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SEASON 4 - PATCH 4.7 SOLO QUEUE TIER LIST
SEASON 4 UPDATE
SEASON 4 UPDATE
This List has been updated, and new versions are available via this link
Aloha everyone and welcome to a new rendition of the solo queue tier list, updated for Patch 4.7! This time around we're joined by Braum, a powerful new support with a fairly interesting skillset. I've also taken the liberty to update some of the tier descriptions as per requested.
This week's descriptions of the moves are fairly short since I feel like there were relatively few high profile changes this time around except for the feral flare nerfs. I've also added a few very safe, common high profile mid picks to God Tier, and I don't think they really need much of an explanation why; if you're curious feel free to drop a comment and I'm sure it'll be answered relatively shortly though.
Anyway, check out the full scope of changes below and as always, post your thoughts and concerns in the comment section! Thanks for visiting and adding to the discussion~
Patch 4.7 Summary
Updates:Buffs: Gragas, Jarvan, Lissandra, Malphite, Miss Fortune, Rengar,
Nerfs: Feral Flare, Kassadin, Kha'Zix, Heal
- Added Braum support
- Updated tier descriptions
- Added Syndra Support
- 5/14:
- Moved Rammus up to Tier 1
- Moved Twitch up to Tier 1
- 5/20: Braum moved to God Tier
Use CTRL + F to Search For Champions
God Tier [Exceptionally Strong Choices]:
Mid-Lane Gods: Kayle, Ziggs, Soraka, Nidalee
Jungle Gods: Amumu, Warwick, Wukong, Kha'Zix, Xin Zhao, Vi,
AD Gods: Jinx, Draven, Miss Fortune, Lucian
Top Lane Gods: Jax, Fiora,
Support Gods: Braum, Morgana, Thresh, Leona
Tier 1 [Strong/Preferred Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Kassadin, Orianna, Katarina, Talon, Swain, Karma, Heimerdinger, Anivia, Yasuo, Lux, Morgana, Lulu (AP), Galio, Malzahar, Zed, Leblanc, Ahri, Brand, Syndra, Pantheon, Diana, Fizz, Wukong, Kha'Zix
Jungle: Nocturne, Jarvan IV, Elise, Jax, Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Rammus, Volibear, Shaco, Udyr, Lee Sin, Pantheon, Aatrox, Sejuani, Hecarim, Kayle
AD Carry: Caitlyn, Graves, Ezreal, Twitch, Varus, Tristana, Sivir
Top Lane: Trundle, Kayle, Renekton, Nasus, Ryze, Wukong, Soraka, Shyvana, Singed, Tryndamere, Warwick, Heimerdinger, Yasuo, Darius, Jarvan IV, Teemo, Malphite, Olaf, Aatrox, Yorick, Kennen, Dr. Mundo, Elise, Lee Sin, Udyr, Volibear, Karma, Nidalee
Support: Zyra, Sona, Karma, Nami, Lulu, Taric, Janna, Blitzcrank
Tier 2 [Viable/Balanced Choices]:
Mid-Lane: Twisted Fate, Viktor, Cassiopeia, Akali, Fiora, Annie, Kennen, Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Vel'Koz, Xerath, Zyra, Teemo, Elise, Lissandra, Sion, Ryze, Jayce,
Jungle: Master Yi, Skarner, Tryndamere, Nautilus, Olaf, Zac, Dr. Mundo, Maokai, Nasus, Shyvana, Rengar, Leona, Trundle, Malphite, Gragas, Diana, Zed
AD Carry: Ashe, Corki, Kog'Maw, Vayne, Quinn
Top Lane: Rumble, Riven, Cho'gath, Zac, Xin Zhao, Rengar, Irelia, Pantheon, Viktor, Shen, Poppy, Akali, Quinn, Vi, Swain, Kha'Zix, Vladimir, Garen, Jayce, Lissandra, Zed
Support: Annie, Fiddlesticks, Alistar, Gragas, Soraka
Tier 3 [Needs Higher Skill/Knowledge Than Usual]:
Mid-Lane: Gragas, Karthus, Veigar, Riven, Tristana, Cho'Gath, Fiddlesticks
Jungle: Nunu, Cho'Gath, Shen, Malzahar, Yasuo, Fiora, Riven, Poppy, Darius,
AD Carry: Twisted Fate, Kennen, Urgot
Top Lane: Master Yi, Gangplank, Mordekaiser, Sion, Vayne, Talon, Nunu, Galio
Support: Teemo, Nunu, Volibear, Lux, Nautilus, Nidalee, Zilean, Syndra, Gangplank
Tier 4 [Low Effort to Benefit Ratios]:
Mid-Lane: Kog'maw, Zilean, Janna, Ezreal (AP),
Jungle: Gangplank, Blitzcrank, Alistar
AD Carry:
Top Lane: Urgot
Support: Kayle, Malphite, Orianna, Poppy, Elise, Galio, Shen, Maokai, Yorick, Lissandra, Ashe, Leblanc, Caitlyn
- Champions in BOLD I will talk about shortly
- Champions UNDERLINED may be over/undervalued, but aren't/haven't played enough for me to make a better judgement.
- Within each tier the champions are strongest from left to right, but within a tier each champion's strength is relatively close. This is especially true for Tiers 2 and 3 where these champions are ALL highly playable and player dependent on how strong they are in-game.
Champion Explanations
- Amumu [God Tier Jungle] - A very safe an powerful jungler, the nerfs on feral flare have brought him back into his place as number one in solo queue. Nothing like a nice unavoidable and easily readable ultimate for team synergy.
- Braum [God Support] - His skill set is pretty broken, and he definitely has a presence in lane similar to Leona and Taric when they were at their heights. It's simply far too easy to engage on the enemy team from a range and towerdive them to death, even early on in the 2v2 lane.
