down...
ReplyDeleteHe is indeed god tier material but i found 2 things on him since i have be chosen to play a lot ADC lately is that he is extremly manavore & his skillset ask some good training to be used at the optimal way...the last nerf on his passive reducing the range of it made it force to position him self in risky moves...
ReplyDeleteI honestly think Tier1 aint bad at all!
In my opinion I think Nocturne should be one of the god tiers, the feral flare makes his jungle clear absolutely amazing and his ganks are solid even without having to ult 24/7 with high amounts of burst despite having a really un-burst like kit, he's versatile, can build tank or damage, the enemy uses something to get away no problem you spell shield it, very strong against champions like Master Yi, Xin, Lee Sin.
ReplyDeleteDespite her spear poke which deal huge damage i must remind you that SoloQ ain't U.R.F mode which mean her skillset as distant spell is limited to only that with medium CD...
ReplyDeleteGoing cougar mode and chasing is often bad idea and so her Support/AP style is decent for Tier1 but god tier...
I mean lets compare to Kayle...i think SSJ point right into that...she is somehow a safepick for sure strong also but God...just no :/
I might be wrong but its true the Sona up in God Tier looked weird but i think its a change made by SSJ which is oriented to patch 4.5 about the runes since the LF Quint nerf...many ADC stop using it (even my self)
ReplyDeleteAnd since the ADC cannot substain himself early as before Sona made her way up again :)
I might be wrong but its true the Sona up in God Tier looked weird but i
ReplyDeletethink its a change made by SSJ which is oriented to patch 4.5 about the
runes since the LF Quint nerf...many ADC stop using it (even my self)
And since the ADC cannot substain himself early as before Sona made her way up again :))
Tier 1 i could agree God Tier...not so sure!
ReplyDeleteAgreed now to say God Tier or Top Tier 1 i don't know...but SSJ should seriously consider this i have seen a few of them which lead a team to victory all by 'em self!
ReplyDeleteAh, that's right, I had forgotten about the rune changes. That would make sense as well, thanks :)
ReplyDeleteThoughs about Master Yi in top so high?
ReplyDeleteExcellent Tier List SSJ! once again!
ReplyDeleteThe MF move surprise me you made me curious i will say what i think about it if i can later on.
Like Cooper said below you must consider moving Nocturne higher he is honestly a great jungler now with Feral Flare!
Im really surprise of you moving Fiora to god tier in top i mean...the substain early is like afk on her...what could possibly make her go God Tier? In my opinion a God Tier is dedicated to champion which goes from early to late swiftly with almost no difficulty im having a doubt on her...
May you give me an explanation about this?
I honestly think we came to the Era of Atk Speed champions (mostly for ADC & Jungler) i heard a lot of interview of pro player saying that not only one but one in particular which most of you NA players must know Crumbz which is right now the highest Challenger jungler which made up a Jungle Tier List for this patch with another player unknow to me which must be at least diamond.
Here is the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Au8NBa6z4uo0dHg5amVOUzZqZjdLOUhOR0F0QkhiWkE&output=html
Also a last word i have see you made Twisted Fate stay Tier 3 while i think he is on the rise from 45 to 48% winrate and the buff he received are still fresh put in my opinion he is coming back people are just forgeting about him which is good for a player like me :D
But i think his new core item should be Lich Bane + Twin Shadow (worth 11% Move Speed) + Quint 4.5% Move Speed + Masteries 3% = 18.5% movespeed...
He should be Tier2 logicaly since after several test the W Spell (Pick a Card) buff made him easier to play (without mentioning the animation which help new TF player to pick cards easier!)
Well thats a lot of talk sorry for that but i do not think to be wrong on most of my conclusion!
Waiting for your reply!
Have a good day. )))
I'll just take Zed to fuck the yi :)
ReplyDeletewhy is zed still tier 2 :(
Tons of damage(crits) he is on the rise atm...
ReplyDeleteBecause you and i...and most people playing this game ain't Bjergsen or Faker or any of those.
ReplyDeleteHighskill Set...how many times do we have to repeat it?
You are welcome MattyP :) i have been doing a lot of research lately im starting to dedicate a lot of time in those theorycraft & tierlist...
ReplyDeletemy only problem is the lack of talon even being on the list for mid
ReplyDeleteChalice Nidalee or/and blue buff Nidalee can siege for ever unless they manage to hard engage before you landa single spear witch is more than enough most of the time to made the carrys run to heal or for your team to follow up, she is a beast in roaming and can heal when she is behind in lane
ReplyDeleteI agree with the MrSpade
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE FINALLYYY <3
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE FINALLY MAN!!
ReplyDeleteWelp the last fiora rant isnt enough and now I'm gonna have to explain why she sucks again...
ReplyDelete1. Shes hands down the weakest of all viable AA reliant champs, comparing here with master yi, aatrox, jax and tryn all of them have some sort of niche that makes them VIABLE in the meta (fiora is not). This is for top lane btw not jungle.
