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SEASON 4 - PATCH 4.3 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
SEASON 4 UPDATE
SEASON 4 UPDATE
Preface Chatter
Although a little late on the Lulu Elo train, the tier list has been updated for Patch 4.3. I've also added several champions to the list based on user comments as noted below.
As always, please keep comments cordial and avoid personal attacks. Thank you all for visiting!
Patch 4.3 Summary
Updates:Buffs: Corki, Ryze, Skarner
Nerfs: Gragas, Kassadin, Kha'Zix, Teemo, Yasuo
Tweaks: Fiddlesticks, Nocturne, Shaco, Gold Items
- 3/17: Evelynn moved up;
- 3/15: Kha'zix moved down; Rammus moved back up;
- 3/9: Moved Morgana, Pantheon, Leblanc up; Moved Rammus down
- 3/8: Moved around jungle gods a bit.
- Champions Added!
- Galio support [Tier 4]
- Top Soraka [Tier 2]
- Top Viktor [Tier 2]
- Vel'Koz [Tier 2]
Use CTRL + F to Search For Champions
God Tier [Very Strong]:
Mid-Lane Gods: Ziggs, Kassadin, Lulu (AP), Kayle, Gragas,
Jungle Gods: Wukong, Amumu, Elise, Vi,
AD Gods: Jinx, Draven, Sivir, Lucian
Top Lane Gods: Wukong, Nasus, Renekton, Jax
Support Gods: Leona, Thresh
Tier 1 [Really Strong]:
Mid-Lane: Katarina, Talon, Kha'Zix, Swain, Orianna, Akali, Leblanc, Yasuo, Lux, Morgana, Malzahar, Brand, Nidalee, Syndra, Ahri, Diana, Fizz, Wukong
Jungle: Fiddlesticks, Volibear, Rammus, Kha'Zix, Jarvan IV, Udyr, Pantheon, Lee Sin, Sejuani, Aatrox, Nocturne, Hecarim, Nautilus, Zac, Dr. Mundo, Shyvana, Rengar
AD Carry: Caitlyn, Varus, Twitch, Tristana, Ezreal, Corki, Graves
Top Lane: Kayle, Yasuo, Shyvana, Dr. Mundo, Singed, Darius, Fiora, Teemo, Olaf, Rengar, Tryndamere, Warwick, Aatrox, Yorick, Kennen, Jarvan IV, Elise, Malphite, Lee Sin, Udyr, Volibear, Karma, Nidalee
Support: Sona, Annie, Morgana, Taric, Zyra, Blitzcrank, Lulu, Janna
Tier 2 [Balanced]:
Mid-Lane: Heimerdinger, Viktor, Cassiopeia, Pantheon, Annie, Anivia, Galio, Kennen, Mordekaiser, Zed, Vladimir, Vel'Koz, Xerath, Zyra, Teemo, Elise, Lissandra, Sion, Ryze, Karma
Jungle: Evelynn, Olaf, Xin Zhao, Shaco, Skarner, Maokai, Nasus, Warwick, Leona, Trundle, Malphite, Gragas, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Kog'Maw, Ashe, Vayne, Miss Fortune, Quinn
Top Lane: Rumble, Cho'gath, Zac, Riven, Pantheon, Ryze, Viktor, Soraka, Shen, Poppy, Akali, Quinn, Vi, Swain, Kha'Zix, Vladimir, Trundle, Garen, Jayce, Lissandra, Zed
Support: Nami, Fiddlesticks, Karma, Alistar, Soraka
Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
Mid-Lane: Karthus, Veigar, Riven, Twisted Fate, Jayce, Cho'Gath, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Soraka
Jungle: Nunu, Jax, Cho'Gath, Shen, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Master Yi, Riven, Kayle, Poppy, Darius,
AD Carry: Twisted Fate, Kennen, Urgot
Top Lane: Irelia, Gangplank, Mordekaiser, Xin Zhao, Sion, Vayne, Master Yi, Talon, Nunu, Galio
Support: Teemo, Nunu, Volibear, Lux, Nautilus, Orianna, Nidalee, Zilean, Gangplank, Shen
Tier 4 [Difficult to Win]:
Mid-Lane: Kog'maw, Zilean, Tristana, Janna, Ezreal (AP),
Jungle: Tryndamere, Gangplank, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry:
Top Lane: Urgot
Support: Kayle, Malphite, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Maokai, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc, Caitlyn
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
Champion Explanations
- Akali [Tier 1 Mid]: Akali is surprisingly strong right now. As long as your team has a strong front line and good wave clear, she can wreck havoc on enemies and often carry a game from losing positions through her insane snowballing resets.
- Corki [Tier 1 AD Carry]: The buffs have been kind to him, and I think he's back to being a contender.
- Galio [Tier 4 Support]: Galio support requires a great deal more skill to play in order to land skillshots, but it's definitely viable. Just don't expect any miracles or consistency without practice.
- Leblanc [Tier 1 Mid]: She's still a very skill based champion, and it's always a crap shoot mid. She snowballs hard then falls off, but for those that know how to properly utilize her ultimate she can be very strong.
- Lulu [God Tier Mid]: She's an absolute beast right now, and makes teams essentially undivable. She also really helps against/with popular champions like Wukong and Vi.
- Rammus [Tier 1 Jungle]: The boots of mobility changes hurt him quite a bit. With the trend continuously shifting towards carry type junglers, he's somewhat falling off the edge. He's still strong, but not nearly the same as he was before.
- Ryze [Tier 2 Mid/Top]: As always, the range changes on Ryze have given him new life, and he's definitely stronger now. I think he's better top than mid at the moment, but it depends on the match-up. Good job Riot.
- Shen [Tier 3 Jungle]: He doesn't benefit as much from the S4 jungle compared to more "carry" like junglers, and other utility junglers like Nautilus are far stronger.
- Soraka [Tier 2 Top]: She's a very gimmicky champion, but has insane waveclear and can contend with some popular tops like Shyvana simply because of her waveclear and bonus armor on her W.