- Gragas [Tier 2 Support] - Gragas support is actually very strong as he gets a lot of free stats, and his rework gave him more utility in lane. His teamfighting presence is still a bit weak compared to other supports outside his ultimate, in 2v2 fights he's quite strong.
- Irelia [Tier 2 Top] - She's not quite as bad as some people make her out to be, and is definitely still viable despite being power creeped with her slightly boring skillset.
- Jarvan IV [Tier 1 Jungle] - Jarvan's new buffs this patch have given him a sizable revitalization, and it seems like it's been just enough to put him back on the map based on his current updated win rates.
- Kassadin [Tier 1 Mid] - Despite having being nerfed, this is more of a late move up from the last round of buffs. Can't keep a broken champion down, even with a rework. His ultimate is just always very game-changing in the right circumstances (which encompass a lot.)
- Master Yi [Tier 2 Jungle] - Feral flare nerfs and his kit's not that strong by itself, not much to see, still viable, not ban-worthy.
- Sejuani [Tier 1 Jungle] - Nerfs on feral flare brought her viability back up quickly, much faster than expected.
- Wukong [God Tier Jungle] - Nerfs on feral flare junglers mean that he's slightly stronger now in comparison, as reflected by his once again rising win rate.
- The purpose of this list is for discussion and to provide a starting point for hero selection.
Agree? Disagree? Comment below!
Do you still think twitch belongs it tier 2 IMO he is the best ad carry right now. GJ for getting this list our fast =).
ReplyDeleteHe's probably closer to T1, but as he's still floating a 50% win rate with no escapes I didn't give it much thought.
ReplyDeleteInterested in your thinking behind putting nasus in tier 1 over god tier. I've played alot of top lane and in my experience a well played nasus can defeat some counters, and when a champ doesn't directly counter him it is almost always a win for him. Not disagreeing just wanted to hear your reasoning behind this placement.
ReplyDeletebraum>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thresh and leona times infinity :p
ReplyDeletebut, Warwick and Xin Zhao are OP with feral or wirth out feral? because the nerf's are pretty hard :/
ReplyDeletehow many times in a row have amumu vi and wukong been on jungle god tier now?
ReplyDeleteAny opinions on Taric and Xin Zhao?
ReplyDeleteHow can Rammus have dropped from God tier a few patches ago to T2? Since then the meta has shifted in a more favorable direction towards Rammus. Not only are AD comps more prevalent but the likelihood of jungling against an auto-attack jungler has gone through the roof. My win rate has gone up with Rammus in the last few patches due to this. What gives?
ReplyDeletewhy does nidalee bounce from od tier to mid tier 1 so much?
ReplyDeleteMeant to move him back up after feral nerf, thanks for the reminder -
ReplyDeletethx for the update man :P
ReplyDeleteidk i feel like nasus cant carry like a jax and a fiora....i feel like nasus just stays top all game....and for him to be powerful he has to farm but no good player is gonna allow that to happen so therefore..if he doesnt get his farm hes not that good....
ReplyDeleteher pokes hurt.....
ReplyDeleteDifferent meta shifts
ReplyDeletei dont really understand the top lane god tier section. only contains 2 champs and fiora is one of them?
ReplyDeleteOpinions on Syndra guys?
ReplyDeleteKayle Jungler in tier 1 and tier 3? O.o
ReplyDeleteI played Vi alot when she was excellent and peaking...ever since she got nerfed, she's just felt weak, completely dropped her after that. Overall 50% win rate isn't god tier. Her ult isn't that great anymore either because of the extra CD time and the fact that after she gap closes she doesn't bring as much damage as she used to. Any reasoning behind god tier Vi?
ReplyDeleteWhy Zyra has the 2nd highest win rate now? Is it beacuse the mid Zyra?
ReplyDeleteLeblanc only loses because people don't know how to play her and get picks which leads to most players of bronze or silver losing and affecting winrates
ReplyDeleteRight now top lane is not too diverse and there aren't many super dominate top laners also fiora is beastly with a hydra in teamfights and has a 52-52% winrate to back it up
ReplyDeleteRight now they are probs best feral junglers as they use it more for damage and use their other abilities to heal
ReplyDeletewhy is nidalee in god tier? is it because of the anti assassin meta and the heal buff?
ReplyDeleteAfter lvl 6 she becomes a poking machine that can't be killed and can stay long enough range to not die.
ReplyDeleteLeblanc is a high risk, high reward champ who snow balls ridiculously hard if she gets an early kill or two, but also falls off steeply in the late game. She has god tier potential, but has a high skill cap so many bronze/silvers will pick her and feed cuz they can't play her right. Urgot, on the other hand, is a high risk, no reward, you're almost certain to lose champ.
ReplyDeletecuz poppy is kinda a bad champ
ReplyDeleteEven with the nerf to feral flare, it's still a good item on warwick/xin as they can build tanky and still have decent damage output with it. The nerf shattered Yi's viability however because building tanky is not an option for him and now that the healing part of flare doesn't scale, Yi's sustain in fights dropped significantly.
ReplyDeletetwitch tier 2 ??? lol
ReplyDeletewhy did zed moved up from tier 2 to tier 1?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, where have you been the last 5 patches?
ReplyDeleteI shouldn't have to reply to this...
Because FF was just nerfed and that was pretty much what made her good the last 2 patches...
ReplyDeleteHey SSJSuntastic, you put Kayle jungle tier 1 and tier 3. haha
ReplyDeleteto be far she wasnt that op with it in the first place
ReplyDeleteI think Kha'Zix shouldn't in Jungle God tier since this patch,because he need to waste more time to kill the creeps
ReplyDeleteWhat about Ashe? I thought that Braum tier 1 would give her a free pass to tier 1 :/
ReplyDeleteNo she wasn't I will give you she has a High-skill cap which may lead to a low win-rate. (like lee sin and quite a few others). She was nerfed hard but it only hurt her early game to the point where she can't do things she could've with buffs
ReplyDeleteDo. Not. Underestimate Poppy. Ever.