Master yi: same thing, lacks cc yet has reset potential, scales much better with items than fiora, provides reliable sustain in lane, true damage, and sticks to targets just as hard (fioras main strength in the meta)
Aatrox: top 5 best lane sustainers in lane: hybrid damage (e and ult magic) guardian angel passive, ult and passive gives largest attack speed steroid in game (bar like 1% olaf) 2 forms of CC (1 hard) and same thing dives the back line like crazy yet doesnt get 1 shot by a team with off-tank builds
tryn: same thing sticking power, long AF cc, cant die for 5 seconds. thats longer than fiora's ult duration so he can burst back line more reliably (get the idea that all these champs dive the back line just as if not more reliably?)
jax: 2 steroids, hybrid damage, great defensive capabilitys scales very hard into late game and is hard to play around him after 20~ mark or so.
Thats at least the rundown of the champs that fit her role yet provide something other than just another damage dealer.
Also on fiora take the best top laners in the game as of now, and simply put they should have a roflstomp with her in lane and out of it.
ReplyDeletenasus: after level 6 she cant duel him, the wither duration and strength of it is to much for her to overcome, and before that the teleport buffs help him get to that point.
jax: counter-strike counters her in every way, if she iniates then he has 2 seconds to out trade her VERY hard and same goes if jax does, only difference is jax gets more damage if he initiates it.
Kayle: zones her from level 1 and baits very well with ulti, shoves lane into tower and makes her miss cs so being able to waveclear with hydra gets greatly delayed.
Renekton: simply to much damage output her her to handle with early and can outsustain her from a bad trade anyways. The second she pops her ult he pops his and you know where she lands, right under your feet to get bursted down.
Those are the matchups from my experience vs fiora, from your best top laners at the moment. And 2 last things if you could answer to me.1. Why is wukong the "best" top laner still? hes not and has damn near no good lane matchups and the q nerfs make his level 1-2 all ins a lot worse to prevent snowballing. 2. fiora is also to easy to counter item vs her, frozen heart shuts her down greatly pair that with randuins shes having a 30% aa speed reduction, to name the most obvious one, thornail as well. I feel as if you're taking her success on numbers alone then transitioning them into words on why shes "good" when in reality she has little team utility and doesnt fit a team comp outside of HARD engage comps.
Other than that the tier list is looking very nicely, well done! The meta is very heavily shifting twords attack speed champs so the frozen heart on a Tank/support I feel will become a mandate to fit on a team for fights later in the game with the amount of them going around. Anyone else thinking so too?
ReplyDeleteLoving the tier lists keep them going. Fiora god tier... couldn.t agree more just started playing her and she excels in team fights with her ult. She's can hit you a lot and you can even choose to build her a bit tanky which is nice.
ReplyDeleteSona moved to God tier? Houston, we have no problems.
ReplyDeleteI still seriously consider that there is a Heimerdinger top lane, that's either Tier 2 or Tier 3.
Will of the ancients got a pretty nice buff IMO, got actually some large ap numbers. Any champ that can make a large usage of it, mainly swain,vlad,morgana,ahri should get re-looked at for mid/top in their placements maybe get a bump up in their positions?
ReplyDeleteI think Karma deserves a little boost to tier 1
ReplyDeleteAnd Taric and mundo should go up a bit due to heal buffs
ReplyDeleteWhat of Nocturne? Feral Flare surely buffed him as well.
ReplyDeleteI actually believe him and jayce deserve tier 1 :)
ReplyDeleteand for supports karma and taric deserve higher
I agree that Viktor should be in the balanced tier, but I think it needs a bit more explanation, since it isn't too well known.
ReplyDeleteNever thought I'd see the day where Master Yi is using his ult to clear jungle camps faster. Of course you can see why when he comes out of the jungle around 30 minutes with 50+ stacks on his Feral Flare.
ReplyDeletestill no wukong mid in god tier?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about the "new" gragas in the jungle? He had a slow and stun now so he van give soms Nice ganks
ReplyDeleteTier 1 second name
ReplyDeleteThe problem with fiora is that nobody knows how to deal with her correctly. Sure, you can beat her in lane and make sure she can't kill you, but she can still farm up easily and be of great impact in teamfights later into the game. Also, most fiora players use her the way she's supposed to be used, as an assassin, and start roaming after shoving the lane. This makes her help snowball other lanes without a problem.
ReplyDeleteOne other thing about fiora is that she's one of the best, if not, the best splitpushers in the game. She has great dueling abilities and can take almost anyone the enemy team sends to stop you. After you kill him, your E will help you take out turrets in seconds.
The reason she has such a high winrate right now is because tanky laners are slowly getting nerfed, which was one of fiora's greatest counters. Now with the meta slowly shifting to attack speed/high damage laners, she starts to rise again. Her snowball potential is outrageous and her ultimate deals insane damage if you can land it on a full team. I strongly believe Fiora is a god tier top right now and that she deserves her place on the list.
nobody thinks about nocturne with flare flame :c
ReplyDeleteHe can solo baron at 15 min and wipe your team, WHY RITO
ReplyDeleteWhat you said at the start is the main issue with her. Her success is not because she is in fact a good champion but only due to that (flame war srry) you guys that face her are simply bad at the game. If you are to the point where you cant live her burst (its pretty light burst actually early on, only if she weaves basic attacks over 5 seconds does it hurt) then you dont know how to top lane. All you have to do to beat her in lane, which then transitions into late is ZONE her. Honestly if you have the ability to keep the lane frozen and make sure she cant reliably cs (by that I mean without her overextended, remember 0 escapes at all) then you win the early game with her. Also if you see her they most likely will be hyper aggressive early so in doing that call your jungler up pick up the free kill or AT WORST take her flash and win. Or if you're playing ranked (my arguments are to this mode anyways) just take t-port or exhaust and you can out-trade her or have a larger map presence. Which also goes into the fact that if you're putting her top lane her ability to roam on the map without a tower being taken or 2 is GREATLY reduced, and thus will make her fall off as her kit simply does.