- Teemo [Tier 1 Top]: The nerfs hit him quite hard, and while he's still strong, if you fall behind it's much harder to come back.
- Vel'Koz [Tier 2 Mid]: Good poke with a very low mana cost. I'm think he'll be one of those champions that will be good eventually, but he's not that hard to outplay once you know his skillset. I'll leave this one here for now.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
not enough know about vel'koz for him to be added im guessing?
ReplyDeleteActually forgot about him, thanks for the reminder!
ReplyDeleteExplanation on Kha'Zix? I thought he would be lower due to the nerfs.
ReplyDeleteHe still seems strong, will reevaluate once we have more data.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Especially Lulu. *shudders*
ReplyDeleteI feel Pantheon jungle should be a bit higher but this isn't my tier list. Other than that, it looks pretty accurate
ReplyDeleteUnless the buffs are bigger than I noticed, I dont understand why Ryze top is so far ahead of Lissandra top, popular picks like Renekton have a tough time against her
ReplyDeleteMisspelled Galio on Champion Explanations.
ReplyDeleteThanks, fixed
ReplyDeleteStill think leblanc deserves to be higher up. Her earlygame damage is just ridiculous, her mobility allows her to remain safe and counter a lot of currently popular champs, and her lategame is far better than it used to be. That coupled with her burst ability and cc. Her weakpoint is farming but not only can she zone the enemy midlaner from farm and kill them repeatedly so they will be even worse off in farm, she can roam after that and snowball other lanes.
ReplyDeletethey're in the same tier....
ReplyDeletebut overall I would say it because Ryze just ramps up _so_ hard middle and late game. Sure, he has tougher lane matchups, but often, even when he's completely bullied (as in the Renekton example) he can farm enough to make that player look totally irrelevant by comparison later in the game. I really like Lissandra top and middle actually; I think people way underestimate her utility and trickiness, but she doesn't bring the same "2nd AD carry damage" like Ryze does.
Yes he got buffed
ReplyDeleteQ and E spam along with the passive on E give him stupid burst against the squishies he likes to W. Plus, thanks to his ult, what he's really doing in teamfights is split-pushing or farming
ReplyDeleteHmm i expected to have some PoV about the nerf on fear SSJ :/
ReplyDeleteGood job!
Urgot....you.....will.....climb.....BY MY HAND!!!!!
ReplyDeleteWhy is Xin Zhao so low? I feel like he can carry a game and he does stupid damage to turrets.
ReplyDeleteVel´koz dodgeable yes but still too strong. i see him tier 1 , he can burst his counters down, more dps then katarina with ulti or lux. he didnt deserve tier 2, same goes for heime
ReplyDeleteHis ganking is pretty good, and his skirmishing and objective control is decent. He clears the jungle well too.
ReplyDeleteHis teamfighting, on the other hand, isn't much to write home about. His ult can be a bit inconsistent, and he has a hard time itemizing late game between damage and tankiness, IMO. He has a one-dimensional kit that is pretty easily outplayed as well. The necessity to try and win games during the mid-game phase (where he is stronger relative to many other champs) hurts his solo queue viability in my opinion as well. He's good, but not stronger than the champions above him.
Top-lane, he's a bit matchup reliant due to the simplicity of his kit, and requires a bit of an intimate knowledge of the champ to really understand how to play him well. Same with mid-lane, although it isn't really played often. Would also like to mention that AP Xin Zhao (which can be played reasonably well jungle, top, or mid) is surprisingly viable as well. He's also fairly strong if you run a kill lane (read: bruiser/bruiser or similar as opposed to adc/support) bot lane as well.
tl;dr: I agree with SSJ. Xin's not too strong relative to everyone above him, but still a decent pick.
I feel Morgana support deserves a spot at the higher end of tier 2. We've seen a lot more of her recently, especially in the pro scene. Paired with a strong ADC such as Jinx her kill potential is quite high, and her magic shield is extremely effective against the stuns of current popular supports Annie and Leona. Since the changes to support she's likely to have that Zhonya's by mid game giving her a significant team fight presence comparable to that of Fiddles, Annie and Leona. In the right hands, I'd prefer her support over any of the tier 2 supports listed.
ReplyDeleteVel'Koz lacks mobility, and his Q isn't a particularly useful CC spell, IMO. His ult is nuts, though, and his burst potential is fairly high if you can set up everything right. Still not extremely powerful, but I would place him towards the bottom of Tier 1.
ReplyDeleteHeimerdinger lacks CC and mobility, while retaining limited burst damage and significant sustained damage. His teamfighting is rather particular, but if used properly he can contribute an insane amount of damage. The main problem is that, since his teamfighting is a bit weird, this can translate to his solo queue performance being a bit inconsistent. I see him as Tier 2, probably towards the top.
i think velkoz is definitley in very good tier but not godlike just because if gets the proper amount of peel, his ult can smite the whole enemy teams health.
ReplyDeleteI agree, shes a counterpick but very strong against the right matchups. Just not freelo
ReplyDeleteShe sure is being more usually picked on competitiva play, but u havê to tave in mind he ia talking about soloQ. In my opinion, the reason for Morgana to be a good pick is her counterpick capability, what means she is good against a nice part of supports due to it, but doesn't excel against the others.
ReplyDeletetry to put vel koz in support role :D
ReplyDeleteI'd put Velk a bit higher, I agree with what you are saying but his ultimate just straight up wins games and I think that should not be discounted. You would have to completely destroy him in lane for him to be useless later and if you play safe with Velk then all you need to do is show up to teamfights and press R in the right direction.
ReplyDeleteWhere is varus? D:
ReplyDeleteUmh Morgana support Tier 3? She is ranged, have a shield, her q have a really long range, her Ulti do a good damage and stuns every champ in the range...Are you sure about your choise?
ReplyDeletequinn top should be at least in tier 1. easy to shutdown any melee bruiser and snowball
ReplyDeleteNo.