ReplyDeletein the right hands sure but you could also say never underestimate teemo jungle (fun as hell btw)
ReplyDeleteI still have fun breaking out Jungle Malzahar and Leblanc :)
ReplyDeleteHow about Rumble at the moment I think he is making a comeback. Maybe even a tier-1 worthy champion
ReplyDeleteJungle Malzahar is just pure simple fun. but he dont compare to Teemo running straight from his blue to the enemy red and just waiting in stealth to smite steal and get first blood. so fun
ReplyDeletelol I do that with leblanc with the mobility and damage at 6 its easy to steal buffs. :)
ReplyDeleteI like both, think both are incredible. My opinion :)
ReplyDeleteyeah but at level 2 it shuts down so many junglers if u get that red and kill them
ReplyDeleteand taric dont forget about taric
ReplyDeletei was confused with twitch and quinn both being in that tier but they tend to be of the neesh picks for adc as apposed the the others still they should be tier 1
ReplyDeleteshe always been the best counter attack support with her ult so maybe its because of people playing the FF junglers who on average tend to be dive based so her ult will cause more plays to happen. Thats just a theory though.
ReplyDeletejungle, suport and top teemo on hit with blade of the ruined king, runaans and the rest tank is broken
ReplyDeleteWhat about Kassadin top?
ReplyDeleteThe stealth itself is a good escape as you can just run into a bush and speed away.
ReplyDeleteYou mean niche?
ReplyDeleteSupport Gragas is listed in both Tier 2 and Tier 3
ReplyDeletei really like what you've done to change the names of the tiers. "low effort to benefit ratio" is a very appropriate description : )
ReplyDeletefixxed
ReplyDeleteGragas Support in Tier2 and Tier3?! Pls fix this :)
ReplyDeleteBrand isn't listed as a jungler. Can we rectify that?
ReplyDeleteI completely agree.
ReplyDeleteHe has cc and his clear really isn't that bad.
Not to mention that he's an ap jungler rather an ad, which can be a huge plus.
don't let them know.
ReplyDeleteShhhh
?jj
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of mushrooms do you take to come here with such ideas?
ReplyDeleteWell how you would see that to happen?
ReplyDeleteAbout Braum like SSJ said "likely stronger yet once people get the hang of the full scope of his skills" which means what it mean and from source of main support players which i often spectate from EUW or NA they all had mostly the same reaction with Braum. its like a Thresh or Leona if your ADC do not synergize with your actions then you will be doing like 2v1 so the skillset is very oriented for agressive playstyle which bring CC and Def Stats but it force your positioning like glue to the enemie and if your adc who ever he is isn't following you are going to force a flash or fall.
I have a question about nidalee
ReplyDeleteYa her high skill cap definitely hurts her win-rate...she's got one of the worst win-rates for good reason. That's the beauty of win-rate, it really tells you where a champion is at. If elise had a significant nerf to her early game, and she's an early game champion that falls off pretty good late and has very little team fight and her win rate plummeted, I dont think tier 1 is right. She's more balanced, so like tier 2 middle of it or something
ReplyDeleteIs someone holding a gun to your head telling you to reply? Chill out, god forbid someone has a different opinion backed up with some reasoning.....anyways if it's been their for 5 patches that doesn't necessarily mean its right. Her win-rate is crap. And if you don't die to her in laning she's been effectively shut down. As to what jobriq had said, this tier list reflects bronze silver and gold the most. High elo play carries less weight. That being said, potential is hard to measure. By looking at a champion's overall win-rate you get a very good sense of how good they are. High skill-cap, VERY low win-rate, enough said.
ReplyDeleteThat's not "affecting win-rates" that's making them lol SSJ has stated many times that this tier list is bronze-silver-gold dominated because that's where the vast majority of players are at. A high-risk high-reward champion that has a 45% win-rate (that's even including the high elo people) is more like a VERY-high-risk moderate-reward champion.
ReplyDeleteLOL
ReplyDeleteGo for it
ReplyDeleteya she had a huge nerf to her early game but also she had a great buff to her mid-late game. just max your e after q and use a CDR-Tank build on her and she'll be in the god-tier.
ReplyDeleteHe is an antimage so his place is mid lane. maybe he can be usefull against some AP top laners.
ReplyDeleteI've only tried it once, but from my experiences reading about it and watching other people play it, I would probably place it at the bottom of Tier 3.
ReplyDeleteHis clear is surprisingly strong, and his ganks can be good (they rely entirely on him managing to hit his Q, though), but he can be put behind fairly easily, and in the current jungle meta that's a hefty risk to take. He doesn't offer anything outside of his damage output, so he really needs to be keeping pace with the rest of the champions in the game. He's a bit teamcomp reliant as well, and it's hard to justify picking Brand jungle without a team that caters heavily to his strength as an AOE burst champ.
How to carry as Nidalee: throw lots of spears, run away when the enemy team gets close, and cougar form burst people when they're alone.
ReplyDeletei've seen twitch in a few pro games, to me he sems to be very viable, so, why tier 2?
ReplyDeleteAnd Kog'Maw? I know he does'nt have a scape and depends a lot from a good early game/ strong CC to save him, but his mid game damage is like a vayne or a draven, and since theres no mana cost on W, you can farm as safe as you want and appear in the first TF like a monster
And please, why only Fiora and Jax on god? i mean, Jax i understand, but why Fiora? A Trundle or a Kayle can win trades against her, and her early game isn't one off the strongests..
I really guessed tath with Braum we would see a "strong cc Meta". The rise off champions like Malphite ( he recived a buff didn't he?) Oriana, Amumu (bye bye FF) Galio, Rumble, J4 etc...
ReplyDeleteAnd ADC's with strong ults or strong utility, like MF, Jinx, Varus Ashe and Graves.