ReplyDeleteSkarner also benefits from Feral Flare. Maybe he should be tier 1?
ReplyDeletewhy is not lucian in the god tier anymore? in my opinion is better than draven
ReplyDeleteYou underestimate Draven then...
ReplyDeleteRoaming no doubt but in term of teamfight presence sorry Kayle & Ziggs are above her...
ReplyDeleteYAY
ReplyDeleteNo Very high tier 1 shaco?
ReplyDeleteTry shaco with it :)
ReplyDeleteScary....
I've mained Fiora jungle for almost all of season 3. She has always excelled in teamfights, but her only downfall is being countered in lane by jax/renek/malphite. Because of this, I would never first pick her top.
ReplyDeleteShe's insanely strong now with feral flare even though she fits a weird niche pick of being an adc AND an ad caster. Her ult applies 5 stacks of FF (like WW) and her e + tiamat makes her clear speed insane. If I farm for 15 minutes I can 1v2 almost any pair of champions with fiora jungle and solo baron around 30 minutes.
Just bring in Yi with Infinity Edge, Statikk Shiv, Trinity Force, Boots of Swiftness, Phantom Dancer, and Thorn Mail, and there's your rape machine.
ReplyDeleteaatrox in the jungle with the new item??
ReplyDeleteI understand Master Yi Jungle being better, but what changed about top Yi to make him tier 1?
ReplyDeleteI believe shaco should be considered tier 1. Feral flame massively increases his damage, due to his clone being able to make use of the FF onhit damage. Also, he can farm camps extremely quick with a stattik shiv pickup after wriggle/ff inbetween ganks. His assassination potential improved aswell and his ganks havent been changed, so he is still a top ganker. consider his replacement, as he hasnt been changed spot (tier 2) since patch 4.5. thx
ReplyDeleteoh also nocturne should definetely be placed high tier 1 now :)
ReplyDeleteandddd, zac is underlined and his c is bolded, a mistake i assume?
ReplyDeleteI think any jungler that scales somehow with attackspeed has beast material. I could 1v2 fizz and ezreal as noc today with botrk and feral flare :) its a damn strong item
ReplyDeletesoraka should be god tier right now. shes already being abused/banned/contested in competetive play and in solo queu i see her carry all the time.
ReplyDeletewhy the hell would you build thorn mail on Yi... if you need armor Randuin's is far better or Guardian Angel for the passive
ReplyDeleteWhy is Nami below Sona? Can I get a little bit of explanation here?
ReplyDeleteI don't get how Fiora mid is Tier 2, while Riven mid is down in Tier 3. I'd say the recent nerfs favored her in the mid lane now. Sure her early game damage was nerfed, but her late game is still monstrous. And when ever a Riven has flash and ult up, it's pretty much a free kill since most mid lanes are squishy. Not to mention with the new Rune changes, you can start the game with 20% cd reduction, and since you rush brutalizer, the bumps it up to 30% 10 mins into the game!
ReplyDeleteShyvana insane jungle with feral flare like the other jungles should be tier 1
ReplyDeleteAnyone else going to say it? Udyr with feral flare is terrifying.
ReplyDeleteI hope to see more play with him aside from Trick.
Rivens late game isn't good at all unless you have kills or farm and with ranged champions in mid she can get zoned pretty hard.
ReplyDeleteWhy is master yi tier 1 top
ReplyDeleteI was about to say this tier list was terrible, then I realized it was solo q. Renekton should be in god tier though. He has no counter which makes winning lane incredibly easy. If you consistently win your lane, then you climb very steadily.
ReplyDeleteWHERE IS GRAGAS TOP !!! WHY WU KONG STILL IN TOP GOD WITH THE NERF !!
ReplyDeleteHe was god tier last patch but with the nerf to his ult early he loses about 100 health when ult is used which is quite alot. i am a renekton main and he still is strong and his late game got buffed but its is somewhat harder to win a fight if they ignite you and you don't have that 100 health like you used to have.
ReplyDeleteShe is much harder to play than sona eg. while nami has to land bubbles perfectly and get good positioning for her ult to line it up properaly so champions can't escape it, sona can spam abilities and use ult which is faster.
ReplyDeleteAny opinions on Malzahar?
ReplyDeleteFizz is also pretty useless without any kills but he is still Teir 1.
ReplyDeleteSorry if this is listed somewhere on the site, but is this list determined purely through solo queue win rates?
ReplyDeleteChances are he'll make it on there soon enough. His move set is super viable top lane, the problem though is succeeding against other strong top lanes like Nasus. I'm predicting Gragas will be in tier 2 top maybe.
ReplyDeleteSomeone please find a way to push Garen in to god tier plz. lol Even if it has to be an adc Garen, id take it.
ReplyDeleteNo its because of feral flare. Master yi was never on the list before feral flare existed. CCGG
ReplyDeletewhat is the buildpath on fiora?