ReplyDeleteReasons: Difficulty to play right, Low base attack speed, long cds, and her whole style of playing is getting in close, which makes her countered by champions that take advantage of this, such as Caitlyn. Also, she's countered by basically every ADC except for Jinx, Lucian, and Vayne. (most would say Draven, but that's skill based)
Agree.... but he said TOP, not ADC...
ReplyDeleteYeah imho God Tier even. If you haven't heard of the recent GPL games as of yet, she counters Leona/Annie really hard. Secret OP counterpick really.
ReplyDeleteAre you guys all on drugs or..? Vel'koz is underpowered atm, it is pretty obvious since he is not banned in any game & his set is pretty weak overall, and if you are an hardcore fanboy of this guy just watch some stats : http://www.lolking.net/champions/velkoz®ion=all&map=sr&queue=5x5&league=ranked#statistics
ReplyDeleteas you can see his winrate is steadily way below average. (~45%)
tl;dr : I think Velk'koz is tier 3 at best.
But im looking forward to his buffs since he still is a very fun champ :)
(and his homeward boots running animation is AWESOMEEEEE)
me cago en vuestros muertos
ReplyDeleteVou comentar em português mesmo, você perde a esperança na tier list quando katarina é tier 1 e zed tier 2.
ReplyDeleteWhat about about Xerath I actually I am seeing him get quite stronger
ReplyDeleteKog'Maw Buffs incoming!
ReplyDeleteNão Bastar ser BR, precisa ser esteriótipo....
ReplyDeleteSo, if u read a lil bit, you i'll see that Zed is very powerfull but he needs more skill than usual to snowball.
Should Irelia top not be higher?
ReplyDeleteI've been playing alot of Kha'Zix Jungle and I am starting to think that hes better than before the buffs to his Ult help him get in and get out with no problems. And even though the damage is lower than before, if you build right you can do better than before the patch.
ReplyDeleteAnd also... Skarner, too me atleast seems extremely good right now. You come in do damage and then leave with no problem.
ReplyDeleteBut katarina need more than a snowball, needs an enemy team a little innocent to make something with her ult. An she lost a lot of match up on mid.
ReplyDeleteAnd sorry for my bad english, a long time i don't practice it.
kat ta com com 52.16% de win rate
ReplyDeletezed ta com 46.45%
katarina requer dois dedos para matar, zed é um pouquinho mais tenso que isso. E para mim, o zed precisa mais de snowball do que a kat, ambos são assassinos que trazem majoritariamente dano para o time, enquanto o zed mata um e e sai mais ou menos vivo com a 2º parte da ult, a kat tem a passiva quebrada dela, você não precisa terminar sua ult. Se joga no ad/ap cary, ulta, usa zhonyas e espera 3 skills sairem de cd se mais alguém ter 1~3 hits neles
not shure se voce é brasileiro e ta dando uma repreendida no cara ou se é um gringo usando o google tradutor.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to review Nautilus's standing. Every pro jungler will tell you he sucks right now, as he has low damage, low jungling speed and low moving speed.
ReplyDeleteHijo de puta
ReplyDeletePanth still tier 2? 33% ban is for something
ReplyDeleteI'm the only one who noticed that fiora climbing? xD
ReplyDeleteLets take a look at some of the tier 1 mid laners. I think it's safe to say that most of those champs in tier 1 can stomp Vel'koz early game it's just a fact. I LOVE Wukong mid-lane and something I've noticed about velkoz is it gets particularly difficult for Vel'koz to hit you if you play smart enough. He's just too squishy, I meant he's literally a plate of kalamari set out for me to eat. With that said I think he belongs in tier 2.
ReplyDeleteAnd.. there we go. Gragas remains an AP Mid God along with some others. I am happy with the upcoming Kassadin rework 8). I think Akali should be placed behind Talon at the very least, I agree her power spike is ridiculously high because I just had a mid matchup with Akali earlier on using Karma. Even though I 3-0-ed her, my keyboard started becoming unresponsive mid game and my inputs were delayed, all it took was a 1-3 for Akali to snowball real hard throughout the rest of the game, literally even got a godlike mode after that one kill. I've fought AP Mid Lulus, but I don't find her to be daunting. I'm not sure, is AP Mid Lulu meant to be annoying rather than scary? I'd see her as another utility mage who wins teamfight through her abundance of utility rather than her burst. But I could be facing bad Lulus. But it would be nice if Riot decides to encourage AP Mid Lulu, I rather her be an APC than a support.
ReplyDeletethis is not a Brasilian blog.. keep it on english...PLEASE DON'T BE A STEREOTYPE...tks
ReplyDeletewell, i see katarina versus a team that doesn't have any type of cc (such stun or suppressed) and these teams aren't common in this patch.
ReplyDeletein low elo ranked, she work perfectly, but in gold for ahead, even a draven can disable her.
Ya, although it is almost irrelevant what the pros say for this tier list, I do find that Nautilus is painfully slow in the jungle. Also, because he's just a slow moving CC pure tank, he relies BIG TIME on his fellow laners to follow in and do damage in a gank. For these reasons, I find that he's not a good pick for solo queue
ReplyDeleteI agree, pretty easy to dodge everything he does. And if he doesn't get a kill within the first 20 minutes he's in trouble, falls off HARD. Like rofldamnmyfacejustsmashedontheconcrete hard:
ReplyDeleteNo she shouldn't her laning is poor and anyone smart anof to just start building HP counters her.
ReplyDeleteHe isn't banned because he is "OP" he is banned for his strong early game. If you just play passive all laning you win.
ReplyDeleteWell, She's going to get buffed next patch
ReplyDeletead trundle top is surprisingly good in low elo and can basically wreck any melee champion. snowballs really well, too.
ReplyDeleteSoraka top is best Soraka !
ReplyDeleteWhat would you recommend to carry low divisions? Khazix or Elise?
ReplyDeleteYou could say the same thing for lee sin and elise to an extent. He doesnt drop off as hard anymore because of hydra and his early map pressure is arguably the best out of junglers in the game. His jungling early is just absurd right now, I feel he is definetly deserving of tier 1 jungle.