Only Teemo's
ReplyDeleteXin's overall powerful kit means that even with the FF buffs he still stays God Tier, with a knockup, aoe slow and a huge aoe knockback his ganks and teamfights are devastating with or without FF, however he is hurt more than most if focused and shut down early because of the FF, not to mention if he isn't building enough tank stats or life steal he just gets bursted instantly. But with a fast clear time and thanks to FF powerful at all stages of the game he is definitely God Tier.
ReplyDeleteTaric's fallen out of favor because of meta shifts and nerfs, with only one CC that's a pretty lackluster single target stun and a decent at best heal he's far outclassed in both CC and utility, however he has some powerful auras in his W and R so if he gets to teamfight stage with a decent amount of defencive stats and levels he can prove deadly, but its pretty difficult to get him there now
Nasus really needs to be more observant than Jax or Fiora do in all stages of the game. Jax has the last dodge in the game and with that an aoe Stun and its stupidly easy to get him rolling. Fiora has stupid burst thanks to most of her counters now being nerfed and can ignore towers with her ult. Nasus however really has to be careful on who he q's as picking the wrong target can cost a teamates life and with no burst outside of his e armour shred-q he lacks both the high damage of Fiora and the just all round stupidness of Jax.
ReplyDeleteI've been playing him into rumble and ryze every time I see them and it's working really well. I'd say its tier 2 as a situational pick.
ReplyDeletei guess its fixed?
ReplyDeleteidk.she has a 61% win rate with athenes (a mid rush item) and i have a friend who mained her to d1 last seaon by only playing her mid and he made zyra mid look op as fuck. shes very similar to orianna as in a utility mage with high damage and people never see it coming. zyra mid may well be a hidden gem in solo queu.
ReplyDeleteZed is Finally Tier 1
ReplyDeleteWhere are you now, Mr Spade? :)
He said he went to do his own tier list but in a different language.
ReplyDeletei completly agree that vi is overrated and shouldnt be god tier.
ReplyDeleteYes im into a project which will see the light hopefully before or for the next patch!
ReplyDeleteI will let people know and the aspect of the Tier List will be completly different of this one & in different language.
As i said and about Zed and my statement will keep being the same in good hands Zed is for sure Tier 1 or even God Tier in extreme cases. despite that this Tier list is for general hands which mean from Bronze to Platine lets say and so in general i disagree for this placement only because of that.
True, but she WAS tier 1/tier 2.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to reply to both of your comments at once.
ReplyDelete1. This argument has been going on for 5 patches, THAT'S why I've cared about it. Her win rate doesn't show anything about her late game potential and her overall damage if pulled off. Falls off? WTF!
Again, wasn't it you and a billion other people talking about how win rates don't matter all the time? It certainly doesn't in this situation. I've always agreed that this tier list is made for bronze, silver, and gold, but you just gave me a win rate of 45%?!? THAT'S HER PVP WIN RATE!
Her actual win rates are as follows:
Bronze: 46%. Silver: 46%. Gold: 48/49% (it constantly switches).
THAT'S NOT A LOW WIN RATE
Next, her potential is certainly not hard to measure. Just spectate the bajillion games of LeBlanc and watch what happens late game. Falls off my ass. Gold skill is the sufficient skill to come back from 0/7, last time I checked.
Again, 45% win rate is judging her PvP win rate (which has nothing to do with solo queue, especially with the introduction of team builder, which is probably kicking up to about 1/3 of that win rate, which is also based on team comp, as well as the fact that DIAMOND AND PLATINUM PLAYERS PLAY PVP), and the fact that she's been up here for Tier 1 for MONTHS, and you now decide to say, "Fuck this, I'm ignorant."
Or was that not the argument you gave me?
If I judged a champion purely by skill and win rate, I would have thought Orianna and Zed were TERRIBLE according to their Bronze and Silver Win rates respectively.
But no, you forgot about gold.
And that is where you're wrong.
Could you elaborate on Kayle jungle going from t3 to t1 in this patch plz?
ReplyDeleteWhile your statement is correct, and I do want him on this list, this list is based on Bronze, Silver, and Gold, not Diamond.
ReplyDeleteI believe Twitch should be Tier 1, and Fiora Tier 2. She's too dependable on a squishy champion being in top lane, or she's countered by most of the popular tops such as Jax and Renekton.
ReplyDeleteHowever, while I can't argue that Kog's Mid game can be a monster w/o farm, his early game and late game both require lots of skill and fall off respectively.
And to be honest, with the new meta of carry supports and aggressive supports w/o heals, a squishy guy like Kog is not welcome.
Fiora's early game is pretty strong. She can outdamage basically everyone. And she is insane once she gets Hydra.
ReplyDeleteWhile she's great in team comps and team builder alike, solo queue is not the place for her. I don't know why SSJ put her to Tier 1 after the FF nerf while it wasn't that large, still took off some of her viability, if not most.
ReplyDeleteNah, not really... I had same thoughts about Fiora. Poor Jax, poor Renekton. Who can really beat her without problems on top are Rammus, Malphite and Nasus.
ReplyDeleteEARLY GAME?!?
ReplyDeleteNo no no no no no no.
If you want to give an argument about outdamaging, no, Jax and Renekton both outdamage her, no surprise there. But her early game is TERRIBLE against popular tops. And while she works with Hydra, good luck getting it with farmers like Jax and Nasus.
She's not good because of her damage and early game, she's good because of her mid game tradeoff and duelist potential!
But no, even then she's still Tier 2 in my eyes. I don't get why Fiora's god either.
Wait, Jax can't beat Renekton?!?
ReplyDeleteHER WHOLE KIT CAN BE DODGED BY JAX'S E!
And if a Renekton can beat Fiora, I want to see that. I've never seen that to this day, and to be honest, he's going to outfarm, outharass, and pretty much just smother her with CC.
Well all I said (wrote) its "IMHO" :-) and maybe I didnt met good Renekton or Jax :-)
ReplyDeleteI usually run her with spectral wraith as jungle item (+80 ap and -10% cdr), aspeed comes from runes and zerker boots / Nashor's Tooth.