ReplyDeleteWhere is Shyvana's Jungle? The Feral Flare + Her E + A bunch of AA's and the natural tankiness make her op.
ReplyDeleteFiora. God. Tier. Wow, never thought I'd see the day too!
ReplyDeleteI'm skeptical of Master Yi. By choosing him, you're giving up the the utility and ganking power of an elise, or the teamfight impact and tankiness of an evelynn, for what? Split pushing? Dueling power? I'd rather run a Jax in the top lane and reserve the jungle for a champ that can get all the lanes rolling.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind, even with the feral flare- until you get those twenty five stacks, you're no better a jungler than you were in 4.4. And it's in those crucial opening minutes when you don't have the stacks when you as a jungler will have the most individual impact and are most needed by your team. If I'm AFK farming wolves with Yi and the other team's Pantheon is ganking lane after lane, it won't matter how good I am with the flare because my entire team's been denied a ton of xp and gold and we'll likely lose any engage because of it.
Basically, this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAWgKBMY9HQ (starts at ~3:35)
Veigar is very strong even against his hard counters and may become the new Gragas, he should be tier 1 if not god.
ReplyDeleteI would probably play him all the time if he weren't so boring after a while.
why is wukong still top of god tier?
ReplyDeletei don't know, let's see :D
ReplyDeleteok, Zed is not easy, but he is not that hard, that just pros can play him. He is maybe on a level with lb and yasuo (which are both tier 1). I play him often, also in ranked and this is a solo que tier list, so i say, he derservs to be in tier 1.
I knew Tryndamere was a good jungler. I had suggested before that he should be moved up.
ReplyDeleteHmm you tempt me i loved him back in S1 or S2 don't remember )))
ReplyDeleteRyze i cant understand due to matchups & the nerf of other toplaners but why Jayce? I really love Jayce but cant feel really strong with him i mean like from one day to another chain win with it...
ReplyDeleteGA instead of Thornmail in 90% of the case better!
ReplyDeleteWell... I guess you just liek banana? :v
ReplyDeleteIts not all because of Feral Flare...a good part but not all since Nocturne is on the rise just like him
ReplyDeletemaybe, still i think that lucian is better, and you underestimate lucian then
ReplyDeleteZed is sort of higher skillcap than LeBlanc & Yasuo he is closer to a Lee Sin...how often you see a good lee sin? just admit it and voila
ReplyDeleteNot really i play both lately and i can tell you both have sort of issues while lucian range imo is problematic after nerf and early match up draven win it and scale better than lucian.
ReplyDeleteDraven 2x Q outscale Lucian damage early...thats all
After its all a question of preferences but placement is harder on lucian since what i mentioned before.
Why isn't Fiora under mid yet?
ReplyDeleteAnd why is her jungle still tier 3? A champion with that much cleanup power, that much skirmish power, that much synergy with red buff, that much mobility, that much dueling power AND decent jungle sustain and clear can't be tier 3.
Personally I think Feral Flame is stupid on Fiora. She doesn't build attack speed, Feral Flame is about doing DPS, and Fiora is about burst, she'd apply maybe 100 damage with it to one person, it's not worth the item slot for Fiora. It'd apply on her ult, but I mean, I'd rather get Shiv for an AS item, if you get one at all since her ult is about on hits.
ReplyDeleteWhy Yi also climbed to tier 1 in top lane? :S I understand that he's awesome in jungle with the new item, but he has nothing new in top I think.
ReplyDeleteI think his range gimps him, in higher elo the positioning makes his job a bit easier.
ReplyDeleteI think his stun has great utility, and he has some great damage, though.
Last time I brought up malph support I was a noob who didn't even really play ranked. Now I'm a silver ranked solo queue player who mains support. I main Leona, Sona, and Morg and now I'm not saying that malph is as good as any one of those three supports but I have similar win rates with all three and malph is much more effective as the game goes on in the current meta that favors tankiness. I'm not saying he should be tier 1 or god tier but a strong consideration for tier 2 or 3 should be considered.
ReplyDeleteI still feel like Kayle needs a little buff mybe 550 range or little more dmg to Q. Don't take me too seriously Kayle still shreds like mad and as my main I love her above everything else but it just feels like the risk you have to take to deal the DMG are little too high. Meanwhile Nidalee sits behind can run away any time and throws our spears that can almost one-shot my carry that is unbalanced in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteRyze is a fairly strong pick however, he is a complete hit or miss champion who lacks a viable method of escape. If the enemy team picks a tank with Teleport the game is basically over as they can just Teleport bot for a tower and Dragon while having no worry of a ryze ever killing their tower. If Ryze decided to follow the Teleport then the tank would simply just do more just because they are a tank and to top it off Ryze would have no hopes of ever killing the tank in lane without ignite. Ryze does great against a lot of the squishier tops but he's more of a noob stomper than a hyper carry to get a win.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot to take into account 2 important things with these match ups. Fiora is able to beat down All of these champions at low levels while having better mana costs (with the exception of Renekton who's always oom). Fiora has a very strong low level fight due to getting a damage return that blocks an Auto, 15 free Ad from the same Spell, and high mobility at lower levels than all of these champions. If Fiora gets a kill on any of these champions then the game is over for all of these champions as she can just freeze the lane on her side on top of having the enemy laner lose a few levels due to their tower farming. Basically if any of these champs Push (which all of these do) with the jungler coming into play the game's over for them (Even if the enemy jungler is there too).