ReplyDeleteElise. I feel Kha'Zix is getting worse due to nerfs.
ReplyDeleteBurst low?!? Low damage? E next to null?!? WTF!
ReplyDeleteWhat makes Diana good IS her burst. You need to check your information. It's incredible.
Low damage only during early game pre-6, her E is not that mana heavy (you're not spamming it...), and WTF! The weakest shield? Whoah whoah whoah. Let me explain.
Her shield is to make her more durable than assassins (have you seen their health?) while dealing damage. It's great for jungle and great for procing spell shield or banshee's veil.
Her E is her CC, which helps you secure kills and interrupt channels. You should never be spamming it.
Clearly you need to research her base stats, passive, and abilities.
Not to mention she counters most assassins and mids alike, and popular champions such as Yasuo, Katarina, and Fizz.
You stopped me at low elo.
ReplyDeleteDoing some research, and considering his base style is anti-tank while being tanky and not for damage, and looking at his Bronze and Silver win rates on lolking, you're "surprisingly" wrong.
I have yet to see an AD Trundle in my realm of Silver.
I agree with everything, but let me explain what's wrong with Lulu.
ReplyDeleteShe's got broken AP ratios, scaling, and fantastic syngery with teams. She's more of a person who can do good no matter what her team is.
I was talking laning. For jungle I don't think he deserves any higher then tier 2. If he didn't fall off late he would be higher for mid or top lane. He feels like a situational pick to me. With very little CC he can't secure kills very well unless they are pushed or the laner has allot of CC. Also the general job of a jungler is to give the lanes an advantage by either giving the laner the kill or taking it and using that power to help all lanes. panth has a great ks kit and if he doesn't steal the kills he falls off, I don't understand why you would play panth when kha pretty much does his job except better and doesn't fall off.. Lee Sin doesn't fall off as hard because of his utility and high potential and Elise doesn't fall off as hard because of her percent damage.( they both also have way more mobility and longer CC)
ReplyDeleteShocking, right? I'm going to have to try it.
ReplyDeleteI would say save up for Vi or Wukong. If you're low in elo because khazix and elise require top lane or support to actually have a brain and go a tank.
ReplyDeleteI've been recently curious about the trinkets. I don't understand why you would ever take the blue or red one. I can understand the red one for a support but, that's the only time it's even viable. I think it is kinda derps to get it in the jungle because allot of the time people will ward in weird places that still give them sight. I would just much rather have better dragon control and just wait till their temp ward runs out. Opinions? I really want to know why people even bother with the red one.
ReplyDeleteokay the blue is just bad, no one can defend that, I agree with you there.
ReplyDeleteRed on the other hand has an interesting characteristic many people forget about,
it disables wards.
What does that mean?
It means that as a jungler you can use the red trinket (sweeping lens) to disable the wards as you come in so that the laner doesn't see their ward disappear and they don't see you come in. It's like a free stealth gank. The trick is knowing where the ward is to use the trinket while it can't see you but you can still disable it.
Considering that trundle is usually played as a tanky jungle, the win rates don't say much about his capabilities as AD top.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he can basically sustain himself with his passive and outduel anyone thanks to his ult, attack speed buffs, and slows makes him a very viable top laner.
With that in mind, he can snowball and, like other snowball champions, is good in low elo and can very well carry a team.
I don't see why you cared to comment when you didn't even see an AD Trundle before
Trundle is usually played as a tanky jungler, so the win rates don't say much about his capabilities as AD top.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he can sustain himself with his passive and can basically outduel any melee champion thanks to his ult, attack speed buffs, and slows makes him a very viable top laner.
With that in mind, he snowballs really well and, like any other snowball champions, is good in low elo and can very well carry a team.
I don't see why you would comment when you didn't even see an AD Trundle before.
...
ReplyDeleteWhen I mean by that, I mean see a good one.
1. Win rates say a lot, sir.
2. WTF. He's doesn't outduel everyone. His ult is for tanks you idiot. You don't just use your ult on everyone. He outduels TANKS. He's called an ANTI-TANK.
3. He's countered by Teemo, Jax, Pantheon, Kayle, Fiora, SONA, Jayce, Cass. The list goes on and on.
4. Viable? Sure. There's no argument there.
I personally think Vel'Koz's ult is OP.
ReplyDeleteWhere is adc Jayce?
ReplyDeleteI've had moderate success with the Red Trinket on junglers. I generally take it when I feel having the early Yellow Trinket isn't really necessary, such as when I don't expect to be counterjungled at all early game.
ReplyDeleteWhen trying to carry matches, I have a general set of criteria I use to judge champions by:
ReplyDeleteDoes the champion have a decent laning phase/capacity to clear the jungle & gank efficiently?
Does the champion have decent teamfighting potential?
Does the champion have any form of hard CC?
Does the champion leave little room for player error? (example: few skillshots > many)
Does the champion have any means of escape/survivability?
Not that every good champion necessarily fits all of the above criteria, but it's a pretty solid set of attributes to look for in a champion.
Going to make the assumption here that you're trying to carry from the jungle, given the champions you're deciding between. I would highly recommend Hecarim (he's really not too bad right now), Jarvan IV and Nocturne. As far as Kha'Zix and Elise are concerned, I'm not a huge fan of assassins in solo queue, just because you can get blown up and focused so easily in teamfights without a good initiate (which I hardly ever get in solo queue). I like Elise quite a bit, but you need to be ready to take the time to practice her a bit, as she's a bit more complex than most other champions.
tl;dr: Elise > Kha'Zix for solo queue, but Hecarim, Jarvan IV, and Nocturne come even more highly recommended.
Zyra is OP with the new Frostqueen, she does so much damage.
ReplyDeleteCan you explain to me why Lee Sin is so high on the list? And is a good champ to carry at low elo?