ReplyDeleteHey, you still need to take Feral Flare. It still works.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course, Lich Bane is your friend :D
I really think Braum should be moved up, and the fact that they plan on nerfing twitch should show that he deserves to be higher.
ReplyDeleteJax cant beat Renekton? Who said that? And who is going to all-in Jax when his E is ready? O.o
ReplyDeleteI fixed it, it was a typo.
ReplyDeleteAnd Jax is going to E while Fiora's bursting him. He has time to do stuff, you know.
Why is Warwick still that up high? Feral Flare got recently nerfed so I don't understand
ReplyDeleteIt's not the Feral Flare anymore that's making him op, it's awareness and Warwick himself.
ReplyDeleteBut I do agree that God is a bit overestimating, and he should be Tier 1 now.
It was a rework, not really much of a nerf. If anything, his ult is still as good as it's always been.
ReplyDeleteAnd if anything, I wouldn't judge your first game, as he's not so much a pick up and play champion.
tier 2 at best she was relatively balenced incomparison to other jungle then again i didnt play her much in the last month or so, so i dont really have a strong opinion here.
ReplyDeleteon a completely unrealated note id like to turn you attention to the Sejuani's move from tier 3 to tier 1 without any beffs to her as i think that kind of makes my point last patch about her not being underpowered and that she shouldnt have been moved down last patch.
I actually completely disagree with that move, and so do my friends in Gold and Platinum.
ReplyDeleteThere is no way on earth that Sej is tier 1 right now. She's too item dependent, has to have a PERFECT early game, and is relatively weak without Iceborn Gauntlet.
Balanced.
And now that the FF junglers are evaporating (except for WW, Xin, and for some reason, Kayle), she's much more viable, but she's still BALANCED!
There are so many checks and counters from being in that Tier 1.
Back to Poppy, I played her a lot, and she was a MONSTER with FF, but she required Gold skill, so I understand that Bronze and Silver had a hard time.
But not my gold, baby, not my gold.
19/2~8/1 for most of my games is good for me.
But now that FF is here, it's been changed to 11/4~4/4, so I guess it did deck her fast.
Can i just ask what server you play on and how do you play Sejuani cause i think you must be playing her very differently than i am.
ReplyDeleteWait, what? Waste more time? That's dramatizing it, and I don't know where that came from.
ReplyDeleteLet's address the nerf one by one, so you can get how it really changed Kha'Zix:
1. His ult: 1 second to 2 seconds between stealth casts. Not much of a change, and it didn't change his playstyle in any regard.
2. His Q: I'm sure you know the change, but I'll say it anyway: Inhanced his isolation radius and turrets now count as allies. This makes it harder to towerdive and harder to pull someone away from a teamfight.
His burst, his op damage, and clear time are still fantastic anyway.
So how in the world did the nerf affect THAT?!?
Beats me, but my KD hasn't changed from a solid 10 when he's not banned.
NA/EU, I have 2 accounts. The majority of my play is on NA, though.
ReplyDeleteAs for my Sejuani build, when it goes to jungle, I usually follow pro builds created for Gold people such as I or mobafire builds that are liked by the general public. Or builds given by friends and teammates alike. I do the same for top. On any other role I use my own experience and intuition on how to build.
For Sejuani, I use the mobafire build: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/sejuani-freljord-rising-375586
But I edit it in my own way in which I get Iceborn Gauntlet no matter what, as a good Sej always does. And I get Liandry's if I'm fed, which occasionally happens.
Hey SSJ, I'm a gold 2 player and I've been trying nidalee in solo queue w/o much success. In my opinion, nidalee cannot solo carry a game by herself (in solo q) . Which leads me to thinking she only works In premade 4-5. Would you say the same? :/
ReplyDeleteUm... no.
ReplyDeleteI want to see your build and games you've been playing...
Because if anything, she was MADE for solo queue.
I mean, she's just as good in Ranked 5v5s then in Solo Queue, but she was OP in Solo Queue to begin with.
For some you mentioned its true :)
ReplyDeleteImagine Braum with high damage but squishy champs like Draven and Jinx.
ReplyDeleteAll the wins!
I'd say she can carry a solo queue game by herself pretty easily. Make sure you get Athene's and don't just rush deathcap. Also, always insist on having blue even if you have athene's and 40% cdr.
ReplyDeletea world without an ADC thresh, is a world that I do not wish to troll in... here is a link, in case you are actually interested in the not so meta adc: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/pres4-thresh-the-hidden-adc-in-depth-guide-294724
ReplyDeletePlz post it @ trollplz.com
ReplyDeleteLiterally every champ in the game can escape a 1v5.
ReplyDeleteWhile your here might I ask your opinion on rumble :)
ReplyDeleteAre you trollin?
ReplyDeleteT1 is a good place for him. I had the opposite reasoning tho. You moved him down from God Tier to T2 when FF hit the scene and now back up to T1 after FF got nerfed.
ReplyDeleteMy point was Rammus got way stronger in SoloQ when FF was strong because you had a 99% chance of jungling against an auto-attack jungler. My best win rates with him were when FF was OP...
Its the real issue in SoloQ games and you have put the finger on it.
ReplyDeleteNidalee is weak early and only start to shine mid game...which mean that during this time its mostly farming...
The problem which you pointed at is that IF both team start to focus and regroup the best thing to do with a Nidalee in your side is to let her poke but honestly? i rarely had team mate letting me do that...
lets say 1 or 2 on 10 games which my team thought about doing siege before going full HAM against full hp target often diving :)
So Nidalee is good in SoloQ? Yes she could even be awesome
Can she carry by herself? well...i wouldnt say yes to be honest...
The optimal moment you can pick her is to be sure you got a solid first like that can let you safe... Supports like Thresh Leona even Braum i guess and in term of top or jungle stuff like Renekton Jarvan IV Vi...