ReplyDeleteYes, Fiora is a burst champion who is often played as an AD caster (hydra, black cleaver, last whisper, CDR boots). That being said, I have used FF as Fiora jungle in probably around 50 games since it came out. I'm plat 2, so I'm not playing with the pros but I'm definitely against people who know what they're doing. I've been absolutely dominating with it. Fiora's q-aa-q-aa gives her two auto-attack resets to apply the FF damage. Her maxed out e gives her 120% attack speed that resets with champ kills/assists.
ReplyDeleteYou have to try it. If you're going to farm mostly and only countergank, I recommend maxing e instead of q just because it gives faster jungle clear and, unlike sotel, we don't get that 8% spell vamp that makes maxing q worthwhile. Not to mention her mana problems without spirit stone.
As a Fiora jungle main, I'm wondering why she isn't on this list especially now that Feral Flare is a thing.
Umm you seem to be theorizing but it looks like you have never actually played Fiora before. Fiora has some of the strongest Autos with one of the best animations for timing and hydra in the game. She has a built in sustain passive along with excelling at out trading a target. Fiora also has a high amount of burst potential while being able to beat down a target with more HP than herself. A fiora with 280 Hp at level 3 can kill a full hp Vlad through ignite and live to tell the tale. She has a high DPS and she's one of the fastest tower destroyers in the game because of her bonus Attack damage from her Parry paired up with the Attack speed she gets from her E. In all of these match ups FIora actually beats down everyone of these champions that you mentioned to be Superior to Fiora. In fact the only thing these champions are better at than Fiora is at running away. All 4 of them being quite specialized at it while Fiora to a fault has no function to escape. You may not like Fiora and you may hate her simply because you can but Fiora has one of the highest win rates for a reason. She's simple to use while she deals high damage.
ReplyDeleteCould she be Yi mama? :O
ReplyDeleteI guess its the ATK Speed buff of 4.5 aint sure but i agree with you...
ReplyDeleteTier3 nothing else
ReplyDeletePersonally I rejoice when I see the enemy team pick Nidalee. Nidalee has a tendency to lead her teammates to death for her to get kills while not doing much with that gold. All it takes to beat an enemy team with a Nidalee is to catch her out once. When you do the enemy team loses their most fed player and the games over. Nidalee may seem appealing because of her ability to run away and just throw spears however, her lack of Area of Effect damage is quite harmful to her team. Having a 1.5k spear doesn't do much if the enemy team has a tank with 200 MR and 4k tank willing to walk through them to get to your team.
ReplyDelete-It's true that Nami is WAY TOO harder to play than Sona, still she has better CC and more poke and sona can't really peel like Nami can. Once you learn to land bubbles (still not THAT MUCH hard), you'll be able to carry your adc without a problem!
ReplyDelete- I didn't say that Nami is better support than Sona, or anything like that, but WHY did you put Nami in the same tier with Fiddlesticks and Soraka?
-I'm main support player, and I PERSONALLY think that you made a mistake there about the Nami position in this tier list.
Every champion is bad without farm or kills... And that still doesn't answer my question about why Fiora is higher on the Tier list. Fiora can be poked outta lane just as easily, and a good Riven will use her shield to mitigate damage properly.
ReplyDeleteyep, and lee is tier 1
ReplyDeleteMaybe you just don't play Zed to know him good enough.
Didn't realize, but still not enough to climb 2 tiers :S
ReplyDeleteFor one. the tear buffs help him out quite a lot but also with the ability of him being able to bully quite a lot to the tanks that don't have strong early's even though they are falling out of favor
ReplyDeleteThe point of the post was not of matchups but of what they bring that she simply cant. Also she doesnt scale that well at all into late game, where are you getting this idea she does? Her ratios on her ult are the only thing exceptional, and her e is such a short steroid I Bother notice it as an ability. Also her ranges on her q and ult are quite short thats unless the enemy fucks up so hard in positioning she wont be able to q onto the adc. But thats one of the few gripes I have with her, I know shes MUCH more of a solo que oriented champ (like singed most notably) yet even then I always find ways to deal with her as a champ. Only a matter of time before the rest of the community does hopefully. Malphite comeback Patch 4.6!
ReplyDeleteim a midlaner and i said closer not like...but nvm
ReplyDeleteWell, it's not just tankiness anymore. It's also burstyness, tankiness, and heals. Heals are more important now due to the Life Steal Quint Nerf on ADCs which make them less viable, which means they need a support that can not only take damage, but heal any damage the ADC gets. Unfortunately, Malphite has a very rough early game, and while he has a great poke going for him, he goes mana hungry early, and he has no heal going for him to keep his ADC alive in another way besides his tankiness.
ReplyDeleteAnd me being the support fanatic, I have most certainly played Malphite support, but it just doesn't synergize well with the ADCs I play with constantly. And if you ever see a Lulu support or a Sona support, bye bye Malphite.
2 tiers is a lot, but that Feral Flare buff certainly packed a punch.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention it certainly synergizes the most with his kit than other junglers, although it does give Xin Zhao a pack. I honestly want Xin to drop back to Tier 1, but I still think the master has more than you think he has.