ReplyDeleteI think irelia deserves a higher spot. She fits well into the current meta and has much less counters now. I also think rengar is tier 2 at most in the jungle
ReplyDeleteWorse version of kat's ult.
ReplyDeleteIt buffed all supports.
ReplyDeleteNot viable. It's what happens when top lane is forced to adc.
ReplyDeleteStrong early and high potential kit. Also has lots of versatility in his build and jungle play style. He can single target nuke with his Q-R-Q-W+E combo.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I sort of agree with rengar, you have to admit a fed rengar can happen fast and carry hard. As for Irelia she still has MANY counters including any tank and most melee top laners.
ReplyDeleteWait so red trinket is really only taken when their is no risk you will be counter jungled? Later in the game it's completely useless when the upgraded yellow turns into a free perma pink ward that is fantastic for baits. I just think the red and blue trinkets need a good buff or the yellow needs a nerf. Overall, riot kinda flopped with this one. Most games i play in solo que everyone is running yellow threw out the whole game.
ReplyDeleteReds I feel are mostly usefull for early dragon control, if you just clear the pit every few mins it means that you can hav a lot of pressure early . They do work with ganks given that of the laner isnt paying attentionthey disable wards and allow for a free gank but youre very right in that laners can ward in weird places. I think at that point you either need to be actually watching the lane which generally works.blues suck though
ReplyDeleteBan rates cause he either feeds or carries and no one can be stuffed dealing with either
ReplyDeleteYou're dumb. He can actually can ult anyone and along with his Q it cripples anyone melee he duels.
ReplyDeleteTrundle beats Jax, Fiora, Jayce and probably more of the people you have on your endless list. You seem like a retard.
Totally doesn't it's fact that they woop him pre 6 and after 6.
ReplyDeleteI feel he is for those games when their lanes have no escapes. If they have a fizz, kha, etc he will be pointless unless you plan on flashing every gank.
ReplyDeleteStill win rate is lower then 50% and he lacks an escape. His laning is ok but, very skill dependent.
ReplyDeleteOnly one of the three that I could see beating him is Fiora and Jayce, Trundle shits all over jax.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't Mordekaiser top be much higher? I mean, this is just me, but after seeing him used to great effect by the EU team Roccat and his kit is extremely efficient against the tanky top lane right now, I feel he should be at least bottom tier 1. He gains free armor and magic resist from his Creeping Death, gains a shield from his siphon, and his Ultimate used on a tank in team fights renders the said tank useless. He can deal 1.7% magic damage base per second and a total base 34% of target's maximum health at max rank. That takes away the "tank" factor completely.
ReplyDeleteMorgana is huge as support she should at least be tier 1 if not god tier
ReplyDeleteAnd counter Blitz and Thesh too, since her shield is ridiculous OP.
ReplyDeleteWTF
ReplyDeleteJax ults after Trundle Subjugates
You're saying a person who is an absolutely incredible 1v1 and is known for that, dies to a Trundle...
Where is your proof? Here's mine.
http://www.lolcounter.com/champ/trundle
http://www.lolking.net/champions/trundle
Amumu is an excellent option as well.
ReplyDeleteLol, useless? His dmg is huge with his E passive plus that annoying spear spam.
ReplyDeleteNO
ReplyDeleteJust no.
I'll start with her lack of heal, how her kit was made for damage, how she gets destroyed by most ADCs or even Janna, her low mobility, how easy it is to dodge her snare, and how she falls off early game.
Tier 3 is the way to go.
Agree except for your first argument. It's solo queue, not team comp.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree he has tons of damage and is great at 1v1ing people, he's vulnerable to ganks and when his passive isn't up, and early game he's squishy. While late game he's a beast, until then he lacks natural CC and escapes...
yes, but as Twiddle pointed out i said top lane. Her ability to shutdown melee bruisers is second to none due to her passive making up for her lack of attack speed, her blind making melee attacks useless and her vault giving her distance once they close the gap. full damage build with some tank such as Botrk, black cleaver, lw, frozen mallet and ga means she can easy take the role of an adc in a teamfight and also dive enemies for ridiculous executes once needed. still think she is underrated toplane
ReplyDeletewould agree here, maybe tier 2 or low tier 1. her snare is amongst (if not the longest?) in the game and has decent base damage, her shield makes her adc ignore cc (what!) and also absorb magic damage and her ult can be teamfight changing especially due to the fact enemies tend to care less about the second half of her ult as support so there is a second aoe snare. i agree, she is a great support.
ReplyDeleteevelynn should be god tier jungler :)
ReplyDeleteI'd recommend taking another look at ap tristana mid think it deserves much more then tier 4 mid
ReplyDeleteDepends on what you mean.
ReplyDeleteAs a backline ADC, he's definitely not too good. ADCs, generally, contribute sustained AD damage to a team, and generally do most of their damage through autoattacks. Jayce has a pretty low AA range in cannon form, and can't do as much damage through them compared to many other ADCs. He has a bit of self-peel, but they're other ADCs which do it much better, like Tristana. As an ADC, he's almost completely outclassed by other picks, and isn't really a great choice.
Of course, that's for an ADC build and playstyle. If you build and play him the same as you normally play Jayce, expect a stronger midgame and the capacity to win mid-game fairly easily, so long as the enemy ADC isn't much of a threat. Of course, without an ADC, your team can't expect a win late-game if the other team is protecting their carry sufficiently.
tl;dr: Jayce isn't an ADC, and shouldn't be played as one.
Don't forget that you can sell/purchase trinkets throughout the game. What you start with is only what you're stuck with until your first recall, if you want. I find I can generally make room for a Stealth Ward on my first recall if I still want to hold onto my Red Trinket, which I generally do. Having that ability to deny wards throughout the map and create pressure is more useful on the Trinket than warding through it, IMO. Buying Stealth Wards after my first back generally isn't a problem, and I can maintain vision around the map without really needing the Yellow Trinket, and the Red Trinket, at least in my experience, really can help with ganking.