Hope i was helpful enough for your thoughts!
I always embraced Rumble! Tell me i will answer honestly but Rumble is a great pick atm :)
ReplyDeleteAbout Jinx right the combo must great but drake its like Hit per second than Jinx for exemple so the combo would be so fast as Jinx for instance.
ReplyDeleteDraven its more the longer the CC the better like Thresh or Morgana.
Imo Lucian & Braum will be seen quiet often and will be as or even more lethal than jinx due to his passive.
Thats just a thought! The future will say!
In my mind & the way i played her several times already she is between God Tier & Tier 1.
ReplyDeleteAs a proof i show what i did with her since the beginning of S4!
She literally is the champion that use her balls to break those of the others!
Fast tip: She counter LeBlanc super hard! i mean we all know how LeBlanc passif is freaking annoying but with Syndra? No more worries about this!
Make sure LeBlanc is about 70-80% lower HP > Proc Death FireGrasp on her and ult it...it goes behind the LeBlanc passif and kaboom :)
Ok, from the top. First: Win-rate is all encompassing, therefore it does include a champion's potential. If all kinds of different people are losing games more than they're winning while playing a champion, the champion isn't as good as you think it is. Second: No that was not me, I always put win-rate above the other variables. Third: Leblanc has an overall ranked solo win-rate of 45.58% across all tiers. Anything below 50% win-rate isn't good, and anything significantly below it is terrible. If I went and spectated her games I'd find her and her team losing roughly 55% of the time. Why would you think a champion who wins less than half the time is good? Don't ignore the numbers! One final piece of advice is to chill out, you're getting way too worked up in the comment section of a tier-list that isn't yours.
ReplyDeleteOK, you gotta be smoking some serious meth dude. I'm not even in this argument and I can just point out a couple things.
ReplyDelete(Bronze: 46%. Silver: 46%. Gold: 48/49% (it constantly switches).
THAT'S NOT A LOW WIN RATE)
Yes, it is.
("Fuck this, I'm ignorant.")
He has commented on previous tier lists on both Leblanc and her win rate being a reason for her not to be high.
Also, the entire game is PVP, in solo que if I ask my jungler to please go a CC tank, when he mains Diana and Yi, he won't give a flying fuck. The win rates with and without team builder have very little differences.
I don't believe trundle deserves so high up in tier 1. His kit doesn't have much counter play when against a Jax or Fiora and his carry potential is weak. Don't get me wrong I think trundle is quite viable but, I don't think he is better then Kayle, Nasus or Ryze.
ReplyDeleteBy the sounds of it ur attempting to get kills which on Sej isnt really
ReplyDeleteneeded as badly as you think i always (if i know the adc/mid/top can get
the kill) leave before my w steals the kill even if i did all the work as its far more important to use Sej in a supporty tanky role.
As for build you keep stressing gauntlet as her most important item but i find that more often its an early sunfire cape that can swing the game in her favour allot more that the armor and slow of the gauntlet.
Also im in EU across 4 accounts (granted one is dedicated around urgot top and i still need to level it to 30 one day) so i dont know if it may be a different play style in the NA server that is giving you your impression of Sejuani.
she doesn't carry like most people do, let me explain why nidalee can carry and why it seems like sometimes she can't. Basically as an assassin a full 5 v 5 teamfight is something nidalee wants to avoid, if things get out of hand and your team continually fights losing fights there isn't much you can do. When nidalee's team isn't constantly fighting losing battles its very easy, simply poke anyone from long range and when you chunk half of there team you can take any objective that is safe for the team, just carry by making the enemy team scared of getting chunked. Also i would have soraka banned every game if youre playing nidalee it can be a real pain in the ass.
ReplyDeleteOk sorry for not making my point clear. Firstly Leblanc isn't a VERY-high risk moderate reward champion, she has good damage early and can completely destroy early game so shes not too risky her riskiness comes from being so squishy and dying. Also you say shes moderate reward BUT she can snowball really hard and can carry a team by getting picks and assassinating. Second a low winrate champion usually has a low winrate because people don't know how to play them or people know how to counter but it by no means it is implying they are bad and the majority of people who play them are bad. Thresh and Vayne have high pick rates but have low winrates.
ReplyDeleteHey it's all good. While she can snowball hardcore, she can also not...which seems to be more prevalent. And ya that is true, champs with low win-rates are harder to do good with. Positive correlation. However, it is also telling. For the purposes of making a tier-list you've got to be objective. So if we weight win-rate as an important factor (you really have to), that's a big knock on Leblanc. A tier list is a current assessment on how good each champion is in which role.
ReplyDeleteTwitch is EASILY god tier, Jinx should NOT be in god tier.
ReplyDeleteAD teemo instead of AP?
ReplyDeleteI agree with this, as I've never actually had a problem with tops I play a lot (except maybe Renekton and Jax), and even then, I end up winning the late game teamfights.
ReplyDeleteWhen he's isolated, he's really weak.
Any argument you can make for Twitch, you can make for Jinx.
ReplyDeleteThey're both equally good in both carry potential and farming ability, as well as their damage. I believe that the God ADCs should be more like this, if you agree:
Twitch, Draven, Lucian, Jinx
Twtich has invis? Agree with the tier though
ReplyDeleteHer level 1-2 cheese from my experience is enough to win you a lane. She beats pretty much everyone at lv 1 cause of riposte
ReplyDeleteHIs clear is pretty average compared to most ff junglers but everything else he does is just absurd. He doesnt even need items to scale that well, he gets so many free stats its not even funny. Easily still God Tier
ReplyDeletekassadin was in god tier lel
ReplyDeleteyea but twitch lacks any hard cc and jinx's passive, although not reliable, can be used as an effective escape
ReplyDeleteIs she strong? But all you need to do is buy Ninja Tabi and either Chain Vest or Warden's Mail, and boom. She doesn't hurt any more.