Why not tier 1 karma support? I mean she can snowball bot lane fairly easy pre-6 with insane damage plus she has a ton of disengage making her a relatively safe support to pick, and her late game can be wonderful with the damage + utility in team fight...
ReplyDeleteWhy is Sona a "support god" ? :O
ReplyDeletecan someone explain why fiora is apparently the second best top laner when she has no cc and a gap closer with a long cooldown, as well as being countered by any top laner who has any hard cc or can kite ( renekton, jax, nasus, ryze etc.) yet is still considered better than them
ReplyDeleteMassive falling off late game as someone who's job isn't to do damage. She's much better off solo lane. Her best utility is the team wide nuke slow and zoning that her ultimate has.
ReplyDeleteKayle has the highest win rate in the game, and SSJ has said before something that a lot of people should know as part of "common sense".
ReplyDeleteWin rates aren't everything, but if a champion has a high win rate, that means they're winning with the champion. Playing them right or wrong.
Mostly since his move speed aint great but also the skillrange...since that nerf long time ago he was not seen anymore but top he is pretty good as an AP bruiser just with low range positioning might cost you the life if you didnt judge it correctly!
ReplyDeleteLifeSteal Quint nerfed
ReplyDeleteread below on why I think so too, shes garbage and I elaborate more on it
ReplyDeletewhy did u put it down as a nerf to fiddlesticks?
ReplyDeleteWhy is AP trist so low? She has the same/higher burst than lb, a reset to get out and she can push lanes much better than lb and lb is tier 1. I am curious about the reasoning, I am not here to argue.
ReplyDeletewhere should i read?
ReplyDeleteWish Taric was God-Tier, I can see why he's not, but I wish I knew how to play ONE god-tier champ.
ReplyDeleteMhm it affected Master yi because he was a aa reliant champion with a double strike passive, trynda, noc and ww for the same reasons. But "master yi" isn't the problem neither noc,trynd or ww.
ReplyDeleteBOTRK, STATIKK, Berserkers, IE, PD, GA.(PD can be replaced with lifesteal item)
ReplyDeleteTyrndamere explanation? :/
ReplyDeleteferal flare changes
ReplyDeleteTF tier 2 at least
ReplyDeleteIdk who if this guy is placed in silver, but this tierlist is not correct at all.
ReplyDeleteI think the JG tier and BOT lane tier is a bit wonky
ReplyDeleteyou both have some good points
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the worst tier lists I've ever seen
ReplyDeleteLucian and sivir are both definitely gods. The poke and insane snowballing they can do is amazing. Its really cool to see Miss Fortune up here though. I've been playing her since patch and she definitely does a lot more damage but I don't know if I would say shes better than Sivir or Lucian for sure. regardless, awesome list update. I always love seeing what you have to say.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Its aggravating. I've played some games where I'm under tower at level 6 scared as shit of him while my Jungler is jacking off and he just walks up uses alpha, adc and support die and he walks away with his double to jack off somewhere else.
ReplyDeleteconsider the shift into the mid and late game...one kill in lane and a level lead in lane doesnt make a difference if your team isn't dysfunctional
ReplyDeleteoh found it :) and completely agree with all the points made, she just lacks the versatility the other chamions listed provide
ReplyDeleteYeah. I always think that Yi was such a big problem in the game because of his kit, but now with the Feral Flame he just farm up to the late game and DESTROYS everything on his path, kinda sad though
ReplyDeleteI think Nami should be higher as well. She's not just balance, she's pretty damn good. She should be in the Really Strong tier next to Karma.
ReplyDeleteWarning: Sarcasm ahead.
ReplyDeleteI like how you upvoted yourself to show your argument.
I also like how you don't explain what's wrong with it, and just go with it. That's taking initiative. Very smart.
Describe why it isn't correct instead of just stating it. Otherwise what argument are you posing?
ReplyDeleteHe's in Diamond or Platinum, I believe.
Her passive allows her to regen quite a bit of health for just hitting minions also if you push lane early and go on the laner without minion aggro her burst is quite high. While riven can also do this fioras q allows her to get in faster and if there are at least 1 melee minion she can q back to that minion. In the mid game as long as she has hydra her teamfights are super deadly while riven can also be strong in team fights she is much vunerable to cc while fiora has her ult to give lifesteal do damage and give her invunerability for a few seconds.
ReplyDeleteudyr, with the new feral flare item, is god tier. At 11 minutes i got the feral flare with still pulling off a few ganks bot and mid. I then proceeded to push mid in which i killed 2 towers. By 25 minutes i had a trinity force, wits end, 20 stack feral flare, and a sunfire cape. I could 1v5 a team and ended up getting a quad from and even game to a win.
ReplyDeletefor udyr do you do tiger stance or pheonix udyr?
ReplyDeleteThe main reason is leblanc's W. Leblanc can safely get out of a tricky situation when she W's. Tristana is just jump in hopefully kill and not get bursted by other carries. That's the main reason.
ReplyDeleteAlso shouldn't malphite be rising much higher since if aa speed champs are on the ryze (hehe) his attack speed reduction is incredibly useful
ReplyDeleteRenekton is a top god. Doran shield nerfs makes it impossible for anyone but shyvana and fiora to not get bullied. Also this same nerf makes nasus weaker.