ReplyDeleteNasus received the following nerfs over the past few months: passive lifesteal, wither range, bonus spell ranges from ult, 10% cdr from SV, perseverance mastery, dorans shield. He has averaged less than a 49% winrate in ranked over the past 2 weeks. The lifesteal, mastery, and dorans shield changes make his laning much more difficult though not impossible. The wither nerfs neuter his teamfight prowess substantially and essentially relegate him to a kiteable damage soak against competent players. As someone that mained Nasus for over 4 years, I'm of the opinion that he is dropped to T1 top laner at best, and his popularity will continue to drop off rapidly. I'd understand your reluctance to move him at this point, but you'll wind up doing so on the next tier list once popular opinion inevitably sways towards the fact that Nasus is simply no longer very effective at carrying games.
ReplyDeleteIf you build him tank he provides nothing more than short stun and doe ignorable dmg. If you build him glass cannon or bruiser, he does nothing in teamfights because the second he goes in to do is combo he is instakilled. Even if he does get his combo in, it usually will not kill even a squishy late game LOL
ReplyDeleteI was wondering why you don't have Vel'Koz any higher? maybe people just haven't figured him out yet, but as an average player before, Vel'Koz has really upped my game to a new level. I always finish either first or second in minion kills, have yet to have a negative k/d, and I always end up 2 or 3 levels ahead of everyone else from minion and tower kills, since very few champions have been able to mid against me without numerous returns to heal, or deaths because they hung around too long
ReplyDeletenote, minion kills might not seem that important, but usually if a game goes long enough to get to level 18, I have a completely full kit built, which puts my AP around 600 and makes me huge in a team fight. With the kit I build, I also get an extra 300 health and 50 armor, so while still a glass cannon, at least I can't be 1-shotted, and since I hang near the back (like a good glass cannon mage should) most enemies either don't get to me, or if they do are immediately jumped by my team while I kite away throwing Q's and W's behind me
ReplyDeleteThe Underline means he hasn't seen a to judge him. IMO he will end up around the bottom of tier 1.
ReplyDeleteBuild, runes and masteries for top Soraka? I know it's tank late game but, what else? ad or ap? who does it counter?
ReplyDeletethat seems fair to me. He is fairly difficult to use with all his skills being skillshots, but he can get insane range on his Q, his W is about as good at clearing minion waves as anyone, and if u get caught with his E, a Q, W, and and ult if it's up are immediately coming ur way, making you either dead, or at the least in a ton of pain
ReplyDeleteIt's early game is good but, after that it's useless. Unless she has like 5 kills before 20 min you lose.
ReplyDeleteNerfs hit her too hard. Her easy first blood trick no longer works.
ReplyDeleteTrinket system is broken. Blue = "Worthless". Red = "Risky, people can ward slightly away from where you expected and now you've wasted red, why didn't you just get a green"? Green = "Safe and gives sight". It really needs to be revamped, right now its silly
ReplyDeleteCan't uderstand why Mundo is not in the God Tier anymore, he's such a great top laner... he will also help the team a looot in the tf, and when your jungler decides to gank your lane, you will pretty much gonna get a kill or your jungler... For me and I know that for probably 90% of main tops, Mundo should be in the god tier. (Sorry for the bad grammar, not my home lenguage)
ReplyDeleteHe means Quinn TOP LANE, and y im the same opinion, quinn top is rly strong (but in this meta we Need tanks at op uhh *_* :( )
ReplyDeletefor the current meta game what would you reccomend. Malzahar or Brand?
ReplyDeleteIMO Brand if you are better then your elo and malzahar if you're not.
ReplyDeleteAnd...
ReplyDeleteCan't you read or something?
ReplyDeleteSurprise, Trundle is also an absolutely incredible 1v1 and his AA is his main source of damage.
ReplyDeleteQ: Steals AD
W: Attack speed buff and regen buff
R: Steals health and armor
Trundle can basically steal Jax's ult buffs with his own ult.
Rushing BotRK on Trundle is a good idea since it gives him everything he needs: AD, life steal, and attack speed.
I can tell you from my own personal experience that Trundle indeed shits all over Jax.
He is countered by strong burst range champions, such as Kayle.
c'mon viktor,I'll put you in tier 1
ReplyDeletemy secret weapon!
Yeah. You have an opinion from a diamond 1 person you asked in streaming without showing proof, and it's 1 person. Anything else?
ReplyDeleteI see no proof still.
ReplyDeleteJax benefits from BotRK more than Trundle, Jax's ult also counters Trundle's ult (didn't we go over this already), and you just supported my item by saying his AA is his main source of damage. That's what makes Jax GOOD. His E! His Q! He freakin AAs faster than Trundle, no surprise there.
Did I mention his push?
No real escape, only 1 cc with a long cd compared to lee's and elise's. Comparing Panth to Kha and Lee is unfair because he COUNTERS them. There are much more viable and popular champions that counter HIM, such as Jarvan IV, Olaf, and ESPECIALLY Udyr.
ReplyDeleteI agree he counters Lee and Kha, but that's pretty much it.
Indirect nerfs to sunfire and spirit visage hurt his snowballing.
ReplyDeleteThank you for typing up something that I did not even bother typing! :)
ReplyDeleteThank you for repeating @Max Hospadaruk's comment, and really he doesn't, you're just looking at him in a 1v1 perspective. In a 5v5, Pantheon is pretty useless.
ReplyDeleteBrand, hes aoe is useful for any team.
ReplyDeleteI guess you won't see until you actually see this match-up first hand.
ReplyDeleteThanks DogeyDoge! I am currently using Wukong in jungle and have won 4 games in a row with him.
ReplyDeleteI think Sona- ADC is very strong, why not tier 3?
ReplyDeleteI think Thresh adc deserves a place, even if it's tier 3.
ReplyDeleteFirst off i'm not even gonna respond to the guy under you. Second off thresh got his aa range reduced taking all hope of a chance at thresh adc. Adc blitzcrank is more viable and it's not viable, at all.