ReplyDeleteNow FF stacks with ganks and WW ganks are strong with ulti, so he stack a bit faster, not like afk farmers like Yi
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you that Nidalee can and does those things. I'm talking about the rest of your team in silver/gold. They don't seem to understand how to play with a Nidalee and how she needs to poke dmg down first before your team engages but they like to go in before that anyway. I'm just trying to say, i don't think it's possible to carry as Nidalee in low elo because the team doesn't know how to play with one on the team. What you think?
ReplyDeleteI also agree
ReplyDeleteShe was strong even before the Feral Flare, 'Kayle Bot' used to play her too :)
ReplyDeleteI think that if your team is engaging when the other team hasn't been poked down sufficiently, you haven't been throwing enough spears.
ReplyDeleteAlternatively, mention in chat that in order for your team to get the most out of your poke, you need to delay an engage in favor of poking the other team down a bit. Many players may not have that intuition on their own, but at Silver and up at least they ought to be able to recognize the validity behind such a strategy if you mention it to them.
How my friends and I are building Kassadin these days is focusing on Seraph's Embrace and Rod of Ages as early items. That extra mana really helps his ult be more impactful, and gives him the ability to spam his Q in lane.
ReplyDeleteI believe Kassadin's laning, overall, benefited from the changes. His ability to lock down targets with a silence is the only major nerf that came into his kit, and for me it is what makes him Tier 1 instead of God Tier.
Lich Bane, Rabbadon's Deathcap, Zhonya's Hourglass, and Sorcerer's Shoes are generally the other items I get on Kassadin. It's certainly possible to substitute any of those for more defensive items or magic penetration items if the situation calls for it.
She's decent. I can never decide if I prefer Feral Flare or Spectral Wraith on her, since they both have some important advantages and disadvantages. I would probably say it's game dependant, and you should try and determine after your first back which one you want (Feral Flare if it'll be better to farm the jungle repeatedly, Spectral Wraith if you're going to want to have a stronger influence in the early-mid game).
ReplyDeleteI would say she's Tier 2, but I haven't seen her enough. SSJ's placement of her in Tier 1 could very well be justified.
Since Fiora's kit doesn't really lend too much to player skill, she's more matchup dependent than many other champs. Top-lane in general has a stronger emphasis on good matchups, really.
ReplyDeleteFiora just so happens to win a whole lot of matchups, and once she's ahead in items she has immense potential to carry games through her ult. Ravenous Hydra ups her teamfighting and skirmishing potential by quite a bit, and allows for some seriously destructive damage output.
I understand wath you said, i just don't agree with fiora tier 2 (to me 1 is fine), even though you are skishy, the damage in her ult is cary killing, so she is just like an assassin, build her like a caster ( a lot off AD and armor penetration) and she can kill any adc/apc in a sec. The problem has you said, is that she might not survive till there
ReplyDeleteAnd why Kog' falls off late game?
as i said, no mobility/strong cc, i know, but with a furor+Trinity Force is pretty easy to kill some monstruous bruisers (Hi jax) from out off his gap close range. To me he is more like an "auto atack nidalee". IF your team have a trustble cc, he can hurt a lot in a "safe" zone
Ryze top is god tier atm. He has a ton of favourable match ups and does extremely well against fotm champs like jax and renekton because of his harass. Sure he has no escapes from ganks but don't push and that's basically a non factor. Take teleport, spam as many Qs as possible at levels 1-6, recall early on and as soon as you have a tear + catalyst you start destroying the enemy.
ReplyDeleteGreat will definately have to try him out the next champion I wanna get good at was between him and Irelia and tristana. But as he see rumble countering a lot of the very strong toplaners this is good. Even though I will forever love AP tristana mid.
ReplyDeleteVi is still very good and shouldn't be underestimated in my opinion. If she lands her Q during a gank, you will suffer serious damage or die if flash is on cooldown. Then there are also the double gap closer level 6 gank. She still means serious pain for the laner she is ganking, but she is just less popular than she was previously. The nerfs did not hurt her very much overall though.
ReplyDelete*pffft* Not Cho'gath or Urgot.
ReplyDelete...
ReplyDeleteShe beats a Jax at level 1.
What games have you been playing?!?
I doubt there's a safe zone when you're facing a Draven, Twitch, or a Caitlyn.
ReplyDeleteAnd you can't compare him to Nidalee, as she is already good early game, unlike Kog.
The problem with that item set (though good) is that it's hard to get as most ADCs will outfarm you. And while he's definitely ok at killing bruisers, the same can not be said for most ADCs.
I don't care how you build Fiora, the lane is going to be ****. Considering most of the lane now are tanks or just very tanky bruisers like Jax.
Um... Team builder isn't in ranked solo queue...
ReplyDeleteAnd it's hard to judge her win rate anyway because she's banned most of the time, and the people who don't ban her either can handle her VERY well, or are noobs, and for most of the time it's the former.
First: She's banned 3/5 games, so it's hard to judge her anyway. And if win rate is so "all encompassing", Kha'Zix and Nidalee are balanced, as in gold they are both solid 50%.
ReplyDeleteSecond: Looked at my history, you are right. Sorry for the mistake.
Third: That's counting Platinum, Diamond, and Challenger, which have absolutely NOTHING to do with this tier list.
why does everyone think that the renekton ult moved him down A WHOLE TIER. it really didnt affect him that much and they buffed ult late game i think hes still the king of top lane.
ReplyDeleteShhhh... they must not know...
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say that, because most tourneys end up with your team going a team comp, and this tier list is solely for solo queue.