ReplyDeleteHer combo is q-aa-q-aa so you get a lot of autos in. As fiora jungle, I go Feral flare, tiamat, cdr boots, brutalizer, finish hydra, botrk, last whisper. I respect your opinion but I have found this to work very well. I max e instead of q with Feral Flare since you get a lot of damage from autos and maxing q is only effective if you can use it on cooldown. Without the mana regen from spirit stone, this isn't possible. Also, you lose the 8% spell vamp by opting out of spirit stone so q no longer heals you.
ReplyDeleteI would really like a response from somebody who knows their way around Fiora jungle. Any other Fiora mains out there have any input? I can't really take WindAeris's comment seriously because he suggested I build a shiv.
Has anyone tried gragas support yet? Valkrin said he's very viable.
ReplyDeleteI love jayce so i might be biased, but Jayce has great team fight presence after muramana. But Jayce only has poke before muramana. Jayce's attack speed steroid and poke are his high lights. Those are the main strengths. you should try it out.
ReplyDeleteDid I say to build a shiv? I said it's about the only good attack speed item on Fiora. I got Platinum IV on jungle Fiora.
ReplyDeleteFiora uses a lot of mana. I build spirit stone, Hydra, Lucidity, Whisper, BC, IE, then sell Spirit Stone for Ghostblade.
Considering I don't even touch ranked after hitting Platinum in pre-season, have my normal stats. - http://cl.ly/image/2D3r0z1z3D2E
note that creep doesnt count jungle creeps
But if you do play riven well she can wreak just watch faker
ReplyDeletei havent lost by farming flare on shyvana yet it is absolutely disgusting 12 minutes and Bam feral flare
ReplyDeletei tried it and its quite good the has good peel and cc but maybe tier 2-1 im not entirely sure i haven't played him too much
ReplyDeletewhy is Jax so low in the jungle tier? surely the Feral Flare buffed him up along with Yi, Xin and Tryn.
ReplyDeleteI've been enjoying him anyway, pick up FF and a Trinity and then get full tank, unless fed, then get a BotRK too. Strong teamfighting or a go do some splitpushing and put pressure on the map.
I was wondering that, I've never really had a problem with a Wukong in top lane.
ReplyDeleteIn Solo Queue, Karma loses a lot of power for not having the entire team on the same page. Whereas in Arranged/Challenger/LCS, you can all move in when Karma does empowered shield to mow down the enemy team. Same with Sivir, but she's already pretty good by herself.
ReplyDeleteI'm not an expert on this, but I'm guessing it's like Ezreal jungle. Yi's team has to pack CC and they will be doing that CC while Yi does the extra damage.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Ahri not on this list? I main mid with her in most of my ranked matches, and I have a pretty decent ratio of lane winning, even against her counters. I also dish out huge damage in team fights and of course charm.Add mobility and ability to chase people down when they flash she should be somewhere in this list. Probably on the difficult to play list IMO. Give it a thought.
ReplyDeleteWe are talking about top, I'm with you, in jungle is really good now, but in top has nothing new. Xin Zhao still tier 2 in top so I can't understand why Yi climbed 2 tiers :S
ReplyDeleteI feel like Shyvana should be tier 1 because of the new feral flare, it fits her more than Xin Zhao since Xin Zhao is an extremely strong ganker while Shyvana farms the jungle a lot more than he does.
ReplyDeleteI feel like putting that much pressure on your team from champ select isn't really the hallmark of the Best Jungler in the Game. I mean, if you end up with stuff like Fiora in a solo lane or Sona as a support, you've either got to pray that the other guy sticks around low enough to be dived, or just give up and farm your jungle. An Elise, Pantheon or Vi makes plays for the team, and that's a big part of what makes them such good junglers. The opportunity cost of running a jungler like Yi that needs plays made for him shouldn't be understated, and I feel that it prevents him from realistically being called the #1 Jungler.
ReplyDeleteJax jungle should be moved somewhere into tier 1, Its quite strong atm with the new feral flare. Placing hm in tier 3 which is higher skill/ knowledge than usual while lee sin is tier 1 is ridiculous. Put lee sin in tier 3, its obviously where he belongs. I disagree with Master Yi top tier 1, feral flare gave master yi an incredible boost in JUNGLE, nowhere else. Kha zix should be number 1 god tier in jungle aswell. His ganks, early and late game are still amazing. Kayle jungle deserves a lower tier 1 spot aswell, despite the lich bane nerf she is still viable.
ReplyDeleteK, well we follow almost exactly the same builds except I sometimes get black cleaver/guardian angel instead of ghostblade/ie. Up until Feral Flare was released. I did exactly what you do as Fiora jungle and I had about a 65% win rate at plat 2 solo queue with many many many games played.
ReplyDeleteYou have to try Feral Flare. I'm telling you the proof is in the numbers. Fiora's attack speed steroid is up for every camp, whereas Master Yi doesn't even use his since it's tied up with his ult. I want you to try building FF, then come back and tell me how it goes. I guarantee you'll agree with me.
I think malphite should be top tier 1 or god tier because now he is basically the old gragas but much tankier in this new meta or aa speed champs he should be incredibly strong
ReplyDeletei tried it once, but really didn't like it. I guess I can give it another shot, I mean, once isn't enough to judge it.