ReplyDeleteWell I don't know why...Her passive is very strong and all the games I played with her i won.
ReplyDeleteWell yeah, but he's still very hard to kill and his snowballing is still veryyyy good
ReplyDeleteWhat about Morgana support?
ReplyDeleteLeonardo you're drunk, go home.
ReplyDeleteTop for tier 3. Shield is great but, lacks reliable damage pre 6.
ReplyDeleteHe is a great pick but, could you say he is better then Wukong ,Nasus, Renekton, Jax, Kayle, Yasuo or Shyvana? They all can carry and snowball allot harder then a mundo. Mundo is still a very good, safe top lane pick.
ReplyDeleteIts not unfair if youre comparing what they do better. Jungle match up are essentially, can the champ duel the other champ or more importantly stop what the other champ is doing, Olaf, J4, Udyr, Lee, Elise and kha cannot stop his ult if hes using it correctly. Kha does more damage but has no hard cc and his slow is extremely unreliable at early levels and his global presence is trash compared to panth. 9 times out of 10 youre not going to be able to use your cc more than once in a gank. General rule is if its above 10 seconds you get one shot, which is exactly why reliable cc is far better.
ReplyDeleteI feel like you could say that for every jungler. Generally if a fizz or a kha does not use their escape before you gank they are going to get away. Its jsut the trade off those champs have, if they dont use their escape to deal damage or engage then they suffer a really big kill potential loss.
ReplyDeleteMaybe mid Tier 1. I think the Botrk build floating around is actually really good but so much of her burst is just gone. Nerfs pretty much made her previous build trash but shes still got potential to be good and she still snowballs very hard.
ReplyDeleteI am confused about her placing because she really is a coutnerpick. She's extremely good against certain matchups and with certain adcs but with others its just horrendous. Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual seems pretty accurate to me but her power feels very similair to a lot of high tier 1 champs in her good matchups.
ReplyDeleteDogeyDoge is spot on but god no hes awful at low Elo. Hes the same thing as elise, he doesnt carry he snowballs lanes and him getting a shit ton of kills isnt an instant win like on some other junglers. Better to go someone who can jsut walk into team fights and win like Hecarim, youll find it easy to abuse a lot of mistakes at low elo with him.
ReplyDelete^This. seriously if youre anywhere less than Silver III you can pretty much win every game with amumu because no one knows how to close a game.
ReplyDeleteI feel like shes hidden ok or something. like hidden op but just ok. She looks bad on paper but she always does better than i expect its really quite strange
ReplyDeletecan we jsut all stop playing quinn pls
ReplyDeleteAs a matter of fact, I have, and it's been my whole argument this whole damn time.
ReplyDeleteI think nocturne top should be added to this. He is a pretty good duelist with his fear and ability to block spells. His ult allows for good follow up on ganks and his only problem is his mana, which isn't too bad if you ration his abilities.
ReplyDeleteNocturne pushes waves very hard innately, leaving himself open to jungle pressure. The changes to his fear don't really help his dueling either.
ReplyDeleteBut, he might be a little stronger as a top lane than I had thought before. Also curious to see how he fairs mid-lane, since his roaming with his ult would be pretty insane. Will go ahead and try these out, but I'm not expecting to find them any stronger than Tier 3.
A Rammus can catch them. Another khazix can catch them. A wukong can catch them. An Amumu can catch them. Now those champs don't have as good of ganks but, they are all usefull late game unlike Pantheon.
ReplyDeleteMorgana still not higher up for the support role? Even with the new spellthiefs line?
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I meant someone who actually knows how to play trundle
ReplyDeleteThe new spellthiefs helped all supports. Also, her damage is too unreliable and if she maxes E she does no damage if she maxes W or Q her spell shield is worthless. Her damage pre-6 is very unreliable. She is OK on paper but, terrible in practice.
ReplyDeleteWhy did you put Nami into a tier 2 support list? I think she deserves to be in tear 1-she has low CDR heal-poke, great AoE stun (If she lands double-bubble in teamfights, it's over- maybe a little bit harder to land), nice buff and great ultimate for chasing down enemies and her passive can be really useful!!!
ReplyDeleteShe is maybe a little bit harder to master, but as Nami main, I got really sad when I've seen she got into a tier 2 list. :(
... My answer doesn't change, much like your unwillingness to show proof.
ReplyDeleteIf you like proof so much, then I guess you also have trouble with this tier list, since I see no proof.
ReplyDeleteFor the counter sites, they are completely reliant on player votes, and is not solid proof.
http://www.lolcounter.com/champ/trundle
In the above link, which you posted before as your "proof" in this conversation, Jax shows up in both the "Bad against" and the "Good against" lists. I guess I can use your proof as mine also, if you want one so badly.
To be honest, a Jax vs Trundle is one of the more skill-based match-ups.They are both reliant on AA. You mentioned that Jax AA's faster than Trundle, but when Trundle uses his W, it's the other way around. And their ults counter each other.
Furthermore, as I aforementioned, win rates do not mean a thing, as they do not show the exact win rates for an AD Trundle top.
I understand that you disagree with my point of view, and that's completely fine with me. You have watched Jax wreck Trundle, and I have watched Trundle wreck Jax. There is no way to settle this argument, so please refrain from continuing, as I grow tired of this.
What about Thresh ADC? Please put him on here.
ReplyDeleteHis aa range was nerfed and unless riot calls him a "MarksMan" it ain't gonna happen.
ReplyDeleteHave any of you tried wukong support ? I have played an upwards of 20 games with him. The level 3 free harass with your E Q W combo plus the level 6 all in make him devastating at bot lane against squishies such as adc and sona,soraka,annie, even blitzcrank cant expect to pull you and not receive tons of damage. However he is not a traditional support so your teammates might flame you but when you shut down their bot lane and they have an underfed adc and support wukong can usually 1 v 2 them all day long.
ReplyDeletethis is more of a kill lane rather than being a support, but wukong is not fit for support anyway you put it first of all hes melee with no escape and also hes only cc is at lvl 6.