ReplyDeleteA tier list like this would work for tournaments: http://metalol.net/lists/otherLists/Ranked-5v5-All-tier-list.php
It's just with people like Trundle and the inclusion of the Jaximus, he just has such a problem against the top meta
ReplyDeleteAlthough not as much as others, and he's still almost op, which is why he's tier 1
ok so sejuani is tier one (really strong) and twitch is tier 2...how about nautilus god tier and quinn too while we are at it? INB4 a goldie shows up defending how almighty sejuani is (she is definitily one of the worst choices in the jungle in this meta)
ReplyDeleteTwitch is tier one
ReplyDeletewot the f is this logic? OK so now getting one kill every minute insead of clearing 2-3 camps is faster to stack ...WW is back to trash tier
ReplyDeleteAdd support Anivia.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that word means what you think it means.
ReplyDeleteOne more question, what tier list is more viable for competitive play?
ReplyDeleteI still think your missing out on how strong Rengar is in the jungle. He can build off of elder lizard/golem/feral flare for prefered game style and still do high damage with great carry dive potential.
ReplyDeleteOne more question what tier is "better" for competitive play?
ReplyDeleteSyndra support? Any ideas on how to play her support? I kinda failed playing her mid and i want to pick her up again, if possible...
ReplyDeleteWhat tier list is better for competitive play?
ReplyDeleteDepends. If you want solo queue, this site, nerfplz, is perfect.
ReplyDeleteIf you want regular PvP, the metalol solo queue tier list is the way to go, despite the label.
Every other tier list you need is in metalol or reignofgaming.
Tier 2 is still viable. I think he should be higher in the Tier, but Tier 1 is out of the question in the case of Bronze and Silver, which is pretty mich 2/3 of this list.
ReplyDeleteAnd while his build is fine (don't say FF for rengar, the other 2 are FAR better now), since most people are (mistakingly) still building him FF, he'll stay there for a while, but I won't be surprised of he starts rising in win rate.
Until then, tier 2 is fine.
Thanks. (=
ReplyDeleteAnd what about jungle Teemo? Reddit says that is viable, but...
ReplyDeleteWell, it's Reddit... (Sarcasm, I do not hate Reddit)
ReplyDeleteBut no, he's not really good in the meta right now, and his clear time is mediocre early on, if not bad. Tier 3 probably.
This is a fairly recent support Syndra guide that still works perfect for me.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/edisons-guide-to-support-syndra-season-4-366107
But.... Reddit said.....
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean my jungle viktor and syndra aren't good either??? This is madness!
Well considering I've hit Gold IV does that mean this tier list is less anchored towards me?
ReplyDeleteWhy is amumu God tier? He'll just get killed in the jungle by a Lee Sin or a Kha'zix. His late game can make up for his early, but if he gets counter jungled to heavily, it may cost the game.
ReplyDeleteWaiting for rankings to reflect the fact that Soraka is back to square one after the heal nerf.
ReplyDeletehis late game is just absolutely insane. also while he scales well with items hes also one of the less item dependent champs. even if he feeds he'll going into to team fights with a massive aoe snare which is devasting if done well.
ReplyDeleteSo strong ganks, with 3 means of CC, a strong teamfight presense and with hp scaling on her so she can build tanky and still deal out pretty good damage. Oh and a ranged mumu ult as well.
ReplyDeleteThat 51% win rate must mean nothing.
Pink taric is life, Pink taric is love.
ReplyDeleteNiche used as an adjective:pertaining to or intended for a market niche; having specific appeal. Both twitch and quinn have a very spesific appeal (twitch is a steathy little rat and quinn is ultra moble).
ReplyDeleteAdded Kha'Zix's Q isolation radius and it make him can't deal more damage to Lizard Elder when it can't be isolated again, that has indcreased the clear time
ReplyDeleteAlthough I don't think Kha'Zix is killed but actually it is a nerf
i thought soraka was steping down from god tier mid since the heal nerf
ReplyDeleteyou didn't mention fizz/karthus jungle. i know they are not to strong but atleast possible to play there
ReplyDeleteIf it's any consolation, both of those would be fun no matter what!
ReplyDeleteIt's still anchored towards you, don't worry. It's just champions that usually require skill will be more viable in gold.
ReplyDelete:) I was kiddin.
ReplyDeleteA champion with 3 forms of cc (mostly aoe) and a % health damage scaling will always be viable. Additionally, her kit allows her to both hard engage and hard escape (with a q that allows her to hope over a Baron wall after the rest of her own team has safely escaped).
ReplyDeleteSejuani just suffers from Early Game Syndrome; like Amumu or Diana, she is a god late game and in teamfights, you just have to get there. The likes of Lee Sin or Kha Zix will just try to beat you early game and snowball their team to a point where its too hard for Sej to catch up.
As amumu, I like to instruct my team "hey, that khaz may be at my red, be ready to come help for easy kill". More times than not we kill him. Amumu's team fight is ridiculous, he's a tank, he does good damage, and has an aoe cc and a single target cc. It's really not enough to just take a buff from him, you must be killing him in the jungle consistently.
ReplyDeleteyes, win the lane with fiora is hard like (give me a word in inglish for "difícil pra caral**" PT-BR-HU3), but she can win a few not tath much poppular top laners easily.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, her lane phase against a most comom top laner is pretty hard. To me the midle off the Tier 1 is fine enough :)
About the Kog's safe zone, i was talking in a Team Fight, in lane only a Cait or Ez can give him problems (the support is the most decicive factor to me), and his W farm is easy, i almost never got out farmed with him
her early game is strong agains a kennen, a jayce, an irelia... but they aren't the most popular picks righ now, so, if you compair with the most commom top laners, she doesn't have damage to trade with them
ReplyDeleteActually it used to make her sooo stronger :P
ReplyDeleteRengar should be in tier 1/god I swear after two buffs he is so op
ReplyDeleteEmerald Taric is closer to Shrek Fyi
ReplyDeleteBut Pink Taric is simply outrageous.
ReplyDeletethere is quite a few posable jungles that have been left that i play but i think this list is more for the most common picks.
ReplyDeleteTankwick with Flare is damn near unstoppable late game. He pretty much negates their ADC or the whole team has to spend great amount of resources controlling him.
ReplyDelete