ReplyDeleteDo you take the blue buffs or give the to solo laners?
I'll play with maxxed E and FF next game.
What about Kayle, Twitch and Aatrox junglers? Are they better with feral flare?
ReplyDeletePeople stealing my Fiora mid... I've been doing that since season 2!
ReplyDeleteYou really don't need blues I know it sounds like a recipe for disaster but I only use my e to clear jungle. The mana return from clearing cmaps is enough to sustain the use of your e. Without ever using q or w I still have a WAY faster clear speed than if I were to build sotel. I would say, though, that if you plan on ganking at all you might want to consider a couple early points in q. If not, go all e. That's what I do anyways.
ReplyDeleteTwisted Fate is really pretty weak right now.
ReplyDeleteWhy isn't Fizz higher? I always feel Fizz is at least top 2 or 3 in Tier 1
ReplyDeleteIf you thing yi is op then you've got harder things coming your way.
ReplyDeleteSo much Master Yi Q.Q #bronze
ReplyDeleteWeak as soraka mid?
ReplyDeleteI don't think that Miss Fortune is that strong, I have played her a lot lately but I find that she can't carry very well, especially long games (55+). Please feel free to add you thoughts as I am very interesting in hearing your opinions and thoughts on this! :) Thanks
ReplyDeleteI think her lack of mobility screws her over if your team doesn't peel/if you misposition
ReplyDeleteActually, he was placed 4 spots above her :P
ReplyDeleteI'm just surprised Galio was ever considered stronger than Fizz :P
ReplyDeleteWHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU FUCKING TALKING ABOUT. YOU FUCKING RETARD DIDN'T YOU SEE EUCS. 3 GAMES AND THEY ALL FUCKING LOST WITH YI. IF YI WAS SO FUCKING EASY WHY DIDN'T HE RAPE ANY OF THEM YOU FUCKTARD. KNOW SOME FUCKIGN SHIT ABOUT YI BEFORE SAYING IT YOU LOW ELO PIECE OF SHIT.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, she brings so much hybrid damage, she gets back to lane fast, that passive really helps her get around, so she can be bot farming and then around as the team needs her. Not to mention, her laning is insane now.
ReplyDeleteI think its what he brings late game right now and in team fights. He sneaks into the team presses R and so long as the team follows up its usually a good TF for the kong team
ReplyDeleteIt mainly falls into the introduction of Feral flare, his clear time is a lot better with it and the extra damage allows him to remove the squishiest of champions very quickly
ReplyDeleteHe can better handle some of the other top laners with the recent nerfs now
ReplyDeleteWhy is Nami in the same tier with fiddlesticks and soraka??? She deserves a higher position in this tier list, right?
ReplyDeleteYou really don't need blue buffs. You can use your e on cd and regen enough mana from the camps to farm as much as you want. Even without being able to spam your q you still clear way faster than you would if you build sotel. Again, with FF Fiora is less of an ad caster and more of an adc, so the 10% cdr isn't as useful (I still rush brut/cdr boots because it's so helpful for sticking to people and having your ult up constantly).
ReplyDeleteI was watching my brother play Master Yi jungle when Feral First came out when me and him were testing it, I cried when it dawned on me he threw my Kha'Zix out the window it just gives him an advantage plus it gives him and his team amazing amounts of vision with the active, he really is absolute no skill now.
ReplyDeleteI think its because more mid laners are now ap (the main ad midlaners are zed, yasuo and talon out of all of them mainly only a zed is seen) so his passive really helps him out also his ult helps teams win the game right now champions like amumu, wukong, fiora, master yi, sona, leona etc all have damage or cc that can synergise really well with the ult.
ReplyDeleteThey're not bad champs, and she's still viable.
ReplyDelete4 Major things that make other supports better than her:
1. VERY squishy. Supports like Leona, Taric, Thresh, and Blitzcrank do this better than her. Why others are better are their heals or incredible synergy with fantastic ADCs.
2. Huge learning curve. Other supports are easier e.g. Sona. Too many people make too many mistakes with her, and use her ult at the worst of times. However, this affects her as much as it affects Orianna, so this isn't a major problem, but still a factor.
3. Unreliable CC. This needs no explanation. Other supports like Leona and Thresh have far more CC.
4. VERY mana reliant. Now I know Blitzcrank would oom faster, but she does go oom fast. And when she's oom, she's done for.
His learning curve and his squishyness are big though. And his win rate does reflect how he does in most games.
ReplyDeleteKha zix is still superior to yi in the jungle. I did enjoy how you said yi was no skill then said xin seemed interesting. He is just as noob a hero.
ReplyDeleteDoes anybody know if Riot is planning on nerfing Feral Flare, I'm just curious to know if this item might be here to stay, or if it's just too OP?
ReplyDeleteno Top lane Heimerdinger?
ReplyDeleteI heard that they might change it from 25 stacks to 30 stacks needed to change into feral flare
ReplyDeleteGalio is better than fizz overall, specially with a good composition of aoe champs. He can deal a lot of dmg (less than fizz ofc), he can tank and he can taunt 5 people in a tf.
ReplyDeletethat's still pretty bad and their still in the same tier >_>
ReplyDelete