ReplyDeleteHe is not meant for the support lane however his late game potential is too good to pass up. So melee supports are not viable ? Leona, taric , blitzcrank ? Its less about cc and more about harass with wukong as his early game damage with E Q and decoy escape makes most supports waste their cc on it. The damage he deals puts the fear of god into their adc XD
ReplyDeleteI dont expect one person to be able to effectively list all champions of every role, but the support list is just so incorrect (in my opinion). I think you either need to hire a support main to do the list, or just not show it at all. The fact that Morganna is in the same tier as champs like Nunu, Volibear and Gangplank makes me doubt the rest of the list as well.
ReplyDeleteim not saying melee supports are bad but wukong has basically no cc compared to them so if hes caught hes basically dead unless he has flash, also even if he does e its quite obvious that hes used it. But i guess decoy is a good move bot as guys like blitz thresh leona will proberaly blow alot of spells
ReplyDeleteWell wukong mains can pretty much be caught out and still kill their bot lane. Its all about the timing your decoys. You dont always decoy lets say you used your E Q W combo next time just use E Q and press S your character will stop making your opponent beleive your used your decoy thereby they will think its on cooldown when you next attack them. My decoy and any good wukong decoy wastes most of the support's cc. TLDR Never let your enemies figure out when you used decoy
ReplyDeleteEver try a Lux and Morgana bot so much fun :D The lack of adc is offset by the fact that your opponents will be unable to even farm due to the massive range of lux and once 1 snare lands so will the other equating to massive damage to whoever was unlucky enough to get caught
ReplyDeletecan i ask top teemo is ap or ad?
ReplyDeleteWhich role carries most do you think?
ReplyDeletegotta thats a skill you have to develop which makes his skill cap higher. i mained wukong in season 3 and a weakness of pressing s key is that if you have minion aggro on wukong then he decoys it will deactivate the aggro so its obvious if u s or not. And bot lanes usually stay back without minions so attacking them then is also not opitmal
ReplyDeletemainly ap
ReplyDeleteYou make some valid points. First off, I'd like to preface with the fact that I actually am a support main, and feel that Morgana's always been one of those champions that works better on paper simply because her black shield's effectiveness relies heavily on the abilities of your ad carry.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, this last patch she's definitely a lot stronger simply because of the fact that with the Doran Shield nerf, all-in type champions are weaker, and the changes to the blue gold item have mad her extremely strong early on, something she used to suffer with.
When you mention that she's in the same tier as Nunu, Volibear, and Gangplank, it does seem silly. I'll move her up a bit.
what do you think about top hecarim?
ReplyDeleteI think Evelynn should definetly be reconsidered, at least tier 2 in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteMid and jungle obviously got the most impact to the game as long as u are cooperating with other lanes. Mid champs with high cc can easily dominate bot lane with single gank.
ReplyDeleteNice to see Morg and Panth moved up but im still unsure of Leblanc? I agreed with her placement before, whats changed to make her tier 1?
ReplyDeleteAs long as she spends early game farming, she does well, I think it's just a matter of a large percentage of people choosing to try and go for the kill instead.
ReplyDeleteHer clear leaves her at very low hp and her damage is now kinda weak. nerfs hit her too hard.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the move up of Leblanc. One of your main reasons for having Wukong top of the list in both top and jungle is his win rate. Leblanc has the 3rd lowest win rate in the game. Another reason Wukong is high is because of his team fight. Leblanc has none. I don't understand how you can move champs up due to their win rate and then move other champs up who have super low win rate. If the reason her win rate is low is because it's just a matter of a large percentage of people choosing to try and go for the kill instead, then she definitely Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual.
ReplyDeleteNerfed his in-combat speed to land taunts in team fights.
ReplyDeleteI think Caitlyn should be god tier adc
ReplyDeleteHow are Nami and Zyra coming along? And can a support main carry out of low elo?
ReplyDeleteIdk about Zyra and Nami but, a support main can easily carryout of low elo if their adc is at least competent.
ReplyDeleteNot too good. He doesn't outduel top-lanes, his charge can't really be put to use, he pushes waves, etc...
ReplyDeleteNo real place for him, IMO. Hecarim's pretty confined to the jungle overall.
Yay Galio support finally added! I've been maining galio supp for a year now!
ReplyDeleteIs Jayce stronger, and now viable with this buff to Tear of the Goddess?
ReplyDeleteHe was always viable. Still not that strong though.
ReplyDeleteYes, I mean, now he's as viable as he was pre-nerf?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you put every single champion... its just stupid and confusing, why don't you put only champions that are actaully viable like other tier list...
ReplyDeleteI just want know what's Swain tier,Why his not on the list?
ReplyDeleteI feel as if Morgana should be higher up in the support category.
ReplyDeleteshe's not terribly strong. She has good poke, range, and safe laning. But there are other adcs with damage boosts or as steroids. Unless she gets fed early, she will generally have a hard time catching up. -From my experience and what I've heard of others.
ReplyDeleteBecause those people are lazy
ReplyDeleteSwain is on the tier list, if you are ever having trouble finding a champion type CTRL + F and type in their name.
ReplyDeleteMalphite jungle has a very slow clear time in jungle camps, all it takes is one udyr running through your jungle clearing all of your camps in which case you cannot directly out duel him nor chase him down as he is too quick. Udyr is merely an example in this case but malphite is very prone to being counter jungled before level 6 especially.
ReplyDeletethe nerfs to Jayce's gate were very strong and tear alone will not make him a top tier top laner again, over time champion slowly come back to popularity and strength howver, just give it time.
ReplyDeleteany of these champions have the potential to be god tier, this list is designed for the average player jumping into a game with no prior knowledge about the champions. Caitlyn is a very strong adc but she takes a little more skill to play than it does to play god tiers at the moment.
ReplyDeleteall roles can carry equally, if you are a good top laner try running TP to have a more global effect. Just remember it's not kills that carry a game, it's the plays that are made.
ReplyDelete